Fix needed for older antenas?

[yolo6886]

Hi everyone,

First time poster here...my wife and I just bought a 2002 Holiday Rambler 5th Wheel Alumascape. We brand new to the RV scene and are super excited. I was curious with the digital changeover will the OEM antenna work on the unit as is or will we need an adapter, if so any suggestions?

Thanks everyone!!!

[SCVJeff]

Or... (choke)... an Omni

[wa8yxm]

YOu know.. I think the best install (I may do this some day) would be both a Jack and a Batwing.

That way when I'm surrounded by stations like I am in Pendelton.. JACK

When they all lie on a single vector, but farther away... BATWING.

I could also bring one in on a different feed (Cable for example) so I could switch between them and put one on the front and one on the rear.. That way the stations that need the extra gain get the batwing.

[SCVJeff]

Paul: Oops, that one looks like a late move from the FCC''s R&O I pulled up. I also didn't pay attention to LP's and translators. Looks like they will all be gone on the next repack anyway.

I'm going to Hancock in a few weeks for some 2.4ghz stuff. I might be interesting to do a scan from the roof and see what's out there that's not even shown.

[dodge_guy]

camperpaul wrote:

SCVJeff wrote:
-- snip --
-Did you test your Jack with any VHF channels in the area?: NO, because there are two in the entire state of Il. Oh yeah... The Jack is so poor on VHF you wouldn't have seen them anyway. Just because there are no VHF channels around Chicago, don't assume that's the standard across the country because its not.
-- snip --

There is one HDTV station in Chicago:

FCC Website wrote:
(From Bartlet, IL)
WBBM-TV
Network: CBS
Channel: 2-1 (RF 12)
Receive Power: -48 dBm
Compass Direction to Tower: ESE (109)

That and about 50 other stations are received by me on a Winegard® w/Wingman® at IBSP (Zion, IL), Chain o' Lakes SP (Spring Grove,IL), Rock Cut SP (Rockton, IL) and Cliffside Park County Park (Caledonia, WI).
See: FCC Website
There have been numerous times when I have asked one of my neighbors if they saw the 20-20 program on Sunday evening; invariably those using a "Jack" antenna would tell me, "I can't get channel 2."

Not listed are the numerous analog stations:
e.g.
the WGN "black sheep" sister station on Channel 6
the Korean language station on Channel 13
and others.

I get all those stations in my driveway!

And no I didn`t bring my batwing. why would I when I can`t pick up any stations with it? :h

[camperpaul]

SCVJeff wrote:
-- snip --
-Did you test your Jack with any VHF channels in the area?: NO, because there are two in the entire state of Il. Oh yeah... The Jack is so poor on VHF you wouldn't have seen them anyway. Just because there are no VHF channels around Chicago, don't assume that's the standard across the country because its not.
-- snip --

There is one HDTV station in Chicago:

FCC Website wrote:
(From Bartlet, IL)
WBBM-TV
Network: CBS
Channel: 2-1 (RF 12)
Receive Power: -48 dBm
Compass Direction to Tower: ESE (109)

That and about 50 other stations are received by me on a Winegard® w/Wingman® at IBSP (Zion, IL), Chain o' Lakes SP (Spring Grove,IL), Rock Cut SP (Rockton, IL) and Cliffside Park County Park (Caledonia, WI).
See: FCC Website
There have been numerous times when I have asked one of my neighbors if they saw the 20-20 program on Sunday evening; invariably those using a "Jack" antenna would tell me, "I can't get channel 2."

Not listed are the numerous analog stations:
e.g.
the WGN "black sheep" sister station on Channel 6
the Korean language station on Channel 13
and others.

[wa8yxm]

One of the problems with antennas is that good antennas are trade off devices.. All of them balance two different variables.. Beam width and gain.. Now you can make up a little bit for gain by amplification but.. That is not the cure all some folks think it is, More signal = More noise in many cases so the Signal/Noise ratio if anything gets worse.

The Batwing, with Wingman, is a narrow beam, FAR SEEING antenna. In one of the places I park I have to decide what I want to watch and turn right/left or center to pick up the target station.

Think of a spot light or a rifle

Also, I mentioned noise.. Noise comes from many places.. MOST of the sources are NOT on a line to the station, so a high-gain, far seeing, rifle of an antenna blocks much of that noise and improves signal/noise ratio.

The jack, is a much wider beam device.. So it can see stations well off to the side in the area the Batwing can not see.. Think Flood light (Reflector type) or Shotgun (Open choke).

