Terrible turning of Ford E450 202” WB

[SFVdave]

My 2016 ClassC on the Ford E450 chassis has a 202” wheelbase and the turning is terrible. The steering just doesn’t turn enough. I have seen ClassA MHs make turns much sharper than I can. Even my old 2004 ClassC Winnebago E350 with a 132” wheel base turned much sharper. This 202” WB makes driving much different. I have to turn the wheel much more and corrections that longer to have an effect. I don’t suppose there is anything that can be done to correct this.

[rjstractor]

Slowmover wrote:
Through to the end of their lives, most folks follow the front wheels around.

But every vehicle out there PIVOTS off of the rear axle. Knowing where to place the rear axle as a turn commences, is the trick

The Steer Axle follows the path laid out by the Drive Axle. It can’t be otherwise.

What makes a C cumbersome is the rear overhang. Exaggerates every improper angle.

Were I instructing I’d tell the driver to go farther into the intersection to “feel” where is the Drive Axle and THEN commence with cranking the wheel over. It’s what we do with big trucks.

Think of the turn as being in two parts. Place the Drive Axle. And then it’s a separate operation to use the wheel cut to bring it around.

One goes significantly farther into the intersection, first. There’s no diagonal across it.

And one moves a good deal more slowly than with a personal vehicle. Too hard on the tires otherwise. Five-mph under the posted ramp speed (clear weather minimum)

To put it all in perspective: the hilarious insistence of having to have a higher injury risk pickup versus a family vehicle to pull a travel trailer. It has the same roots: a vehicle being operated abnormally which is driver-only. Better would be to LEARN: load that personal vehicle to maximum and drive it that way 13-weeks. With an emphasis on lowest wear. Sure won’t be whipping it around like you do today.

Today’s drivers haven’t a clue that they must PILOT the vehicle. It has its needs. Try to respect them.

Brains, not feelz. How long do tires and brakes last on your personal vehicle? Less than 70k? Rotation required due to wear on front set? These are indicative of insufficient driving skill. Braking into turns (too fast for conditions)? Etc.

A box truck is the least “fun” vehicle to drive. Funny as hell to me to see a Moho with a towed. Two drivetrains is double the headaches. And having to unhitch to park is a problem I wouldn’t want. All for a vehicle with interior space compromised and badly utilized.

My pickup is 163”. The Pete is 265”. Neither is a ballerina. But both are easier to drive (hitched to their trailers — former at 63’ long, latter at 72’ long) than a Moho of any significant size. Not until you hit the top (Newell) are they ever “fast” in pro hands.

And I can do maneuvers with my TT hitched — all day — that’ll put most Moho + towed into the ditch.

Take your time, OP, and cut the slices thinner. Each maneuver has more parts to it than it than you thought.

The trip just takes what it takes. You either like this problem-solving or not.

You want a 100-mph RV hotrod, then a 27’ Airstream behind a Porsche Cayenne Turbo will suit.

All very true. What makes these E series Ford motorhomes difficult to pilot is the relative lack of cramp angle on the steer axle. You mentioned the box truck, I occasionally get to drive a box truck with a sleeper cab, a 24' foot box and tandem drive axles. It actually is "fun" to drive despite its roughly 260" wheelbase, and a big part of that is the ridiculously tight cramp angle on the front axle. I once had to maneuver a 25' flatbed trailer hooked to the box truck and was shocked how easily I could back the combo up despite its size.

But you are absolutely correct, you need a different mentality to drive these vehicles successfully. Every move needs to be thought out in advance and executed correctly to avoid running over curbs and other mishaps.

[pnichols]

Slowmover wrote:
Through to the end of their lives, most folks follow the front wheels around.

But every vehicle out there PIVOTS off of the rear axle. Knowing where to place the rear axle as a turn commences, is the trick

The Steer Axle follows the path laid out by the Drive Axle. It can’t be otherwise.

