200 Series HWH leveling jack Pump won't stop

[Thorshegoes]

Hi All, I have the joystick operated kickdown leveling jacks.

I extended the jacks and the pump cycled as expected. But this time, the pump did not stop. Not sure what happened but even though I returned the joystick to resting position, the pump continued to cycle.

I had to disconnect the chassis battery to stop the power to the pump. I also dumped the jacks.

After digging around and checking my fluid reservoir, I realized I was terribly low on fluid.

Have I broken something in the system by operating them with insufficient fluid levels? Is anyone familiar with the symptoms I am facing of the pump continuing to cycle?

[dougrainer]

Thorshegoes wrote:
In the above wiring schematics, you can see that the blue 6820 wire does provide some signal from/to the pump relay.

This is NOT his system. BUT, the blue wire is the ground from the Joystick. Doug

[Thorshegoes]

In the above wiring schematics, you can see that the blue 6820 wire does provide some signal from/to the pump relay.

[Thorshegoes]

Thanks for the clarification, Doug. I found a parts store nearby that has a 12 volt intermittent solenoid relay that provides 150 amp with a 800 amp surge.

Also, unfortunately. I lost power to my control board now. I confirmed I'm getting 12 volts to the control board and the 5 amp tube fuse it good on the board.

It would seem to me that the pump relay is the problem and does have some role in providing power to the control board.

In the HWH service manual, page 12 says the following regarding no power to control module:

If the fuse does not blow when the ignition is turned ON, push the
"ON" button. If the fuse does not blow, continue operating the
system. If the fuse blows, the problem is the pump relay, the 6820
(BLUE) wire or the panel. Remove the 6820 (BLUE) wire from the
pump relay. Replace the fuse. If the fuse does not blow replace the
relay. If the fuse does not blow, replace the relay.If the fuse blows, remove the 6820 (BLUE) wire from the
(9 or 11 pin) MTA plug. Replace the fuse. Push the "ON" button.
If the fuse does not blow, the 6820 (BLUE) wire is shorted to ground.
If the fuse blows, replace the light panel.


If I understand correctly, one of the steps to no power to the control module is to replace the pump relay. Is this how you understand this excerpt?

Ray

[dougrainer]

Thorshegoes wrote:
Hi Doug, are you sure about the continuous duty relay? I've read in numerous posts and even from HWH documents that the joystick operated/hydraulic operated pump relays are intermittent. See below from HWH.

There are two different types of relays used on the
hydraulic pump motors, a continuous duty and an intermittent duty relay. The continuous duty relay is only
used with automatic, computerized systems. This relay is called the master relay. Systems that do not use a
hydraulic pump may have a master relay. It may be mounted in a control box or remote from the control box.
System diagrams or schematics will supply this information. The intermittent duty relay is called the pump
relay and is used with any system that has a hydraulic pump motor. The relay used on air compressor
assemblies is a continuous duty relay. All three of these relays have normally open contacts. The coil of all
pump and air compressor relays is controlled with a + signal except for the pump relay on 400 series leveling
systems and 200 series Joystick leveling systems. A switched ground controls these relays. Safety and other
relays may be controlled by either a + voltage or ground signal. You should always check system diagrams
and/or schematics to determine the control signal for a relay

I should have mentioned, you are correct per HWH, But, by continous duty, I meant the ability to run continous HIGH AMP dc current thru the relay contacs. The systems HWH talks about when you have the 2 Solenoids(relays) is the FIRST solenoid is the continous duty which stays on almost all the time when the Computerized system is activated. This is a LOW amp draw solenoid. The other Relay (2nd) is like yours which sends the HIGH AMP dc current to the Pump motor. I should have stated HI AMP draw solenoid instead of continous duty. Not all solenoids that look the same have the ability to run HI AMP draw thru it continously. Most Automotive part stores will not have the type solenoid you need. Grainger will usually have the type you need. RAP35723 is the solenoid you need. Doug

[Thorshegoes]

Hi Doug, are you sure about the continuous duty relay? I've read in numerous posts and even from HWH documents that the joystick operated/hydraulic operated pump relays are intermittent. See below from HWH.

There are two different types of relays used on the
hydraulic pump motors, a continuous duty and an intermittent duty relay. The continuous duty relay is only
used with automatic, computerized systems. This relay is called the master relay. Systems that do not use a
hydraulic pump may have a master relay. It may be mounted in a control box or remote from the control box.
System diagrams or schematics will supply this information. The intermittent duty relay is called the pump
relay and is used with any system that has a hydraulic pump motor. The relay used on air compressor
assemblies is a continuous duty relay. All three of these relays have normally open contacts. The coil of all
pump and air compressor relays is controlled with a + signal except for the pump relay on 400 series leveling
systems and 200 series Joystick leveling systems. A switched ground controls these relays. Safety and other
relays may be controlled by either a + voltage or ground signal. You should always check system diagrams
and/or schematics to determine the control signal for a relay

[dougrainer]

Thorshegoes wrote:
Also, would a bad solenoid relay stop power to the control module?

No, the Solenoid is just activated by the Joystick. If the Joystick panel is dead you have blown a fuse supplying the Joystick. There should be a fuse ON the Joystick pad. Doug

[dougrainer]

Thorshegoes wrote:
Thanks Doug and Richard.

Before getting the chance to read your replies. I tapped the solenoid relay with a hammer and it seemed to "unstuck" the relay.

Is this signs my solenoid relay is going out?

Yes, REPLACE the solenoid/relay. Remember, this is a CONTINOUS DUTY solenoid, so do not just purchase any solenoid that looks like it. The solenoid you purchase if not buying HWH, will need to state continous duty. Doug

[Thorshegoes]

Also, would a bad solenoid relay stop power to the control module?

[Thorshegoes]

Thanks Doug and Richard.

Before getting the chance to read your replies. I tapped the solenoid relay with a hammer and it seemed to "unstuck" the relay.

Is this signs my solenoid relay is going out?

[dougrainer]

RLS7201 wrote:
When you move your joy stick, it sends a 12 volt signal to the relay mounted on or near the pump motor. Either the signal is staying on or the relay is stuck.

Richard

The signal is a GROUND(negative) signal from the Joystick panel. It goes straight to that round solenoid mounted on the reservoir/Pump assbly. Disconnect the small Black wire at the SMALL terminal on the solenoid. Connect the chassis battery. IF the pump runs, your solenoid is stuck(Bad). If it does NOT, then connect the Black wire and if the pump runs you either have a short to ground on that Black wire or the Joystick has debris or corrosion causing the path to Ground. You can remove the 4 screws holding the Joystick top panel and use a shop vac to clean out any debris that may be in the Joystick housing. Doug

[RLS7201]

When you move your joy stick, it sends a 12 volt signal to the relay mounted on or near the pump motor. Either the signal is staying on or the relay is stuck.

Richard