But the rifle, shoots farther, and the spotlight shines farther. And the Batwing sees farther..

And some of the places I park are way out of Jack range of the stations.

[SCVJeff]

-Did you take your old Batwing out with you and test it on the same day and under the same conditions as you did the Jack: NO..

-Did you test your Jack with any VHF channels in the area?: NO, because there are two in the entire state of Il. Oh yeah... The Jack is so poor on VHF you wouldn't have seen them anyway. Just because there are no VHF channels around Chicago, don't assume thats the standard across the country because its not.

So the bottom line is that you don't really know do you? Had I not looked at the two antennas side by side on the same day and under 30 mins of each other I wouldn't have had a clue that they were that different. Just because you can now see 5 stations where before it was 2 means nothing because weather doesn't wait to change, and thats the biggest enemy of radio, especially in the midwest.

And for the "real world" comment, I can see stations 60 and 150 miles all the time at my "real world" camping spot, both UHF and VHF, and compare what I see with neighbors owning a Jack if I see one and am able to look. The 3 I have seen don't do nearly as well.

To your other comment. I bought the Jack to see how it compares to the Batwing and would have swapped them out in an instant had the two been even close, but they're not. I don't know what your interpenetration of "real world" is, but when the RV is parked at a random location and the antenna is raised to look for and stations and watch TV, that's as "real world" as it gets. The difference between your "real world test" and mine is that I also took $50k worth of gear to back up and document what happened between the two antennas. And the numbers simply don't lie, regardless of ones definition of "real world".

So if you think your works for you, great

[dodge_guy]

OK. Now that i have officially used the Jack Antenna while camping and not just in the driveway i can give an official review on it. It works as i expected. I got 8 stations where i was only able to get 1 or 2! I am very happy with how much better the Jack performs than my old metal antenna! I was able to check the weather and even watch the news in the a.m.

I highly recomend this antenna. This is from actual real world use and not just what you read from people that haven't used it!

[SCVJeff]

TXiceman wrote:
The Majestic UFO appears to be a omnidirectional antenna with a high gain amplified. The problem is with a weak signal that is amplified, the noise is often amplified as well unless there are filter circuits to knock out the noise.

The UFO will probably work OK in a strong signal area, but will not perform as well in a fringe weak signal area.

Ken

And I know you know this, but for the benefit of mdamerell, you also have zero control over multipath (reflections) from buildings, mountains, ducting through canyons, etc., that no amount of gain can fix, and often makes it worse.

An Omni-directional antenna on a boat is a completely different animal. Don't let the salesman fool you into believing they aren't.

[TXiceman]

The Majestic UFO appears to be a omnidirectional antenna with a high gain amplified. The problem is with a weak signal that is amplified, the noise is often amplified as well unless there are filter circuits to knock out the noise.

The UFO will probably work OK in a strong signal area, but will not perform as well in a fringe weak signal area.

Ken

[wa8yxm]

Well, alas the link did not work for me (Local issues I suspect) but if the unit has a mast heat amplifier that runs on 12 volt, center wire of coax positive, and an indoor power supply, the Winegard Sensar Pro replaces the PS/Switch and provides indication of signal strength.

Or use the front TV to aim.

[SCVJeff]

There are many ways to get around the TV not being around the pointing knob. I don't even use the TV to peak the antenna.
Hopefully you understand that there is a reason that the omni you show is by far the worst performer of anything else in the RV market? To start you won't get anywhere near the channels that your neighbors do. So if you're OK getting what you get or resort to a book, it's a great choice.

[mdamerell]

Majestic UFO X Ultra High Gain 30dB Digital TV Antenna - 12V

Trying to point the antenna from my bedroom when my only TV is in the living room is a two person job. Not to mention the little arrow does not seam to accurately coincide with the direction of the bat wing.

Just want to some watch TV without a degree in antennae science. Don't want the expense or hassle of a dish/satellite TV antennae.

Enjoyed all the info. Thanks.

Correction: TV is in living room not the bedroom.

[wa8yxm]

Yup, this is the other reason I do not like the Jack... Chan 5 is VHF low.. since the Digital plan called for ALL TV transmitters to vacate VHF Low, Jack did not design for it.. The wings are too short for VHF low and thus performance sufferes big time down there.

VHF-Hi perpahs I would have to measure (Needs just under a meter wing span to do well on Chan 7-13) It is fair at UHF. Batwing is better on all 3 bands.