Hello Everybody,
First post.
I camp a lot in tents but after spending three days straight in a tent in the rain at Dolly Sods I swore I'd make a change.
Here it is.
Bought it Wednesday.
Drove it home today.
1999 Ford E-250, 6 cylinder, 125K miles.
Was a home builders work van. Some slight surface rust.
Cargo doors a bit dinged up.
I'm planning on doing a full conversion. Most of the work I'll do myself but some will be beyond my abilities. I'm giving myself a deadline of no later than spring. Van won't fit into my small garage so that will affect how/when I can work on it.
I've been reading this and other conversion forums for a few weeks. It's been a huge help so far. Learned quite a lot already but there's still a lot I don't know. Counting on the pros who frequent this forum for some advice.
Advice like: The previous owner drilled some 3/4 inch holes in the floor for bolted down shelving. Whats the best way to cover these holes from underneath? Should I treat the metal edges of the holes before I start?
Thanks for your time, now and in the future.
WVvan
P.S. I'm thinking of call it "HAL the Van".
Why HAL? Well since my name is Dave....
Dave Bowman: Open the pod bay doors, HAL.
HAL: I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
First post.
I camp a lot in tents but after spending three days straight in a tent in the rain at Dolly Sods I swore I'd make a change.
Here it is.
Bought it Wednesday.
Drove it home today.
1999 Ford E-250, 6 cylinder, 125K miles.
Was a home builders work van. Some slight surface rust.
Cargo doors a bit dinged up.
I'm planning on doing a full conversion. Most of the work I'll do myself but some will be beyond my abilities. I'm giving myself a deadline of no later than spring. Van won't fit into my small garage so that will affect how/when I can work on it.
I've been reading this and other conversion forums for a few weeks. It's been a huge help so far. Learned quite a lot already but there's still a lot I don't know. Counting on the pros who frequent this forum for some advice.
Advice like: The previous owner drilled some 3/4 inch holes in the floor for bolted down shelving. Whats the best way to cover these holes from underneath? Should I treat the metal edges of the holes before I start?
Thanks for your time, now and in the future.
WVvan
P.S. I'm thinking of call it "HAL the Van".
Why HAL? Well since my name is Dave....
Dave Bowman: Open the pod bay doors, HAL.
HAL: I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Heater Fuel Tank continued:
Time for some test fittings of components.
Here's the view under the van with the correct fuel hose attached to the fuel inlet. This is the one with the 45 degree angle.
The hose must be raised to this angle to mate with the fuel tank inlet.
The hose will have to be cut to fit. To get it right I'll install the brackets first so I'll know just where the tank will be positioned. Use the rear most of the two underfloor supports as a mounting point for one of the brackets. This photo, like several others, was taken with me on my back looking straight up. Hopefully it's not too confusing.
Use the bracket as a guide and drill holes for two 5/16" bolts
Bolt up the bracket.
The second bracket will take some extra work. If you look at the above photos you can see there is a ridge that runs under the van at a right angle to the underfloor supports. It's about 1-1/8" high.
I was looking around the basement for something to make a bracket mount out of when I noticed some leftovers from the sofa-bed construction. These pieces of perforated square tube stock.
The underfloor support is around 2-3/4" high.
Since the tube stock is 1 inch square some cutting and trimming is in order. The short sections will be used to raise the longer section so it can straddle the underfloor ridge.
This is how it will be assembled. The bottom piece on each side was trimmed to be 3/4" high. The mount height now matches the height of the underfloor support the first bracket is attached to.
The holes on the tank bracket didn't match up with the holes in the square tube stock. Had to drill the stock to match the bracket.
Tape the sections together and use that to mark out the drill holes.
Drill the two new holes for the second bracket. Unbolt the first bracket and rustproof both sets of new holes.
Assemble the mounting pieces. Since I was working upside down I had to use the masking tape to hold the left hand pieces in place while I bolted on the other pieces.
Here's how the top of the bolts look from inside the van. Up to now I was finger tightening the nuts on the bolts but I'll need some help to really tighten them down.
Use the same Silicone II sealant I used before. Apply it under both the washer and bolt head to stop water infiltration from underneath.
For the next step I'll be under the van and someone needs to be in the van. When it comes to holding a wrench the cats are worthless. They always use the same lame excuse about not having an opposable thumbs. Luckily I have a friendly neighbor who's always ready to help out if needed. Problem is he's not the most mechanically inclined so a little extra prep work is in order. Before starting I labeled the two bolts "1" and "2". I told him I'd yell out a number then he'd put the wrench on that numbered bolt and yell the number back.
So after a shouted series of "1..1", "2...2", "1..1", "2...2", we got everything tightened down. By the way my aforementioned neighbor is a college professor who teaches philosophy. His smarts lie in a different direction.
A couple of notes. The two short sections of square tube stock that I trimmed down to 3/4" inch high should be placed so the cut edge is against the underside of the floor. If the cut edge was placed the other direction, against another piece of square stock, as the bolts were tightened the edges might spread and it would slip over the second piece.
Since the square stock had to be drilled to align with the bracket holes there is a spacing difference between it's left and right edge. Be sure to mark it so you know which is which and use accordingly. Found this one out the hard way.
Tested the new mounting by grabbing hold of it and seeing if I could get the van rocking without it feeling loose. I could and it didn't.
continued -
Time for some test fittings of components.
Here's the view under the van with the correct fuel hose attached to the fuel inlet. This is the one with the 45 degree angle.
The hose must be raised to this angle to mate with the fuel tank inlet.
The hose will have to be cut to fit. To get it right I'll install the brackets first so I'll know just where the tank will be positioned. Use the rear most of the two underfloor supports as a mounting point for one of the brackets. This photo, like several others, was taken with me on my back looking straight up. Hopefully it's not too confusing.
Use the bracket as a guide and drill holes for two 5/16" bolts
Bolt up the bracket.
The second bracket will take some extra work. If you look at the above photos you can see there is a ridge that runs under the van at a right angle to the underfloor supports. It's about 1-1/8" high.
I was looking around the basement for something to make a bracket mount out of when I noticed some leftovers from the sofa-bed construction. These pieces of perforated square tube stock.
The underfloor support is around 2-3/4" high.
Since the tube stock is 1 inch square some cutting and trimming is in order. The short sections will be used to raise the longer section so it can straddle the underfloor ridge.
