3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Wyatt-S]

Allpraisebob wrote:

Yikes! If you follow your own instructions, Wyatt-S, you better hope the engine refuses to start under the tremendous load it'll be looking at when you pull on the rope! This is because your modification connects the two windings so that their outputs oppose each other, not add together, which is even more abusive than short-circuiting them!

This is why I put dots on the coils in my schematic, btw; what they indicate is the relative phasing of the winding. That is to say, the dot ends of all windings will be at the same voltage at any given point in time.

Another key thing that you missed is that the RED and WHITE wires are spliced together inside of the rubber sleeve connecting the generator head to the front panel. This splice needs to be broken regardless of where you parallel the coils together.

I've never heard the term "oppose" used in power sources. They can either be wired in parallel, in series or shorted. Full load is experienced when the coils are shorted not "opposed". By bridging the red and brown together and moving the red panel wire (which is attached to the white panel wire) to the blue you are bridging the coils in phase, ie, blue-white and red-brown. The reason the red and white do not need to be opened in the sleeve is because I am using them to bridge the blue and white gen leads. The schematic I've drawn would illustrate this better but I don't know how to post it. That's where I was asking for help, not on the re-wiring.

[allpraisebob]

Wyatt-S wrote:
I am planning on re-wiring a powerpro 3500 I bought locally a couple of days ago. I was looking at the schematics and it seems, that if all you want is to have both coils in parallel to provide more amperage at 120V, then all you have to do is the following:
...
Any help would be appreciated.

Yikes! If you follow your own instructions, Wyatt-S, you better hope the engine refuses to start under the tremendous load it'll be looking at when you pull on the rope! This is because your modification connects the two windings so that their outputs oppose each other, not add together, which is even more abusive than short-circuiting them!

This is why I put dots on the coils in my schematic, btw; what they indicate is the relative phasing of the winding. That is to say, the dot ends of all windings will be at the same voltage at any given point in time.

Another key thing that you missed is that the RED and WHITE wires are spliced together inside of the rubber sleeve connecting the generator head to the front panel. This splice needs to be broken regardless of where you parallel the coils together.

[Red_Clay_Ramble]

AlaTex,

Be advised that my ELM 3000 came with oil already in it. (surprised me too) You might check before adding any. I switched it to Mobil 1, not sure what the "factory" oil was.

[MrWizard]

Sonic1954 wrote:
Checker is running a 4000 watt 120 / 240 volt gen set on sale in my area for $299. Since I have not found one of the Eliminator 3000 or 3600 in my area and don't want to pay the enormous shipping fees to have one shipped in, I am wanting to do the modification to this gen set and direct all of the 4000 watts to 120 volts. I checked today, it does have 4 wires running from the gen set to the power panel. Should I be able to convert this unit? I am pretty handy on most things and can use a VOM and solder. If I take pictures of the inner workings, can one of you wizards give some help?

If this gen set can be converted, I plan on adding a 30 amp rv plug to the unit and putting a 30 am breaker in somehow.

I do have a Honda 3000 that is my primary generator. It is running close to full load most of the time when the AC is on. (That is most of the time right now.) I want to use this one for a backup since I live in my camper and do not have access to power. My gen set gets a lot of hours on them fast.

if you can 'meter' read it VOM as (2) sperate windings it should be convertable ..

you should realize that, you have to break the 'neutral' connection ( the 2 windings made common ) in order to verify the meter readings

finding a schematic/wiring diagram would be helpful

[Sonic1954]

Checker is running a 4000 watt 120 / 240 volt gen set on sale in my area for $299. Since I have not found one of the Eliminator 3000 or 3600 in my area and don't want to pay the enormous shipping fees to have one shipped in, I am wanting to do the modification to this gen set and direct all of the 4000 watts to 120 volts. I checked today, it does have 4 wires running from the gen set to the power panel. Should I be able to convert this unit? I am pretty handy on most things and can use a VOM and solder. If I take pictures of the inner workings, can one of you wizards give some help?

If this gen set can be converted, I plan on adding a 30 amp rv plug to the unit and putting a 30 am breaker in somehow.

I do have a Honda 3000 that is my primary generator. It is running close to full load most of the time when the AC is on. (That is most of the time right now.) I want to use this one for a backup since I live in my camper and do not have access to power. My gen set gets a lot of hours on them fast.

[MrWizard]

presp wrote:
Don't mean to nitpick, but MrWizard, you wrote:
" 90 degrees shift in the peak.."

Just wondered how do you get 90 degrees?

Pres

OOPS ! bob is right it's 120 degrees

and unless you have seen it on a scope have the knownledge, I'm not going to try to explain how it works

the only reason i brought it up was to explain that residential 230 volts is NOT 3 phase

[cecilpwv]

(edit, of course, for clarity...)

No need - I think you've got it now!

I'll stick with the existing 20amp. In case you hadn't realized it yet, I am quite unversed in these matters. I thought there might be a 30amp version of an outlet that takes a "regular 3-prong plug".

Thanks again for sharing your project with us.

[Wyatt-S]

I am planning on re-wiring a powerpro 3500 I bought locally a couple of days ago. I was looking at the schematics and it seems, that if all you want is to have both coils in parallel to provide more amperage at 120V, then all you have to do is the following:

1. Remove the red wire coming from the panel off of the red wire coming from the coils and add it to the blue wire coming from the coils.

2. Bridge the brown and red wires at the Gen head.

No need to open the panel, the above can be done right at the Gen head. Very easy!