What makes a C cumbersome is the rear overhang. Exaggerates every improper angle.

Were I instructing I’d tell the driver to go farther into the intersection to “feel” where is the Drive Axle and THEN commence with cranking the wheel over. It’s what we do with big trucks.

Think of the turn as being in two parts. Place the Drive Axle. And then it’s a separate operation to use the wheel cut to bring it around.

One goes significantly farther into the intersection, first. There’s no diagonal across it.

And one moves a good deal more slowly than with a personal vehicle. Too hard on the tires otherwise. Five-mph under the posted ramp speed (clear weather minimum)

To put it all in perspective: the hilarious insistence of having to have a higher injury risk pickup versus a family vehicle to pull a travel trailer. It has the same roots: a vehicle being operated abnormally which is driver-only. Better would be to LEARN: load that personal vehicle to maximum and drive it that way 13-weeks. With an emphasis on lowest wear. Sure won’t be whipping it around like you do today.

Today’s drivers haven’t a clue that they must PILOT the vehicle. It has its needs. Try to respect them.

Brains, not feelz. How long do tires and brakes last on your personal vehicle? Less than 70k? Rotation required due to wear on front set? These are indicative of insufficient driving skill. Braking into turns (too fast for conditions)? Etc.

A box truck is the least “fun” vehicle to drive. Funny as hell to me to see a Moho with a towed. Two drivetrains is double the headaches. And having to unhitch to park is a problem I wouldn’t want. All for a vehicle with interior space compromised and badly utilized.

My pickup is 163”. The Pete is 265”. Neither is a ballerina. But both are easier to drive (hitched to their trailers — former at 63’ long, latter at 72’ long) than a Moho of any significant size. Not until you hit the top (Newell) are they ever “fast” in pro hands.

And I can do maneuvers with my TT hitched — all day — that’ll put most Moho + towed into the ditch.

Take your time, OP, and cut the slices thinner. Each maneuver has more parts to it than it than you thought.

The trip just takes what it takes. You either like this problem-solving or not.

You want a 100-mph RV hotrod, then a 27’ Airstream behind a Porsche Cayenne Turbo will suit.

Some very good advice and comments up above!

In addition, here's some of my FWIW added thougths that will sound and seem absurd to many:

- Never tow anything unless absolutely necessary, as the physics of that make it inherently more dangerous no matter how you do it.

- What the above statement means is ... motorhome RV's not towing anything are more safe than TT RVs, 5'er RVs, or popup trailer RVs.

- Use a motorhome RV as small in length as you can possibly tolerate ... and don't tow anything behind it.

- Even with a small motorhome RV, use one with a short as possible wheelbase for maneuverability and just learn how to deal with it's rear overhang.

- Never drive over the speed limit and ofttimes drive under the speed limit ... and that includes the posted speed limits for curves and off-ramps.

So far we have been able to practice what we preach regarding the above: We use a 24 foot motorhome on a 158 inch wheelbase, we drive 55-60 MPH on the highways, and we drive 7-10 MPH on dirt/gravel roads out in the middle of nowhere.

P.S. Ooops, I must confess ... we do very rarely tow a 14 foot aluminum boat behind our small motorhome when going to/from our favorite fishing/camping spot. I guess I'm taking a chance for access to larger bass and trout. 😉

[Slowmover]

Through to the end of their lives, most folks follow the front wheels around.

But every vehicle out there PIVOTS off of the rear axle. Knowing where to place the rear axle as a turn commences, is the trick

The Steer Axle follows the path laid out by the Drive Axle. It can’t be otherwise.

What makes a C cumbersome is the rear overhang. Exaggerates every improper angle.

Were I instructing I’d tell the driver to go farther into the intersection to “feel” where is the Drive Axle and THEN commence with cranking the wheel over. It’s what we do with big trucks.

Think of the turn as being in two parts. Place the Drive Axle. And then it’s a separate operation to use the wheel cut to bring it around.