This is how it will be assembled. The bottom piece on each side was trimmed to be 3/4" high. The mount height now matches the height of the underfloor support the first bracket is attached to.
The holes on the tank bracket didn't match up with the holes in the square tube stock. Had to drill the stock to match the bracket.
Tape the sections together and use that to mark out the drill holes.
Drill the two new holes for the second bracket. Unbolt the first bracket and rustproof both sets of new holes.
Assemble the mounting pieces. Since I was working upside down I had to use the masking tape to hold the left hand pieces in place while I bolted on the other pieces.
Here's how the top of the bolts look from inside the van. Up to now I was finger tightening the nuts on the bolts but I'll need some help to really tighten them down.
Use the same Silicone II sealant I used before. Apply it under both the washer and bolt head to stop water infiltration from underneath.
For the next step I'll be under the van and someone needs to be in the van. When it comes to holding a wrench the cats are worthless. They always use the same lame excuse about not having an opposable thumbs. Luckily I have a friendly neighbor who's always ready to help out if needed. Problem is he's not the most mechanically inclined so a little extra prep work is in order. Before starting I labeled the two bolts "1" and "2". I told him I'd yell out a number then he'd put the wrench on that numbered bolt and yell the number back.
So after a shouted series of "1..1", "2...2", "1..1", "2...2", we got everything tightened down. By the way my aforementioned neighbor is a college professor who teaches philosophy. His smarts lie in a different direction.
A couple of notes. The two short sections of square tube stock that I trimmed down to 3/4" inch high should be placed so the cut edge is against the underside of the floor. If the cut edge was placed the other direction, against another piece of square stock, as the bolts were tightened the edges might spread and it would slip over the second piece.
Since the square stock had to be drilled to align with the bracket holes there is a spacing difference between it's left and right edge. Be sure to mark it so you know which is which and use accordingly. Found this one out the hard way.
Tested the new mounting by grabbing hold of it and seeing if I could get the van rocking without it feeling loose. I could and it didn't.
continued -
Heater Fuel Tank continued:
With the fuel inlet mounted on the van, time to get the final measurements and order the fuel tank.
There is one thing I hadn't mentioned before and that was the capacity of the tank I was planning on getting. The available length for the tank, shown in the drawing I posted before (click to enlarge), would be up to 47 inches.
I'd previously decided on a 8 inch diameter tank. According to the Coyote Gear web site a 44" long tank is the largest one that would fit in that space. A tank that size will hold 10 gallons.
So I could install a tank up to 10 gallons in size but how big do I really need? I'll be using a Webasto Airtop 2000. The Webasto web page for Airtop 2000 lists fuel consumption as 0.12 - 0.24 liters per hour. That converts to 0.03 - 0.06 gallons per hour. If you take the average of the two you get .045 g/h. Multiply that by 24 hours and you get 1.08 gallons per day. That of course is assuming you're running the heater 24 hours each day.
So using a 1 gallon a day as a rough guideline consider how I plan to use the van. My main use will be for camping. Actually it's how I've already been using the van since I bought it. Most of my camping trips are 3 to 4 days. So add an extra day for good measure and you get a 5 gallon fuel tank. Since the fuel inlet will be at a 30 degree angle the tank can't be filled to the top. So go ahead and order a 6 gallon tank to make up for that lost volume at the top of the tank.
I'd always get to this point in my calculations and then look at the Coyote Gear price list and start this internal monologue.
"Hey look, the 7 gallon tank is the exact same price as a 6 gallon tank. What the heck. Might as well order the 7 gallon. It's a free extra gallon"
"Well the 8 gallon tank is only $20 more than the 7 gallon tank. $20 isn't that much. I might as well get the 8 gallon."
"But you know the 9 gallon tank is only $10 more than 8 gallon tank. $10 is even less than $20. I need to get that bigger tank."
"If I'm getting the 9 gallon I might as well get the biggest tank that can fit. Yeah, I need that 10 gallon tank! And now I can order the internal baffles!!!!"
At this point I'd start grunting like Tim Allen and yelling "More Power!!!" and the cats would scatter. Eventually I'd calm down and realize that I won't need that much fuel and that it would just be extra weight. Then a couple of days later I'd look over my calculations and it would start all over again.
The last decisions were about what extras I wanted on the tank. I went for two 1/4" NPT female bungs. One bung for the fuel outlet hose and the other for the tank vent. I also ordered a Sending Unit Mounting Platform. This is where the sending unit for the fuel gauge will go.
By the way I just checked the Coyote Gear web site while writing this up and found out that they now offer 1/8" bungs and Sending Unit Mounting Platforms already configured. Two things I'd have ordered if they had been available. And I could have gotten a bigger tank for just a few more dollars.
After taking some more measurements under the van here's the drawing for the tank I came up with. It's the same one I emailed to Coyote Gear.
They had a question about the filler neck since I didn't want a gas cap. I explained that it would attached to a 1-1/2" ID fuel hose and that was it. It cost $228
Price breakdown:
Description Unit price Qty Amount
8x30 Base Tank with Brackets $149.00 1 $149.00
3" Diameter Sending unit Platform $26.00 1 $26.00
Extra 1/4NPT (2) Total $14.00 1 $14.00
Custom Filler Pipe 1.5 x 1.5 $20.00 1 $20.00
Subtotal $209.00
Shipping and handling $19.00
Total $228.00 USD
A week and a half later it was delivered.
As you can see they did an excellent job of packing.
It's just how I ordered it.
It comes with these two powder coated mounting brackets.
Almost looks too nice to hide under the van.
continued -
With the fuel inlet mounted on the van, time to get the final measurements and order the fuel tank.
There is one thing I hadn't mentioned before and that was the capacity of the tank I was planning on getting. The available length for the tank, shown in the drawing I posted before (click to enlarge), would be up to 47 inches.
I'd previously decided on a 8 inch diameter tank. According to the Coyote Gear web site a 44" long tank is the largest one that would fit in that space. A tank that size will hold 10 gallons.
So I could install a tank up to 10 gallons in size but how big do I really need? I'll be using a Webasto Airtop 2000. The Webasto web page for Airtop 2000 lists fuel consumption as 0.12 - 0.24 liters per hour. That converts to 0.03 - 0.06 gallons per hour. If you take the average of the two you get .045 g/h. Multiply that by 24 hours and you get 1.08 gallons per day. That of course is assuming you're running the heater 24 hours each day.
