3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[GangOfFour]

AlaTex - check your PMs

[sjptak]

I went to Pep Boys today and gat the PowerPro 3500. Can anyone tell me how to wire in an hourmeter? Not the quietest genset, but acceptable, since I will be using it primarily for house backup and not camping (wish I could convince myself to part with $$$$$ for the Honda or Yamaha).

Is there anything I should know for "Break In" or is it pretty much "plug and play"?

One other thing. Not being familiar with generators, when I start it, it says 230V on the voltmeter. I was a bit apprehensive about plugging in a 120V power drill. Is that what it should read? I'll play with plugging more things in after I hear from you more experienced guys.

BIG thanks to Prof, Wiz, Bob and all the others who helped me make my decision. This was/is the most informative thread I have seen. No product bashing, personal attacks or arguments. Wish the other threads could be this informative. Thanks guys....

[bassman1]

bump

[TubaPete]

V10guy wrote:

TubaPete wrote:

V10guy wrote:
Maybe I have ADHD, but I'm having a problem with following everything in this thread. I have the ELIM3000. Now, does all the voltage go to the 110v outlets when the toggle is on 110v?

I think you mean wattage. And yes, for the ELIM3000, all 2800, 3000 peak watts goes to the one outlet.

Yup, I mean wattage. Now does it feed just one outlet of the two, if I had two things plugged into it, am I only limited to 15a for one outlet?

I assume we are talking about the two outlets in a regular duplex outlet. The Elim3000 has one lead into the outlet. You can get all of it's output in one or split it between the two. You can split it any way you want, e.g. 600 watts from one plug, 2200 from the other.

[V10guy]

TubaPete wrote:

V10guy wrote:
Maybe I have ADHD, but I'm having a problem with following everything in this thread. I have the ELIM3000. Now, does all the voltage go to the 110v outlets when the toggle is on 110v?

I think you mean wattage. And yes, for the ELIM3000, all 2800, 3000 peak watts goes to the one outlet.

Yup, I mean wattage. Now does it feed just one outlet of the two, if I had two things plugged into it, am I only limited to 15a for one outlet?

[AlaTex]

I received my ELM3000 to day from the distributor via UPS - I met the UPS delivery man at my door (3:15 PM CDT), it was not dropped in my presents. However, the way he was carrying it, he set it down on its side. Using hand trucks I moved it to workshop (raining again). Upon checking outside packaging looking for any damage, I noticed written in approx. 3 inch letters “Referb” - which I understood to mean refurbished.

I purchased a “NEW” generator. I wend back to computer and pulled up the add for the generator I purchased. The add described it as new - 6 times - no where in the add is there any indication of rebuilt, refurbished, etc..

Placed call to distributor 800 number within 45 min. of delivery (5 PM EDT) and reached company - they referred me to someone by the name of Mark, did not answer, but I left message with phone number. Called 800 number again and talked to same person again who said Mark was there and apparently on the phone, so I again left my phone number. I know this is not much time and they are likely closed by now (6:10 PM EDT). However, they require the purchaser to check for and report shipping damage within 3 days of delivery.

Based on the “Referb” on box I do not want to open packaging to inspect genset before discussing with ELIM. If I have to ship back to them all that would be necessary is anew shipping label. Others have reported good customer service with this company. I will keep everyone posted.

Suggestions?

[guy48065]

And now the diagram of the MODIFIED unit (allpraisebob's drawn schematic is accurate, I just wanted to revise the "official" version and put it up here for all):



Hope this is of some help.

--Mark

[guy48065]

The schematic of the Power Pro 3500 (from the manual) I posted way back on page 48 had a few minor errors in it so I cleaned it up for clarity. My next post will be of the same diagram modified to show the switch wiring as described by allpraisebob in his helpful posts. THese diagrams are probably applicable to most of these chinese gensets. If anyone spots an error please post so I can make corrections.

STOCK wiring diagram:

[mavapa]

I have not used it to power anything but a test run with a weed trimmer. I have not been able to use it to power my AC because my trailer is currently at a long-term campground and the generator is at home. I expect it to run the AC fine, and, I hope, my home well pump if we have a power outage. My impressions are these:
1. It's quieter than I expected. I will not worry about disturbing anyone as long as I use it with some respect for fellow campers.
2. The quality seems pretty decent. It came with one small ding in the frame and with one little rubber foot missing. No big deal.
3. It's heavy. It's going to be a bear to move around. I will not try to lift it into the back of my truck. I will use a ramp and some kind of wheeled transport (wagon, hand truck or something similar).

I have great expectations for it, but I won't know for sure for a while.

[TubaPete]

V10guy wrote:
Maybe I have ADHD, but I'm having a problem with following everything in this thread. I have the ELIM3000. Now, does all the voltage go to the 110v outlets when the toggle is on 110v?

I think you mean wattage. And yes, for the ELIM3000, all 2800, 3000 peak watts goes to the one outlet.

[V10guy]

Maybe I have ADHD, but I'm having a problem with following everything in this thread. I have the ELIM3000. Now, does all the voltage go to the 110v outlets when the toggle is on 110v?

[V10guy]

mavapa.

What do you think of the ELIM?

[mavapa]

About oil in the Elim3000, mine came with most of the oil distributed over the generator and on the cardboard packing. The filler plug was tight -- so tight, in fact, so that I had to replace the o-ring. But the oil still made its way out. Make sure you check the oil level before you start a recently-shipped generator.

[Montanaman]

I think we have gotten off the original topic.

[Wyatt-S]

alvinc wrote:
Circuit breakers (or fuses) are used to protect the wiring from over current situations. It's not clear to me that a single winding in the generator can support 30 amps.

Willing to be wrong.....tell me why.

You are not wrong, kind of. The maximum current depends on where you plug into. If you connect to the 120V standard outlet (brown to red) then the maximum current is that supported by the brown CB since the blue CB is not in that circuit. If you connect to the brown-blue at the 30A outlet then the current is limited to whichever breaker trips first since both breakers are in series on that circuit, although, since the CB's are physically connected to each other both would trip anyway. In any case you would never pull more current than the original factory design allowed for at 120V. Agree?

Where I do agree is that if one winding opens then all the load will come from the other winding. Since the circuit is still protected as per the original factory wiring (no more current can flow through the CB's than in the original config) I would expect (hope) that a single winding would not open prior to the breaker tripping.

When I tested the Gen set originally, I purposely pulled a load to see where the breaker would trip. The breakers tripped at well above 30 amps but that was because the voltage dropped precipitously and the amperage increased very quickly. I would imagine the same thing would happen if one winding would open as in your scenario.

It would be better to protect each winding with a smaller breaker but that would no longer be a simple re-wire.

I guess that a simpler approach, and one that I am considering, would be to fuse the jumper between red and brown and the brown Gen lead prior to the post at 20 amps each. That way if one winding went open the most you could pull from the other would be 20 amps. A simple car fuse on each side would suffice.

But then I think, if one winding is gone, I really need a new Gen!
To summarize: The rewiring I drew does not ever permit a greater current flow from any one winding than the original wiring did.

IMO, I am not sure it's worth the bother.

I welcome your comments!