Gents,
I need a little help here. Below is a picture of a solenoid that was attached to our recently purchased '03 Jeep Rubicon. I believe is was used as a starter kill system. In other words, unless this particular solenoid was triggered, the starter would not turn over. I did one similar to this only I used a battery disconnect switch, the kind with the red plastic, removable key.
Anyway, the system was partially disconnected when we purchased the Jeep and, I'd like to get it operating as a theft deterrent system. When I first removed it, nothing worked. I discected the solenoid to see if it was corroded on the inside. It was flawlessly perfect. So, I put it all back together. I cleaned all the terminals on the outside.
Connected to it from inside the Jeep was a tiny, two way, spring loaded, toggle switch. There are four wires emminating from that switch. A black, a red, a blue and a yellow. The black when to the body of the Jeep as a ground. The red went to the other side of a side mounted fuse terminal which, is tied to what I think is the battery side of the solenoid. The Yellow is tied to the "S" terminal of it and the blue is tied to the "I" terminal.
Now, when I removed it, cleaned it all up, and re-attached all the wires as it was in the Jeep, only on my bench, I hooked up the Jeep battery to it and, I get some odd results. I have the black wire from the toggle going directly to the mounting tangs of the solenoid. The others are where I stated.
I connected the positive of the battery to the side with the fuse and small red wire. Now, here's the deal.
I connected my VOM to the two large posts and set it for sound notification in continuity.
When I flip the small toggle in one direction, the solenoid closes and, I get sound from my volt ohm meter. When I let the toggle return to the center, the sound quits and, no continuity. All good so far.
But, when I flip that toggle the other way, the solenoid closes and, I get sound. All good, yes? But, when I let the toggle self-return to the center position, the sound stays on and, so does the continuity!!! Hmmmm, not sure that is good. I flipped that little toggle in both directions, several times and, each time I got the same exact results. It (the solenoid) stays engaged after flipping it one way but, disengages automatically after the toggle is flipped and released, in the other direction.
So, while this solenoid LOOKS like a normal starter solenoid, and as stated, it has the "S" terminal and "I" terminal along with the two larger ones, one on each side, something is making it operate differently when the toggle is pushed in different directions.
Question: Is this normal for ANY solenoid to stay self connected, even when battery power is pulled from the large connector on the battery side?
Question: In the old days, as in the '60s, I used to hot wire cars, namely Fords, and start them using that same style solenoid. All you did was connect a jumper from the large, battery terminal on the one side to the "I" terminal to give the engine ignition. The, use a pair of pliers to short the large battery terminal to the "S" terminal to engage the starter.
Now, before anyone starts thinking "I" was the one that stole your '65 Ford Galaxy, WRONG! I only did it because I figured out how. I thought it was cool that you could start a car engine without any keys. The law was pretty tough in our neighborhood so, if I was to do anything and get caught, well let's just say I'd have never been able to have kids, cause I would have been castrated.
Anyway, I'm thinking that solenoid is the same kind used on the old Fords. And, it's basically used as security system for the starter. So, if you don't know where the toggle is mounted, you could attempt to steal that Jeep all day long but the starter, would not turn over.
Scott
I need a little help here. Below is a picture of a solenoid that was attached to our recently purchased '03 Jeep Rubicon. I believe is was used as a starter kill system. In other words, unless this particular solenoid was triggered, the starter would not turn over. I did one similar to this only I used a battery disconnect switch, the kind with the red plastic, removable key.
Anyway, the system was partially disconnected when we purchased the Jeep and, I'd like to get it operating as a theft deterrent system. When I first removed it, nothing worked. I discected the solenoid to see if it was corroded on the inside. It was flawlessly perfect. So, I put it all back together. I cleaned all the terminals on the outside.
Connected to it from inside the Jeep was a tiny, two way, spring loaded, toggle switch. There are four wires emminating from that switch. A black, a red, a blue and a yellow. The black when to the body of the Jeep as a ground. The red went to the other side of a side mounted fuse terminal which, is tied to what I think is the battery side of the solenoid. The Yellow is tied to the "S" terminal of it and the blue is tied to the "I" terminal.
Now, when I removed it, cleaned it all up, and re-attached all the wires as it was in the Jeep, only on my bench, I hooked up the Jeep battery to it and, I get some odd results. I have the black wire from the toggle going directly to the mounting tangs of the solenoid. The others are where I stated.
I connected the positive of the battery to the side with the fuse and small red wire. Now, here's the deal.
I connected my VOM to the two large posts and set it for sound notification in continuity.
When I flip the small toggle in one direction, the solenoid closes and, I get sound from my volt ohm meter. When I let the toggle return to the center, the sound quits and, no continuity. All good so far.
But, when I flip that toggle the other way, the solenoid closes and, I get sound. All good, yes? But, when I let the toggle self-return to the center position, the sound stays on and, so does the continuity!!! Hmmmm, not sure that is good. I flipped that little toggle in both directions, several times and, each time I got the same exact results. It (the solenoid) stays engaged after flipping it one way but, disengages automatically after the toggle is flipped and released, in the other direction.
So, while this solenoid LOOKS like a normal starter solenoid, and as stated, it has the "S" terminal and "I" terminal along with the two larger ones, one on each side, something is making it operate differently when the toggle is pushed in different directions.
Question: Is this normal for ANY solenoid to stay self connected, even when battery power is pulled from the large connector on the battery side?
Question: In the old days, as in the '60s, I used to hot wire cars, namely Fords, and start them using that same style solenoid. All you did was connect a jumper from the large, battery terminal on the one side to the "I" terminal to give the engine ignition. The, use a pair of pliers to short the large battery terminal to the "S" terminal to engage the starter.
Now, before anyone starts thinking "I" was the one that stole your '65 Ford Galaxy, WRONG! I only did it because I figured out how. I thought it was cool that you could start a car engine without any keys. The law was pretty tough in our neighborhood so, if I was to do anything and get caught, well let's just say I'd have never been able to have kids, cause I would have been castrated.
Anyway, I'm thinking that solenoid is the same kind used on the old Fords. And, it's basically used as security system for the starter. So, if you don't know where the toggle is mounted, you could attempt to steal that Jeep all day long but the starter, would not turn over.
Scott
enblethen wrote:
The mechanically latching relay is operating correctly. The switch is reversing the polarity on the relay.
The switch should be a momentary on/off/on. Is this the way your switch is operating? It should rest in the center position.
Yes Sir, it's a "momentary", on-off-on toggle. And, the switch is operating as it's supposed to. I know how solenoids operate, at least the basic ones anyway. But, when I encountered this one, staying in the "ON" position when the switch was released, that perplexed me.
I've done a small amount of investigation but, as of yet, have not seen anywhere on the net, an explanation as to why this particular solenoid, stays connected (if that's the correct term) when the activation switch is released but, disconnects (the contact terminals inside the solenoid) when the activation switch is flipped the other direction.
I've never delved into electronics all that much to understand all of the automotive side of things. I get the basics and, can do a bit of trouble shooting but, this thing is totally new to me.
Tom and Barb,
While I'm certainly not an electrical engineer, and based on what our coach uses for a "dual battery solenoid", (Which is the Trombetta 200A unit that is about twice as big as that one), I would think that your coach too would have the much larger solenoid for that purpose. But, who am I to counter the engineers that design these things?
I want to thank all of you for helping to identify my component and, answering whether or not it's functioning as it should.
Scott