So using a 1 gallon a day as a rough guideline consider how I plan to use the van. My main use will be for camping. Actually it's how I've already been using the van since I bought it. Most of my camping trips are 3 to 4 days. So add an extra day for good measure and you get a 5 gallon fuel tank. Since the fuel inlet will be at a 30 degree angle the tank can't be filled to the top. So go ahead and order a 6 gallon tank to make up for that lost volume at the top of the tank.
I'd always get to this point in my calculations and then look at the Coyote Gear price list and start this internal monologue.
"Hey look, the 7 gallon tank is the exact same price as a 6 gallon tank. What the heck. Might as well order the 7 gallon. It's a free extra gallon"
"Well the 8 gallon tank is only $20 more than the 7 gallon tank. $20 isn't that much. I might as well get the 8 gallon."
"But you know the 9 gallon tank is only $10 more than 8 gallon tank. $10 is even less than $20. I need to get that bigger tank."
"If I'm getting the 9 gallon I might as well get the biggest tank that can fit. Yeah, I need that 10 gallon tank! And now I can order the internal baffles!!!!"
At this point I'd start grunting like Tim Allen and yelling "More Power!!!" and the cats would scatter. Eventually I'd calm down and realize that I won't need that much fuel and that it would just be extra weight. Then a couple of days later I'd look over my calculations and it would start all over again.
The last decisions were about what extras I wanted on the tank. I went for two 1/4" NPT female bungs. One bung for the fuel outlet hose and the other for the tank vent. I also ordered a Sending Unit Mounting Platform. This is where the sending unit for the fuel gauge will go.
By the way I just checked the Coyote Gear web site while writing this up and found out that they now offer 1/8" bungs and Sending Unit Mounting Platforms already configured. Two things I'd have ordered if they had been available. And I could have gotten a bigger tank for just a few more dollars.
After taking some more measurements under the van here's the drawing for the tank I came up with. It's the same one I emailed to Coyote Gear.
They had a question about the filler neck since I didn't want a gas cap. I explained that it would attached to a 1-1/2" ID fuel hose and that was it. It cost $228
Price breakdown:
Description Unit price Qty Amount
8x30 Base Tank with Brackets $149.00 1 $149.00
3" Diameter Sending unit Platform $26.00 1 $26.00
Extra 1/4NPT (2) Total $14.00 1 $14.00
Custom Filler Pipe 1.5 x 1.5 $20.00 1 $20.00
Subtotal $209.00
Shipping and handling $19.00
Total $228.00 USD
A week and a half later it was delivered.
As you can see they did an excellent job of packing.
It's just how I ordered it.
It comes with these two powder coated mounting brackets.
Almost looks too nice to hide under the van.
continued -
Heater Fuel Tank continued:
With the rustproofing done, attach the fuel inlet.
To waterproof around the edge of the fuel inlet I'm using GE Silicone II Clear Gutter/Flashing. Be sure to use Silicone "II" and not "I". Silicone II caulk is what's called a "neutral cure" silicone, which means no acids are released during the curing process. The acid kind will cause the metal to rust.
Have some paint thinner and rags on hand to help with clean up. Also have whatever tools you'll need to tighten the screws with you. Don't want to be rummaging around for tools after you've started with the silicone.
Apply a bead of silicone to the outside of the hole. I'm not being shy about applying it. You can always wipe off the excess.
Do the same to fuel inlet back plate.
Mate the fuel inlet to the side of the van. Press hard.
The Silicone II has a tooling time of 6 to 8 minutes. "Tooling time" is the amount of time you have to work, smooth, tool or otherwise manipulate the silicone caulk once it's applied.
Because of the tooling time factor I didn't bother cleaning anything up but went right ahead and inserted the screws into place. It's going to get messy but nothing that can't be taken care of later.
From inside the rocker panel you can see that the silicone has nicely filled the gap around the edge of the fuel inlet.
Put the nuts on the stainless steel screws and tighten them down. I'm using two nuts and a lock washer on each screw to secure them in place.
Take the paint thinner and rags and start cleaning up. This is the "after" picture. Had to do a little extra work to get the screw holes and screw heads clean of the excess silicone.
At this point I finally got around to measuring the actual width of the rocker panel just below the floor level. If you remember from my earlier posting where I clamped the T-square to the side of the van and used the tape measure to plot out the side of the van I estimated this to be 6.17". From this direct measurement it's around 5-7/8". All things considered I'd say I got that one pretty close.
continued -
With the rustproofing done, attach the fuel inlet.
To waterproof around the edge of the fuel inlet I'm using GE Silicone II Clear Gutter/Flashing. Be sure to use Silicone "II" and not "I". Silicone II caulk is what's called a "neutral cure" silicone, which means no acids are released during the curing process. The acid kind will cause the metal to rust.
Have some paint thinner and rags on hand to help with clean up. Also have whatever tools you'll need to tighten the screws with you. Don't want to be rummaging around for tools after you've started with the silicone.
Apply a bead of silicone to the outside of the hole. I'm not being shy about applying it. You can always wipe off the excess.
Do the same to fuel inlet back plate.
Mate the fuel inlet to the side of the van. Press hard.
The Silicone II has a tooling time of 6 to 8 minutes. "Tooling time" is the amount of time you have to work, smooth, tool or otherwise manipulate the silicone caulk once it's applied.
Because of the tooling time factor I didn't bother cleaning anything up but went right ahead and inserted the screws into place. It's going to get messy but nothing that can't be taken care of later.
From inside the rocker panel you can see that the silicone has nicely filled the gap around the edge of the fuel inlet.
Put the nuts on the stainless steel screws and tighten them down. I'm using two nuts and a lock washer on each screw to secure them in place.
Take the paint thinner and rags and start cleaning up. This is the "after" picture. Had to do a little extra work to get the screw holes and screw heads clean of the excess silicone.
