3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Richdel]

I just purchased the elim 3600ss.
I asked for a tech contact, I can't remember the name at this time, and he did cal me. He confirmed that all of the wattage was available at one of the 120v outlets.

After it arrived, I tested it with my house sump pump. The sump pump is rated at 13.5 amps (running). It ran the pump 3 times in a row with hesitation. If the 120volt outlets have 11.7amp breakers, I believe it would have tripped trying to start the pump motor. I always use a 2x factor on the running amperage to determine the starting amperage for a pump motor. That would make the starting amps 27amps. The surge current for this unit is 3200 watts, divided by 120 volt, gives an amperage of just under 27 amps (26.667 amps). Sorry I can't give you more techhnical info then this, but the documentation on these units leaves a lot to be desired.
I guess I could put a fluke meter on the outlet? Couldn't I? Not sure.

[professor95]

When I saw this unit I thought the same thing: Wheel kit, a shade quieter, and about the same weight. I thought I might upgrade from the ELIM 3000.
With the 120 volt split, does this mean that it is different from the ELIM 3000 in the fact that the voltage is not split?

According to the specs on the ELIM web site, the ELM3600SS is a 3KW unit with a continious rating of 2.8KW. Amperage available at 240 volts is 23. At 120 volts it is rated at 11.7 amps.

This leads me to believe it is NOT like the ELM3000 that provides full amperage to a single outlet. IMHO, keep the ELM3000 if you have a 30 amp TT connection.

[Barton_Family]

professor95 wrote:

JPearcy wrote:
So, who makes the ELM3600SS? Is it JiangDong, or some other company?

The sound rating of 65db is a little lower than the 3000's 67 db. What are your observations on this?

The wheel kit is nice too.

It also appears from the specs on your web site that this unit falls into the same (undesirable) category of having the current available at 120 volts split between two separate outlets - a real negative for RV use.

This unit is making me rethink the purchase of a Kipor 3500ti. Is this noise rating at full load? The Kipor is 60dB no load and 64dB full load. That seems pretty darn close and a WHOLE lot cheaper. Based on the posted specs of the ELM-3600SS, would I really need to do any rewiring? I use the 30 Amp outlet on my Generac, with an adapter for our camper's power plug. My needs might be a little different than most others since I have Lance Truck Camper and not a travel trailer or other RV type. Much smaller AC unit (7100 BTU or less).

I really wish I could set one of these next to my Generac 4000XL, and a Honda EU3000is just to see what kind of difference there is, real world, between the two. I am not worried about "inverter technology" as I don't run anything that would be affected by this off of my camper. I am most concerned about noise, period.

Opinions between the Kipor 3500ti and the ELM-3600SS??

[aktrvler]

[url=]

[MrWizard]

my generac RV genset ( TXP 4500 ) is need of repair

Parts are going to be a real Bear to find

already spent some time looking for them

so I went to Kragen and bought the little ? Champion 1200 watt for temporary use and backup after the main genny is repaired or replaced

well the adv says 1000 continuous & 1200 surge

all the documentation and the info on the generator says 1200 continuous and 1500 surge

it has done a real nice job of charging the batteries and it even carried the old tappan microwave and baked a potato in seven minutes .

voltage 111 volts with microwave on

have about 25 hours on it since Saturday when we picked it up ( already changed the break-in oil ) did that Monday morning.

guy walked over to me yesterday and ask me what where and how much, said it's quieter than his HONDA, he didn't say which Honda model he had ( likely older )

manual says 64db at 7 meter

all i know is it is comparable to my RV Generac Generator in noise level, maybe less , and we are not forced to move away from it in order to talk or be comfortable

Champion is listed as being Duarte ,Ca

the manual is written in decent English

I am curious as too who actually makes the engine and assembles the unit

it is an OHV 80cc 2.4hp 4-stroke NOT a 2-stroke, it has a 12volt charge function but I do NOT expect to use it, except maybe on somebody else's battery..

as I have the WFCO charger power unit installed/moded in my MH

NO dings or dents or oil leaks, gastank mounted fuel gauge and a panel mounted voltmeter, (1) 15 amp outlet

the voltage readings are normal and near equal on each side to ground and 120 across neutral to hot

and the manual says to ground the generator to a grounding rod before using.

FWTF the sound rating is 64 dB at 7 meter's

I can set it 6ft from the front door , an it doesn't bother us

in fact when i walk behind the coach, the radio playing 'jungle music' from the next site about 60ft away is louder than my little genny

[Superfreak]

Last week I posted about my wildfire generator not powering up the Dometic microwave and have been fiddling with it ever since. The micro worked fine with shore power but not with the genny. I went as far as trying a total of 3 different size and brand gennys with no luck. I ended up pulling the micro out of the TT any plugging it directly into the generator. Still nothing. So that eliminated anything with TT wiring and such. I went into the house and grabbed the Whirpool micro outta the kitchen and plugged it into the genny and voila it worked. Upon further inspection it was the exact same size as the Dometic. I unscrewed the mount from the Dometic, installed it on the Whirlpool(screw holes even matched)and put it in the TT. I wonder how long it'll take the wife to figure theres a different micro in the kitchen? So there must be something in the electronics of the micro that wasnt too fond of the genny. Dont know how many others may have this problem but thought I'd share what I'd found.
Rick

[Clark_W__Griswo]

professor95 wrote:
So, who makes the ELM3600SS? Is it JiangDong, or some other company?

The sound rating of 65db is a little lower than the 3000's 67 db. What are your observations on this?

The wheel kit is nice too.