One goes significantly farther into the intersection, first. There’s no diagonal across it.

And one moves a good deal more slowly than with a personal vehicle. Too hard on the tires otherwise. Five-mph under the posted ramp speed (clear weather minimum)

To put it all in perspective: the hilarious insistence of having to have a higher injury risk pickup versus a family vehicle to pull a travel trailer. It has the same roots: a vehicle being operated abnormally which is driver-only. Better would be to LEARN: load that personal vehicle to maximum and drive it that way 13-weeks. With an emphasis on lowest wear. Sure won’t be whipping it around like you do today.

Today’s drivers haven’t a clue that they must PILOT the vehicle. It has its needs. Try to respect them.

Brains, not feelz. How long do tires and brakes last on your personal vehicle? Less than 70k? Rotation required due to wear on front set? These are indicative of insufficient driving skill. Braking into turns (too fast for conditions)? Etc.

A box truck is the least “fun” vehicle to drive. Funny as hell to me to see a Moho with a towed. Two drivetrains is double the headaches. And having to unhitch to park is a problem I wouldn’t want. All for a vehicle with interior space compromised and badly utilized.

My pickup is 163”. The Pete is 265”. Neither is a ballerina. But both are easier to drive (hitched to their trailers — former at 63’ long, latter at 72’ long) than a Moho of any significant size. Not until you hit the top (Newell) are they ever “fast” in pro hands.

And I can do maneuvers with my TT hitched — all day — that’ll put most Moho + towed into the ditch.

Take your time, OP, and cut the slices thinner. Each maneuver has more parts to it than it than you thought.

The trip just takes what it takes. You either like this problem-solving or not.

You want a 100-mph RV hotrod, then a 27’ Airstream behind a Porsche Cayenne Turbo will suit.

[whizbang]

Go to an RV dealer and test drive some 40 foot diesel pushers. You 202 inch wheel base will look better when you're done.

[SFVdave]

Yes we did test drive it and I noticed the poor turning, but we test drove many MHs and I was more concerned about the freeway ride. That was OK until loaded. WE liked the MH because it had almost everything we wanted at a reaasonable price and dealer location was fairly close.
Yesterday, I met a buddy at another local dealer and the salesman said the Ford E series has a 38? turn compared to their Class A's that have 50?. Plus the longer 202" wheel base adds to the issue.

[DrewE]

Seems appropriate here...Give me forty acres and I'll turn this rig around

[ron_dittmer]

Our E350 with the Ford standard (unmodified) 158" wheel base, and the over-all rig being 23'-8".

Ah yes, those "U" turns while towing a Jeep Liberty as shown in my signature, can make me nervous. I pull off on the right shoulder, stop the vehicle, cut the wheel all the way left til it stops, then start rolling and I just make it. "Whew that was close".

[T18skyguy]

My only steering complaint with my 32 footer is the amount of effort to turn the wheel. I was used to my old 158 inch wheelbase and the power steering was so much easier. I just attribute it to the much greater weight.

[BarabooBob]

You bought a school bus with a camper body on it. What did you expect? I bought a F150 supercrew long bed. I test drove it and discovered right there that I would deal with the wide turns needed with the long wheelbase.
A good extensive test drive should have been taken before handing over the cash.

[zigzagrv]

Desert Captain wrote:
I have to ask... doesn't anyone do a test drive before buying a motorhome? This forum is continually inundated with complaints about the ride and handling of the posters motorhome. If you do a thorough test drive and it rides and/or handles poorly, why do people still buy it? :h

Clearly, it is not going to get better all by itself, right? If you buy a coach that has issues and you are prepared to deal with them I get that. {My dad used to say that any problem that can be solved by money is not a problem... "If you have the money".} :R

There are lots of aftermarket goodies that purport to cure all of the ride and handling issues we so frequently see here in the complaint posts. All it takes is time and money thrown at the problem and you can probably find "some" improvement... but why go there in the first place?