At this point I finally got around to measuring the actual width of the rocker panel just below the floor level. If you remember from my earlier posting where I clamped the T-square to the side of the van and used the tape measure to plot out the side of the van I estimated this to be 6.17". From this direct measurement it's around 5-7/8". All things considered I'd say I got that one pretty close.
continued -
Heater Fuel Tank continued:
With the fuel inlet flush against the side of the van, drill holes for the mounting screws. The best way I could come up with making the fuel inlet "level" was to use the groove that runs along the side of the van as a guide. Measure from the middle point of the groove to the screw hole on each side.
Use sheet metal screws to hold the fuel inlet in place.
Here's the cutout size.
Test fit the fuel hose onto the fuel inlet. Use a T-Bevel to get the angle of the hose.
The hose is at an angle of 65 degrees
For a formed hose with a 45 degree angle and the tank fuel inlet at 30 degrees this measurement should be at 75 degrees. The hose will have to be raised to mate the fuel inlet to the fuel tank. Since the hose is flexible this won't be a problem, except for this.
The top of the hose is already close to the cutout edge. Don't want the hose to rub so I'll enlarge the cutout
Brought back the saber saw to enlarge the hole but there wasn't enough room to do a clean job of it. Finished up by using a hacksaw blade holder. Saw upward on the outer edges of the hole.
Use a hammer to beat the edge upward.
Here's the screws I'll use to attach the fuel inlet to the side of the van. They are Phillips head, stainless steel 10-24 machine screws. Picked them up at Lowe's.
Now that I know the screw holes are at the correct size, time for some rustproofing. Tape off the fuel inlet hole. Check that the face plate will cover the rustproofed area.
I use a product called Rust Bullet.
continued -
With the fuel inlet flush against the side of the van, drill holes for the mounting screws. The best way I could come up with making the fuel inlet "level" was to use the groove that runs along the side of the van as a guide. Measure from the middle point of the groove to the screw hole on each side.
Use sheet metal screws to hold the fuel inlet in place.
Here's the cutout size.
Test fit the fuel hose onto the fuel inlet. Use a T-Bevel to get the angle of the hose.
The hose is at an angle of 65 degrees
For a formed hose with a 45 degree angle and the tank fuel inlet at 30 degrees this measurement should be at 75 degrees. The hose will have to be raised to mate the fuel inlet to the fuel tank. Since the hose is flexible this won't be a problem, except for this.
The top of the hose is already close to the cutout edge. Don't want the hose to rub so I'll enlarge the cutout
Brought back the saber saw to enlarge the hole but there wasn't enough room to do a clean job of it. Finished up by using a hacksaw blade holder. Saw upward on the outer edges of the hole.
Use a hammer to beat the edge upward.
Here's the screws I'll use to attach the fuel inlet to the side of the van. They are Phillips head, stainless steel 10-24 machine screws. Picked them up at Lowe's.
Now that I know the screw holes are at the correct size, time for some rustproofing. Tape off the fuel inlet hole. Check that the face plate will cover the rustproofed area.
I use a product called Rust Bullet.
continued -
Heater Fuel Tank continued:
With the rocker panel now open do some test fittings using the fuel hose and fuel inlet.
Mistake 1: I should have covered the face of the fuel inlet with masking tape to prevent scratching it's nice shiny face. I didn't scratch it but I was lucky.
The 1-3/4" gap between the outer skin and the floor level allows the fuel inlet to be positioned higher than originally planned. Mounting the fuel inlet higher increases the slope of the hose towards the tank which will improve the flow when filling the tank. Don't mount it so high that the hose rubs against the floor edge.
Mark out a position for the fuel inlet then drill a small hole to carry this to the outside of the van.
Using the small hole, line up the fuel inlet on the outside of the van. Check look and fit.
I thought it looked better just a little bit lower. Drilled new centering hole.
Point Of No Return
I bought a 1-3/4" bimetal hole saw just for this project. I already had some general purpose hole saws but wanted a good clean cut. Use the new centering hole and start drilling.
Wonder if I'll ever use it again.
Use a curved file to take off the sharp edge of the hole.
The view through the hole into the undervan.
Test fit of the fuel inlet.
There's a problem. The inlet won't sit flat.
If you look closely at the back of the fuel inlet you'll see this very slight arc where the tube and plate back meet. The 1-3/4" matches the tube diameter but is not enough to allow the arc to sit flat.
Need to increase the hole size but not by much. Use a rotary tool with grinding stone bit. Going freehand like this you have to be careful to keep the hole circular and not to start to make it oblong.
There isn't a lot of room between the screw holes and the edge of the hole so don't want to take off any more material than I have to. Just grind a little then do a test fit. Repeat until the inlet is flush.
By the end of the day my tool pile had really grown. One tool at a time.
Tiger had supervisor duty that day.
continued -
With the rocker panel now open do some test fittings using the fuel hose and fuel inlet.
Mistake 1: I should have covered the face of the fuel inlet with masking tape to prevent scratching it's nice shiny face. I didn't scratch it but I was lucky.
The 1-3/4" gap between the outer skin and the floor level allows the fuel inlet to be positioned higher than originally planned. Mounting the fuel inlet higher increases the slope of the hose towards the tank which will improve the flow when filling the tank. Don't mount it so high that the hose rubs against the floor edge.
Mark out a position for the fuel inlet then drill a small hole to carry this to the outside of the van.
Using the small hole, line up the fuel inlet on the outside of the van. Check look and fit.
I thought it looked better just a little bit lower. Drilled new centering hole.
Point Of No Return
I bought a 1-3/4" bimetal hole saw just for this project. I already had some general purpose hole saws but wanted a good clean cut. Use the new centering hole and start drilling.
Wonder if I'll ever use it again.
Use a curved file to take off the sharp edge of the hole.
The view through the hole into the undervan.
Test fit of the fuel inlet.
There's a problem. The inlet won't sit flat.
If you look closely at the back of the fuel inlet you'll see this very slight arc where the tube and plate back meet. The 1-3/4" matches the tube diameter but is not enough to allow the arc to sit flat.
Need to increase the hole size but not by much. Use a rotary tool with grinding stone bit. Going freehand like this you have to be careful to keep the hole circular and not to start to make it oblong.
There isn't a lot of room between the screw holes and the edge of the hole so don't want to take off any more material than I have to. Just grind a little then do a test fit. Repeat until the inlet is flush.
By the end of the day my tool pile had really grown. One tool at a time.
Tiger had supervisor duty that day.
continued -
Heater Fuel Tank continued:
I need to open up the rocker panel to see what's inside. The space between the two underfloor supports looks like a likely spot.