It also appears from the specs on your web site that this unit falls into the same (undesirable) category of having the current available at 120 volts split between two separate outlets - a real negative for RV use.

When I saw this unit I thought the same thing: Wheel kit, a shade quieter, and about the same weight. I thought I might upgrade from the ELIM 3000.
With the 120 volt split, does this mean that it is different from the ELIM 3000 in the fact that the voltage is not split?

[professor95]

JPearcy wrote:
I also like the NEMA L14-30r outlet you mentioned, because it makes it straight foreward, especially when clearly marked. You can see an example of this on our ELM-3600SS at this link:

http://www.eliminatorusa.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=E13&Category_Code=GGEN

So, who makes the ELM3600SS? Is it JiangDong, or some other company?

The sound rating of 65db is a little lower than the 3000's 67 db. What are your observations on this?

The wheel kit is nice too.

It also appears from the specs on your web site that this unit falls into the same (undesirable) category of having the current available at 120 volts split between two separate outlets - a real negative for RV use.

[Curly2001]

I want to buy a 3500 Power Pro by Wen. Do I need to re-wire it for my 13,500 A/C???I just want to have a back up in case camp areas are full to use A/C if I need to. Thanks...Curly

[TeamSlacker]

Yup, I agree. I knew it was not normal, but when I buy something cheap, I expect to get what I paid for! I purchased the PowerWise locally at 'checker auto'. I went back to the store and talked to them about exchanging it for a new one as I was still within the stores 90 day exchange time frame. Only problem was, they were already discontinuing it, only had one left in the store, and that one had a puddle of oil underneath it also. So I choose to just keep the one I had and worry about fixing it after it really broke. I do change the oil every other time I take it to the track. Have to admit, I never thought of just pulling the breather hose out of the airbox and let it vent. I'll have to do that and give it a good sea foam bath at the end of the season.

jht wrote:

I talked to the distributer, DuroPower. They claim this is not normal & are sending me another generator. If the next one does the same thing, I'll have to assume that's the nature of this beast & deal with it. I will let the breather vent to the atmosphere so it will not foul the engine & filter. This may not make the EPA happy, but the engine & I will be! Not only will the spark plug get carbon on it, I guarantee the intake valve will have large carbon deposits on the bottom side as well. This will take a noticable toll on performance over time. It could also lead to an increase in the compression ratio if enough carbon builds up in the combustion chamber, which will lead to detonation & a burned piston. At that point the engine will be trash. If you're going to continue using yours as is, I would recommed changing the oil often, as this blowby is contaminating the crankcase. I will let you know the outcome when I get the new unit.

[MrWizard]

brandyspaw wrote:
So you can't run the ELM3000 on 220v without rewiring but it can be run on 110v without rewiring?

Wow, I can see where we can get confused on the selection of one of these generators
!

NO !

you can run things that need 220 volts on their windings

you can NOT plug in a 50 amp 220 RV cord and get ( 2) 110 volt circuits in your RV

NOR can you just run a cord/pigtail from the 220 socket into a HOUSE breaker panel

[jht]

"Mine was driping oil out the crank seal the first weekend I used it. It also has the same symptoms as yours, wet/leaking air box from blow-by. Pull your plug out and you'll probably find lots of carbon deposits. I've run mine for 5 full weekends this summer so far, so about 180 hours. And it just keeps going. I just throw a rag under it and let it do it's thing."

I talked to the distributer, DuroPower. They claim this is not normal & are sending me another generator. If the next one does the same thing, I'll have to assume that's the nature of this beast & deal with it. I will let the breather vent to the atmosphere so it will not foul the engine & filter. This may not make the EPA happy, but the engine & I will be! Not only will the spark plug get carbon on it, I guarantee the intake valve will have large carbon deposits on the bottom side as well. This will take a noticable toll on performance over time. It could also lead to an increase in the compression ratio if enough carbon builds up in the combustion chamber, which will lead to detonation & a burned piston. At that point the engine will be trash. If you're going to continue using yours as is, I would recommed changing the oil often, as this blowby is contaminating the crankcase. I will let you know the outcome when I get the new unit.

[LittleBill]

good thing u mentioned that professor, i almost ran the genny in 220v to the house the other day, i will get to wiring my plug correctly, any way to verify the wiring was done correctly with a volt meter?

[brandyspaw]

So you can't run the ELM3000 on 220v without rewiring but it can be run on 110v without rewiring?

Wow, I can see where we can get confused on the selection of one of these generators
.
Also, I have a question-is the ELM3000 is the least noisy of the Chinese knock off generators? I recall reading back in the 100+ pages that the Champion 3500
was pretty noisy but without a decibel meter it would seem this is rather subjective matter.
Thanks to all who contributed to this great thread!

[TeamSlacker]

jht wrote:
I recently purchased one of these Chinese gensets. I've noticed that there is a considerable amount of blowby (posiitive pressure with visible smoke & oily vapor) from the valve cover when I remove the breather line that goes from the valve cover to the air filter assy. Has anybody else noticed this, or removed the line to see how their engine is performing? I'm curious if I've got a defective engine - rings not seating properly, or this is common with this type of engine (JiangDong). I've got about 11 hrs on it & have taken my time breaking it in.

Mine was driping oil out the crank seal the first weekend I used it. It also has the same symptoms as yours, wet/leaking air box from blow-by. Pull your plug out and you'll probably find lots of carbon deposits. I've run mine for 5 full weekends this summer so far, so about 180 hours. And it just keeps going. I just throw a rag under it and let it do it's thing.