I wonder how many folks would go to a high dollar SUV dealer {Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Land Rover etc.} and plop down something well north of $100,000 only to discover that it rides and drives like a pig on roller skates. The salesman says "no problem" just get it aligned and spend another 2, 3 or 4 thousand dollars on aftermarket add ons and it will be fine {maybe}. :S
{Hint, this is where: "Run Forrest run" becomes pretty good advice.}

I'm guessing not many if any would be so foolish but when it comes to buying motorhomes obviously lots of people do exactly that. IMHO: Any decent motorhome should ride, drive and handle well right off of the showroom floor without the need for any aftermarket modifications.
If it doesn't then it is the wrong motorhome.

Keep shopping folks, there are lots of fine quality coaches out there. Rant off for now...
But I'm still waiting to hear why this is so prevalent {but it won't keep me awake tonight}.

:C

EXACTLY! Well said! 🙂

[carringb]

pnichols wrote:


I really wonder how a 202' WB Sprinter chassis would do with respect to turning radius as compared to the Ford E450 chassis?

The Sprinter 144 and E-series 138 wheelbases have the same 48' wall to wall turning circle. So the Sprinter has a slightly sharper wheel cut. Maybe. Being that close, it could also jsut be due to scrub radius of the tires since the E-series negative offset wheels, or the Ford steering being less-than-Ackerman at longer wheelbases. It's a moot point however, since the Sprinter max wheelbase is 170" and cannot be altered (which I'm sure you know, just pointing it out in case somebody else wasn't aware)

[pnichols]

SFVdave wrote:
My 2016 ClassC on the Ford E450 chassis has a 202” wheelbase and the turning is terrible. The steering just doesn’t turn enough. I have seen ClassA MHs make turns much sharper than I can. Even my old 2004 ClassC Winnebago E350 with a 132” wheel base turned much sharper. This 202” WB makes driving much different. I have to turn the wheel much more and corrections that longer to have an effect. I don’t suppose there is anything that can be done to correct this.

Of course the main cause of your too-large turning radius is that 202" WB.

That's one of the many reasons that we bought a small Class C - it's E450 158" WB makes for a turning radius that's quite usable. We can almost make a U-turn with our 24 footer on a residential street.

I really wonder how a 202' WB Sprinter chassis would do with respect to turning radius as compared to the Ford E450 chassis?

[Desert_Captain]

I have to ask... doesn't anyone do a test drive before buying a motorhome? This forum is continually inundated with complaints about the ride and handling of the posters motorhome. If you do a thorough test drive and it rides and/or handles poorly, why do people still buy it? :h

Clearly, it is not going to get better all by itself, right? If you buy a coach that has issues and you are prepared to deal with them I get that. {My dad used to say that any problem that can be solved by money is not a problem... "If you have the money".} :R

There are lots of aftermarket goodies that purport to cure all of the ride and handling issues we so frequently see here in the complaint posts. All it takes is time and money thrown at the problem and you can probably find "some" improvement... but why go there in the first place?

I wonder how many folks would go to a high dollar SUV dealer {Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Land Rover etc.} and plop down something well north of $100,000 only to discover that it rides and drives like a pig on roller skates. The salesman says "no problem" just get it aligned and spend another 2, 3 or 4 thousand dollars on aftermarket add ons and it will be fine {maybe}. :S
{Hint, this is where: "Run Forrest run" becomes pretty good advice.}

I'm guessing not many if any would be so foolish but when it comes to buying motorhomes obviously lots of people do exactly that. IMHO: Any decent motorhome should ride, drive and handle well right off of the showroom floor without the need for any aftermarket modifications.
If it doesn't then it is the wrong motorhome.

Keep shopping folks, there are lots of fine quality coaches out there. Rant off for now...
But I'm still waiting to hear why this is so prevalent {but it won't keep me awake tonight}.

:C

[pianotuna]

Ty carringb