Stand up a tape measure and align it with the spot while under the van then get out from under and look at the side of the van. Imagine what it would look like with the fuel inlet above the tape measure. Be sure to like the location.
Here's the tools I'll be using. Goggles are most important since you'll be laying on your back drilling and cutting above your head. Way too easy for a piece of debris to get inside your eye without them.
I'll also be using a 1-1/2" ID rubber fuel hose made by Gates. Ignore the part number you can see since I accidentally ordered the wrong hose. The one you see in these pictures has a 90 degree bend. It should have been this one Gates - Angled Fuel Fill Hose, 45 degree Angle, 1-1/2" ID (24710) Currently around $20 with shipping.
I've since corrected my mistake. By the way if anyone needs a 1-1/2" ID fuel hose with a 90 degree bend, let me know. I'll make you a good deal.
Marking out the hole to cut was fairly easy. The hole will have to be large enough to allow my hand to fit around the hose to get inside the rocker panel to do work. Put the rubber fuel hose to the side of the rocker panel then move my hand around it. Mark out a square.
Will make the cuts with my saber saw. But first need a pilot hole. Make sure the hole will be larger than the saw blade.
Was able to make the complete cut with just the one pilot hole. I'll clean it up later.
Take a look inside the rocker panel with the help of my camera.
The view looking right toward the front of the van. The outside skin of the van is on the left. Above is the floor level. In front is the "B" pillar. No signs of damage.
The view to the left is another story.
That kind of damage is to be expected when the end of the rocker panel used to look like this.
Hopefully I've got that taken care of so it won't get any worse.
The view looking up. The outer skin is along the bottom of the picture.
Where the outside skin and the inside of the van meets it looks like there is a bead of some kind of foam insulation or sealant.
The upward gap continues for about a foot from the floor level.
The width of the gap between the corner of the floor level and the outer skin is around 1-3/4"
With these new measurements I can update the cut-away view drawing.
continued -
I need to open up the rocker panel to see what's inside. The space between the two underfloor supports looks like a likely spot.
Stand up a tape measure and align it with the spot while under the van then get out from under and look at the side of the van. Imagine what it would look like with the fuel inlet above the tape measure. Be sure to like the location.
Here's the tools I'll be using. Goggles are most important since you'll be laying on your back drilling and cutting above your head. Way too easy for a piece of debris to get inside your eye without them.
I'll also be using a 1-1/2" ID rubber fuel hose made by Gates. Ignore the part number you can see since I accidentally ordered the wrong hose. The one you see in these pictures has a 90 degree bend. It should have been this one Gates - Angled Fuel Fill Hose, 45 degree Angle, 1-1/2" ID (24710) Currently around $20 with shipping.
I've since corrected my mistake. By the way if anyone needs a 1-1/2" ID fuel hose with a 90 degree bend, let me know. I'll make you a good deal.
Marking out the hole to cut was fairly easy. The hole will have to be large enough to allow my hand to fit around the hose to get inside the rocker panel to do work. Put the rubber fuel hose to the side of the rocker panel then move my hand around it. Mark out a square.
Will make the cuts with my saber saw. But first need a pilot hole. Make sure the hole will be larger than the saw blade.
Was able to make the complete cut with just the one pilot hole. I'll clean it up later.
Take a look inside the rocker panel with the help of my camera.
The view looking right toward the front of the van. The outside skin of the van is on the left. Above is the floor level. In front is the "B" pillar. No signs of damage.
The view to the left is another story.
That kind of damage is to be expected when the end of the rocker panel used to look like this.
Hopefully I've got that taken care of so it won't get any worse.
The view looking up. The outer skin is along the bottom of the picture.
Where the outside skin and the inside of the van meets it looks like there is a bead of some kind of foam insulation or sealant.
The upward gap continues for about a foot from the floor level.
The width of the gap between the corner of the floor level and the outer skin is around 1-3/4"
With these new measurements I can update the cut-away view drawing.
continued -
Heater Fuel Tank continued:
Now that I have a near complete set of measurements it's time to decide on some equipment. Diyvanner had already done the research so I just followed his lead. For the fuel inlet that will go through the side of the van I'll use a Sea Dog Stainless Steel Angled Hose Deck Fill. Model# 351521. Made for 1-1/2" fuel hose with "Diesel" written on the face plate.
It's currently around $40.
I couldn't find all the dimensions I needed on-line so contacted the company to get these additional two.
I'm assuming that I can place the fuel inlet on the side of the van no higher than the level of the floor.
The fuel inlet outlet end has a 30 degree slope. I doubled checked the side of the van where the inlet would be mounted and and it has a slope from vertical of around 20 degrees. Mounting the inlet so it's face is flush with the side of the van will now give a slope of 10 degrees to the outlet end.
The fuel tank will be made by Coyote Gear. They make custom built spun aluminum tanks in 5 different diameters. I think a tank with a diameter of either 8" or 10" will be best. To help decide create scaled drawings with each size.
10" tank
8" tank
While the 10" tank would fit OK I didn't like that it would extend below the bottom edge of the van. Also there isn't much room for error around the sides of the tank in case I made a measuring mistake, and it's getting close to the emergency brake cable. So I decided on the 8" tank.
Next decision was on where to place the fuel inlet on the tank. If I put it on the top of the tank it looks like the rubber fuel hose that would connect the fuel inlet to the tank would end up with a negative slope away from the tank.
The tank could be lowered but for simplicity's sake I wanted to use one of the under floor supports as a mounting point.
If I move the fuel tank inlet to where it's 30 degrees from vertical a formed rubber fuel hose with a 45 degree angled bend should fit with just a little extra bending. I'd prefer that the fuel line had more of a slope towards the tank. The tank will probably have to be filled slowly.
So a 8" diameter fuel tank with a fuel inlet 30 degrees from vertical is the type of fuel tank I'm going to order.*
Before placing an order for the fuel tank I'll have to open up the rocker panel so there's absolutely no doubt about what's inside. Since it is custom made tank I won't get a second chance.