I created a diagram to show the changes, but since this is the first time I post to a forum like this I am not sure how to insert it.

Any help would be appreciated.

[allpraisebob]

cecilpwv wrote:
...there's still a risk of overloading the 20amp outlet, so wouldn't it be a good idea to upgrade it to 30amp when making this modification, rather than relying on how hot the plug gets?

If by a 30A plug you mean the NEMA 5-30, then no, there is nothing gained by replacing the stock 5-20 because there is no more surface area on the contacts to lower the resistance. In fact, the only reason the terminal configurations are different is to prevent a device that requires 30A from being connected, say, to a branch circuit wired with 14awg and therefore only rated for 15A.

An even more poignant example: The only difference between the 30A plugs for dryers and the 50A plugs for ranges is the neutral on the 30A plug is L shaped while on the 50A plug it is straight. The 30A plug actually has slightly more surface area (for its neutral, anyway), but is "rated" at 20 less amps of capacity. Once again, the terminal shape and configurations are different to protect the wiring from overload, not the plugs.

If you really want to replace the otherwise most-versatile NEMA 5-20 receptacle with one "rated" for 30A, then I would suggest the L5-30. It should fit in the same round cutout as the existing 5-20. The blade area of a locking plug is much larger than the same-rated non-locking plug, and the locking plugs are much more resistant to vibration, of course. However, doing this means your generator will be much more cumbersome to use in a pinch because you'll always need some sort of "pigtail" adapter for standalone use.

(edit, of course, for clarity...)

[AlaTex]

This is a most interesting topic.

I had been looking for a generator to use as a minimal backup for home for use in power outages for several days to mainly keep refrigerator & freezer running and occasional dry camping use. Recently, just before Hurricane Dennis hit the Gulf, I could not locate a generator within 150 miles. Last year when Hurricane Ivan hit the Gulf coast, even though we are 160 miles inland, we were without power for 6 days.

Based on the extensive discussion on this thread, earlier this week through Ebay I bought from the distributor in Buffalo NY the Eliminator 3000 Watt Premium Gas Portable Generator. Notified it will be delivered by UPS early next week.

Hope this will be delivered in good condition, several years ago the UPS delivery dropped a new computer in my driveway - what a hassle resolving including the time involved. I will watch for the delivery and try and meet him at truck.

Check to see all screws and bolts are tight on generator, add oil and gas and test right away.

[cecilpwv]

APB, thank you for clarifying. I'm not trying to catch you in any misstatements, I was just confused. But as for the 20amp plug, I agree that I will be running the RV out of the NEMA L14-30, but there's still a risk of overloading the 20amp outlet, so wouldn't it be a good idea to upgrade it to 30amp when making this modification, rather than relying on how hot the plug gets?

[allpraisebob]

cecilpwv wrote:

Throw the toggle over towards the 120V receptacle the full output of the generator will then be available there only.

Congratulations on your success, allpraisebob, and thanks for sharing the picute of the completed work with us. I am curious, though, why is full 120v output available only at the 20amp outlet. According to your schematic the 30amp outlet should be getting the same juice when the toggle is in throw position #2...

Ah, cecilpwv - I can always count on you to spot the more cumbersome turns of phrase in my ramblings 🙂 What I MEANT (and edited my post to reflect this) is that since the outlets are labeled "120" and "120/240", if the toggle switch is wired up as I did (and not reversed) then when the toggle points at the NEMA L14-30 outlet the generator will be supplying both 120V and 240V (normal mode); when it's flipped over to point at the NEMA 5-20 outlet, it will be putting out 120V only, but with the full wattage available (at both the 5-20 and 14-30 receptacles).

Of course, only one pole of the twistlock receptacle will be hot when in 120V full wattage mode, but this is the receptacle to use if more than 20A need to be pulled from the generator for "long" periods of time. The best indicator you are actually overloading the 5-20 receptacle is if the plug connected to it starts getting warm, even just mildly warm. However, for powering an RV you're probably going to want to use the twistlock receptacle, no matter how much amperage you actually draw or whether you need just 120 or both 120/240 because it won't come unplugged from vibration.

Hope that clears everything up!

[allpraisebob]

MrWizard wrote:
...phasing is NOT a voltage thing, Phasing is a timing thing, multiple lines of power, 90 degrees shift in the peak of the sine wave. for industrial applications

Oops - looks like I'm not the only techhead around here who types faster than he should 😉

The sine wave peaks in 3 phase power are at 120 degree intervals; 90 degrees is for the old "farm" power 2 phase system that is extremely rare these days.

[presp]

Don't mean to nitpick, but MrWizard, you wrote:
" 90 degrees shift in the peak.."

Just wondered how do you get 90 degrees?

Pres

[MrWizard]

Elda wrote:
Richdel,

If you are planning to use a generator as a house backup, doesn't it need to have three phase 220V or something? I'm not sure all generators are able to provide 220V that can replace the normal input to a house through a transfer box or that can even be split into two 110V circuits.

At least I have heard some smarter people than I complain about this.

Make sure you get a generator that will do the job you want, otherwise it will just be a waist of money.

Now I'm going to study what allpraisebob did and see if I can follow it.

NO house/residential power is NOT 3 phase, it is stanard single phase 230 volts

phasing is NOT a voltage thing, Phasing is a timing thing, multiple lines of power, 90 degrees shift in the peak of the sine wave. for industrial applications