NOTE*: I have over simplified the design process for the fuel tank. I actually spent weeks considered other mounting options and worked out a bunch of different fuel inlet angles but I didn't want this post to drag on forever. While writing up the descriptions of the different things I do on this RV build I'm never quite sure where informative stops and plain old boring begins. At least I hope it's informative.
continued -
Now that I have a near complete set of measurements it's time to decide on some equipment. Diyvanner had already done the research so I just followed his lead. For the fuel inlet that will go through the side of the van I'll use a Sea Dog Stainless Steel Angled Hose Deck Fill. Model# 351521. Made for 1-1/2" fuel hose with "Diesel" written on the face plate.
It's currently around $40.
I couldn't find all the dimensions I needed on-line so contacted the company to get these additional two.
I'm assuming that I can place the fuel inlet on the side of the van no higher than the level of the floor.
The fuel inlet outlet end has a 30 degree slope. I doubled checked the side of the van where the inlet would be mounted and and it has a slope from vertical of around 20 degrees. Mounting the inlet so it's face is flush with the side of the van will now give a slope of 10 degrees to the outlet end.
The fuel tank will be made by Coyote Gear. They make custom built spun aluminum tanks in 5 different diameters. I think a tank with a diameter of either 8" or 10" will be best. To help decide create scaled drawings with each size.
10" tank
8" tank
While the 10" tank would fit OK I didn't like that it would extend below the bottom edge of the van. Also there isn't much room for error around the sides of the tank in case I made a measuring mistake, and it's getting close to the emergency brake cable. So I decided on the 8" tank.
Next decision was on where to place the fuel inlet on the tank. If I put it on the top of the tank it looks like the rubber fuel hose that would connect the fuel inlet to the tank would end up with a negative slope away from the tank.
The tank could be lowered but for simplicity's sake I wanted to use one of the under floor supports as a mounting point.
If I move the fuel tank inlet to where it's 30 degrees from vertical a formed rubber fuel hose with a 45 degree angled bend should fit with just a little extra bending. I'd prefer that the fuel line had more of a slope towards the tank. The tank will probably have to be filled slowly.
So a 8" diameter fuel tank with a fuel inlet 30 degrees from vertical is the type of fuel tank I'm going to order.*
Before placing an order for the fuel tank I'll have to open up the rocker panel so there's absolutely no doubt about what's inside. Since it is custom made tank I won't get a second chance.
NOTE*: I have over simplified the design process for the fuel tank. I actually spent weeks considered other mounting options and worked out a bunch of different fuel inlet angles but I didn't want this post to drag on forever. While writing up the descriptions of the different things I do on this RV build I'm never quite sure where informative stops and plain old boring begins. At least I hope it's informative.
continued -
You're welcome AsheGuy.
The one RV/trailer places I stopped at to buy the J-pin showed me the same hitch tightener that McZippie uses. They said that was all they carried.
Heater fuel tank installation continued -
Lately I've been spending so much time below the van getting measurements, working, painting on rustproofing and other things that I no longer think of it simply as the space under the van. It is now "The Undervan".
With the undervan measurements on hand I now needed the side dimensions. The inlet for the fuel tank will go through the side of the van. I don't know where the rocker panel ends and the side of the van begins or even if this distinction holds with a van. I couldn't find any kind of a cut-away diagram.
So I need to know the width of the side of the van in relation to outer edge of the undervan on the drivers side. I'll be using a drywall T-square, clamp and tape measure.
No we haven't had a freak snowstorm in WV. These pictures are from when I first did this back in February.
Clamp on the T-square using the small lip at the bottom of the rocker pane as an anchor point.
The cross part of the T-square is against the inside edge of the rocker panel (aka the outer edge of the driver's side undervan).
With what I think of as the upright part of the T-square now extending outward from the van I have a graduated baseline for measurements.
Take the tape measure and and find the distance from the top edge of the T-square to the edge of the van. Write it down.
Using graduations on the T-square as a guide, move the tape measure a half inch farther left. Then get the distance from the edge to the van. (In the picture it's moved an inch but you get the idea.)
Keep this up until you run out of van.
As usual I was under direct supervision.
Take all the measurements and plot out a cross section of the rocker panel.
The line on the left that represents the outer skin of the rocker panel is far from exact but it is close enough for my purposes. You can see a measurement of 6.17" under the line. If you extend the line of the floor to the left into the rocker panel space this what the width should be at this point.
But that was still the big unknown. What's really inside the rocker panel? (Don't bother telling me. I now know.) Even without that information I can use this drawing and the one from the previous post for sketching up different fuel tank and inlet configurations.
continued:
The one RV/trailer places I stopped at to buy the J-pin showed me the same hitch tightener that McZippie uses. They said that was all they carried.
Heater fuel tank installation continued -
Lately I've been spending so much time below the van getting measurements, working, painting on rustproofing and other things that I no longer think of it simply as the space under the van. It is now "The Undervan".
With the undervan measurements on hand I now needed the side dimensions. The inlet for the fuel tank will go through the side of the van. I don't know where the rocker panel ends and the side of the van begins or even if this distinction holds with a van. I couldn't find any kind of a cut-away diagram.
So I need to know the width of the side of the van in relation to outer edge of the undervan on the drivers side. I'll be using a drywall T-square, clamp and tape measure.
No we haven't had a freak snowstorm in WV. These pictures are from when I first did this back in February.
Clamp on the T-square using the small lip at the bottom of the rocker pane as an anchor point.
The cross part of the T-square is against the inside edge of the rocker panel (aka the outer edge of the driver's side undervan).
With what I think of as the upright part of the T-square now extending outward from the van I have a graduated baseline for measurements.
Take the tape measure and and find the distance from the top edge of the T-square to the edge of the van. Write it down.
Using graduations on the T-square as a guide, move the tape measure a half inch farther left. Then get the distance from the edge to the van. (In the picture it's moved an inch but you get the idea.)
Keep this up until you run out of van.
As usual I was under direct supervision.
Take all the measurements and plot out a cross section of the rocker panel.
The line on the left that represents the outer skin of the rocker panel is far from exact but it is close enough for my purposes. You can see a measurement of 6.17" under the line. If you extend the line of the floor to the left into the rocker panel space this what the width should be at this point.
But that was still the big unknown. What's really inside the rocker panel? (Don't bother telling me. I now know.) Even without that information I can use this drawing and the one from the previous post for sketching up different fuel tank and inlet configurations.
continued:
AsheGuy wrote:WVvan wrote:Bingo, RV.net comes through again. This is exactly what I wished that I had for silencing my trailer hitch.
To secure the bike rack to the trailer hitch I'm using Draw-Tite J-Pin Anti-Rattle Lockset for 2 inch Receivers. Currently around $26.
My bike rack came with a hitch pin like this that secures it with a nut within the bike rack that the pin screws into for silent running. However, when I use the regular trailer hitch with just a plain pin, the noise drives me up the wall especially when there isn't much tongue weight. I need this more for my SUV then the LTV since I more often pull a small utility trailer with it.
I never realized something was on the market for the more generic use. I just ordered one from Amazon. Thank you WVvan.
I use these Hitch tighteners. They take out 'all' movement. clicky
I'm way behind on my RV conversion but on the bright side the van is still available to fill to the ceiling with "stuff that needs hauled".
I'm going to start work on the heating system for the van. This will be done in steps. The first step is the design and placement of the fuel tank. It's also the only step I've completed so far.
For the heater I bought a used Webasto Airtop 2000 on ebay for $411 Canadian.
Here is the Webasto label.
The Webasto is made in Germany so the label will need a little translating. According to the Google translator "Brennstoff" means fuel. It's listed as "Diesel" which is the same in both languages. If this was a gasoline model heater it would read "Benzin" instead.
Notice the legend "Inbetriebnahmejahr" at the bottom and to the right of it you can see small spaces where the label has been removed. The word translates as "commissioning year". Normally to the right there would three two digit sequential numbers which represent when this particular heater was manufactured. Obviously someone has scratched off the numbers so you won't know how old the heater really is.
No problem. Even an old heater is OK. The Webasto's have a reputation for reliability and longevity. A classic case of the phrase "German Engineering". Even if there is a problem, replacement parts are readily available.
I've been asked why I didn't just didn't get a gasoline model since this is a gas van. A good used gas model Webasto is very hard to find. A new one goes for around $2000. So the difference between $400 for a diesel and $2000 for a gasoline model is the reason I'm going this route. It also gives me a chance to do something new.
All the previous information also applies to cab heaters made by Eberspรคcher. This is the main competition to Webasto. These are both German companies and have most of the market split between them. In America Eberspรคcher products are marketed under the Espar brand name.
I'll need a separate fuel tank on the van to hold the fuel for the diesel Webasto. Full credit for the fuel tank design I'll be using goes to Diyvanner. I couldn't have done this without his help. All the good ideas are his. The bad one's are all mine.
Diyvanner shared all of his design secrets but his installation was on a GMC van. Since mine is a Ford van I'll have to come up with all my own measurements and adaptations. First I'll have to figure out where to install the tank under the van. That involved a lot of laying under the van and making measurements.
I decided that the best place is on the driver's side of the van between the rocker panel and one of the two main frame beams. One consideration is the emergency brake cable that runs along the side of the frame beam.
There are also two cross pieces under the floor. This picture was taken while looking straight up under the van.
Next take a bunch of measurements.
Here's the result of all the measurements. The front of the van is to the right. The "gas inlet hose" in the drawing refers to van's gas inlet not what I'll be adding for the heater.
The fuel tank will be placed within this space.
continued:
I'm going to start work on the heating system for the van. This will be done in steps. The first step is the design and placement of the fuel tank. It's also the only step I've completed so far.
For the heater I bought a used Webasto Airtop 2000 on ebay for $411 Canadian.
Here is the Webasto label.
The Webasto is made in Germany so the label will need a little translating. According to the Google translator "Brennstoff" means fuel. It's listed as "Diesel" which is the same in both languages. If this was a gasoline model heater it would read "Benzin" instead.
Notice the legend "Inbetriebnahmejahr" at the bottom and to the right of it you can see small spaces where the label has been removed. The word translates as "commissioning year". Normally to the right there would three two digit sequential numbers which represent when this particular heater was manufactured. Obviously someone has scratched off the numbers so you won't know how old the heater really is.
No problem. Even an old heater is OK. The Webasto's have a reputation for reliability and longevity. A classic case of the phrase "German Engineering". Even if there is a problem, replacement parts are readily available.
I've been asked why I didn't just didn't get a gasoline model since this is a gas van. A good used gas model Webasto is very hard to find. A new one goes for around $2000. So the difference between $400 for a diesel and $2000 for a gasoline model is the reason I'm going this route. It also gives me a chance to do something new.
All the previous information also applies to cab heaters made by Eberspรคcher. This is the main competition to Webasto. These are both German companies and have most of the market split between them. In America Eberspรคcher products are marketed under the Espar brand name.
I'll need a separate fuel tank on the van to hold the fuel for the diesel Webasto. Full credit for the fuel tank design I'll be using goes to Diyvanner. I couldn't have done this without his help. All the good ideas are his. The bad one's are all mine.
Diyvanner shared all of his design secrets but his installation was on a GMC van. Since mine is a Ford van I'll have to come up with all my own measurements and adaptations. First I'll have to figure out where to install the tank under the van. That involved a lot of laying under the van and making measurements.
I decided that the best place is on the driver's side of the van between the rocker panel and one of the two main frame beams. One consideration is the emergency brake cable that runs along the side of the frame beam.
There are also two cross pieces under the floor. This picture was taken while looking straight up under the van.
Next take a bunch of measurements.
Here's the result of all the measurements. The front of the van is to the right. The "gas inlet hose" in the drawing refers to van's gas inlet not what I'll be adding for the heater.
The fuel tank will be placed within this space.
continued:
Two weekends ago.
Advantage of a "B" sized RV. Just keep moving it around till you hit a level spot.
Previously I'd installed a trailer hitch so I can haul my bike with me. Now for the bike rack.
I use a fold-down style bike rack with my other camping vehicle, Subaru Forester with the WVBIKE plates.
The fold-down rack wouldn't work so well on the van. I could open the doors with a bike on the folded down rack but couldn't safely climb in and out of the back of the van. Because of that I went with a swing-away style rack.
I bought the Surco DBR300 OSI Swing Away Hitch Mount Bike Rack, 2" Receiver, Up To 3 Bike Capacity.
It was $226.58 on Amazon ( free shipping).
There are a couple of design problems with this bike rack but nothing that can't be fixed.
The bike is secured in this top horizontal holder. There are spaces for three bikes. Put your bike into the "V" groove then just tighten down with the two threaded knobs. The round knob on the right has a lock. Once you have the bike tightened into place you can "unlock" the knob so that it spins free and doesn't loosen the bolt underneath.
Even secured by these two bolts the bike can still swing so I always add a strap wrapped around the bottom brace to keep it in place.
Here is how the swing-out part of the rack works.
There is a large bolt that holds the two halves of the rack together.
Loosen this bolt.
Then pull on the cable release.
That raises this spring pin which allows the front half of the rack to swing away.
The two halves pivot on this bolt.
As you swing the bike you'll quickly see that it can only go so far before the back tire meets the van.
Where the horizontal bike hold-down is attached to the bike rack is another pivot point. Pressing down on these two knobs allow the top to rotate.
You can rotate the top 90 degrees.
With the top hold-down in this new position you swing the rack until the bike is parallel to the side of the van.
That allows full access to the back of the van.
Now to the design problems with this particular bike rack. There are two. I don't like the locking knob as a security feature. It doesn't feel robust but compared to the second problem it's small potatoes.
Here's the main problem. The pivot bolt that secures the halves of the bike rack together.
All it would take is a thief and a wrench to remove this bolt then walk away with the front half of the bike rack with the bike still attached. Nothing to stop them.
Here's how I fixed it. Had a friend weld on two pieces of steel angle. One onto each half of the bike rack then drill a hole through both pieces.
Putting a lock through the holes secures both halves of the bike rack together so even if the bolt was removed the rack will stay together.
Adding a steel cable to the lock means I can run the cable through the bike which secures the bike to the rack without worrying about the quality of the locking knob.
There was one other modification that had made to this bike rack. I have a step bumper on the van which is wider than standard rear bumper. To compensate for this extra width the square tube part of the bike rack that slides into the trailer hitch had to be extended by 1-1/2". The local machine shop did it for $20. Good price.
To secure the bike rack to the trailer hitch I'm using Draw-Tite J-Pin Anti-Rattle Lockset for 2 inch Receivers. Currently around $26.
This J-pin is designed for 2" Receiver Style Hitches with 5/8" Pin Hole & 1/2" Pilot Hole.
The short leg of the "J" shape goes through the "Pin" hole and compresses the rack tube against the side of the receiver tube.
Once you tighten this nut enough (with included wrench) there will be no movement or rattle between the rack and the trailer hitch. It's like they are one unit.
When it's all tightened down, put the lock on.
I first read about this J-Pin lock on-line then went to a couple local RV/trailer dealers to buy it. Neither stocked it or claimed to know what I was talking about. That's odd. This thing really does the trick.
Some of these previous pictures are from this past weekend. After I took the bike off the van I headed for the West Fork Trail.
Work on the van or enjoy using the van? Tough call.
Advantage of a "B" sized RV. Just keep moving it around till you hit a level spot.
Previously I'd installed a trailer hitch so I can haul my bike with me. Now for the bike rack.
I use a fold-down style bike rack with my other camping vehicle, Subaru Forester with the WVBIKE plates.
The fold-down rack wouldn't work so well on the van. I could open the doors with a bike on the folded down rack but couldn't safely climb in and out of the back of the van. Because of that I went with a swing-away style rack.
I bought the Surco DBR300 OSI Swing Away Hitch Mount Bike Rack, 2" Receiver, Up To 3 Bike Capacity.
It was $226.58 on Amazon ( free shipping).
There are a couple of design problems with this bike rack but nothing that can't be fixed.
The bike is secured in this top horizontal holder. There are spaces for three bikes. Put your bike into the "V" groove then just tighten down with the two threaded knobs. The round knob on the right has a lock. Once you have the bike tightened into place you can "unlock" the knob so that it spins free and doesn't loosen the bolt underneath.
Even secured by these two bolts the bike can still swing so I always add a strap wrapped around the bottom brace to keep it in place.
Here is how the swing-out part of the rack works.
There is a large bolt that holds the two halves of the rack together.
Loosen this bolt.
Then pull on the cable release.
That raises this spring pin which allows the front half of the rack to swing away.
The two halves pivot on this bolt.
As you swing the bike you'll quickly see that it can only go so far before the back tire meets the van.
Where the horizontal bike hold-down is attached to the bike rack is another pivot point. Pressing down on these two knobs allow the top to rotate.
You can rotate the top 90 degrees.
With the top hold-down in this new position you swing the rack until the bike is parallel to the side of the van.
That allows full access to the back of the van.
Now to the design problems with this particular bike rack. There are two. I don't like the locking knob as a security feature. It doesn't feel robust but compared to the second problem it's small potatoes.
Here's the main problem. The pivot bolt that secures the halves of the bike rack together.
All it would take is a thief and a wrench to remove this bolt then walk away with the front half of the bike rack with the bike still attached. Nothing to stop them.
Here's how I fixed it. Had a friend weld on two pieces of steel angle. One onto each half of the bike rack then drill a hole through both pieces.
Putting a lock through the holes secures both halves of the bike rack together so even if the bolt was removed the rack will stay together.
Adding a steel cable to the lock means I can run the cable through the bike which secures the bike to the rack without worrying about the quality of the locking knob.
There was one other modification that had made to this bike rack. I have a step bumper on the van which is wider than standard rear bumper. To compensate for this extra width the square tube part of the bike rack that slides into the trailer hitch had to be extended by 1-1/2". The local machine shop did it for $20. Good price.
To secure the bike rack to the trailer hitch I'm using Draw-Tite J-Pin Anti-Rattle Lockset for 2 inch Receivers. Currently around $26.
This J-pin is designed for 2" Receiver Style Hitches with 5/8" Pin Hole & 1/2" Pilot Hole.
The short leg of the "J" shape goes through the "Pin" hole and compresses the rack tube against the side of the receiver tube.
Once you tighten this nut enough (with included wrench) there will be no movement or rattle between the rack and the trailer hitch. It's like they are one unit.
When it's all tightened down, put the lock on.
I first read about this J-Pin lock on-line then went to a couple local RV/trailer dealers to buy it. Neither stocked it or claimed to know what I was talking about. That's odd. This thing really does the trick.
Some of these previous pictures are from this past weekend. After I took the bike off the van I headed for the West Fork Trail.
Work on the van or enjoy using the van? Tough call.
