3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

I looked at the two and saw that the Champion was 3500 rated and 4400 surge while the Power Pro was 3000 rated and 3500 surge. There didn't seem to be much difference between the two other than that.

These ratings can be misleading, inaccurate and confusing. Most all of these generators have slow trip breakers that will allow an overcurrent for a predetermined amount of time (usually 2 seconds or less) then they trip if the current continues to exceed the rating of the breaker. Bottom line..... look at the rating of the generator's circuit breaker(s). This is your safety link. The generator cannot provide more power to a device than the breaker will allow. You can multiply the voltage by the breaker value to get the wattage. For example, 110 volts thru a 15 amp breaker will yield a maximum of 1,650 watts. Keep in mind too that a 15 amp breaker is actually designed to sustain a current at 80% of its value. This means that continuous currents over 1,320 watts may cause the breaker to trip after a few minutes due to temperature rise inside the breaker. This applies to both magnetic and thermal breakers since magnetic breakers also have a thermal element.

The tendency to overrate generators for marketing purposes seems to be commonplace.

[professor95]

Just joined the forum. Have read most of the posts wow, Have a dumb question the 5er I just bought has a 50 amp plug 15kw ac and I believe a 700 to 800 watt microwave oven. Will one of the power pro 3500 units run my ac and micro at same time or ac and TV ?

If I need to post this question elsewhere please let me know

Thanks in advance

MR. Lucky

Your 50 amp 5er actually has two separate 50 amp 120 volt circuits, where as a 30 Amp TT has a single 30 amp circuit. If memory serves me correctly, the PowerPro 3500 will deliver 1,560 watts (13 amps) per leg, or 3,120 watts total combined. If your microwave and AC are on different branches of your 50 amp service, and you feed each branch separately from the PP, it might handle both at the same time - but it will be a real strain for the side with the AC. You may also need to turn off the converter in the camper and be sure the frig is on propane and not electric to power the AC. Your AC will pull right at 1,500 watts, which does not leave much room. Starting current will be higher and may kick the PP breaker.

Most of the folks on this forum have made a simple internal wiring change to their PP units to allow full wattage (3,000 watts) from one 120 volt outlet rather than breaking it across two outlets. The only downside to this is the generator will no longer deliver 220 volts - which you do not need on your 5er. If I were you, I would use an adapter on the 5er to combine the power cord into a single 30 amp connector and convert the PP to a high wattage 120 volt only unit, plug it into the 5er and run it that way. Wiring diagrams and photos on how to change the PP to a high wattage 120 volt only unit have been posted on this forum - you just need to search back.

'course others on the forum may have different opinions - but that is what this forum is all about - sharing ideas (and opinions)!

[mr_lucky]

Greetings one and all,

Just joined the forum. Have read most of the posts wow, Have a dumb question the 5er I just bought has a 50 amp plug 15kw ac and I believe a 700 to 800 watt microwave oven. Will one of the power pro 3500 units run my ac and micro at same time or ac and TV ?

If I need to post this question elsewhere please let me know

Thanks in advance

MR. Lucky

[AZDesertRat]

Pep Boys had the Power Pro 3500 for $249 here in Phoenix on Friday. I took the ad to Checker auto and got their Champion 3500 for 5% off that amount or $237. I looked at the two and saw that the Champion was 3500 rated and 4400 surge while the Power Pro was 3000 rated and 3500 surge. There didn't seem to be much difference between the two other than that. I have seen the link to rewiring the Power Pro for all 120v but is there a detailed page showing the same for the Champion?

[prospecter]

anybody know if you can put electic start on a power pro 3500???
just got mine at pepboys 269.00 black friday sale..
happy holidays to all

[blazer8]

That's a great buy for a great little generator. I am very happy with mine.

[kneisl1]

Pep Boys is selling the PP 3500 here in nj for $280 on sale for Black Friday.

[fallsrider]

professor95 wrote:
I hope this helps some of you who have been looking for a parts source.

circuit breakers

It's a start...thanks, professor!

[Marine_Guy]

This is in reply to the below post: Yes, many carbs have a 'drain' plug at the bottom of the float. This is primarily to remove water accumulation and heavy sediment - just as in a fuel/water seperator filter on a diesel engine, etc. If you look at an empty but closed can of paint, what is left over has evaporated into a solid. An empty fuel bowel or carburetor interior will end up the same way. Yes, there are propably times when we can get away with it, but . . . As far as fuel going bad with a stabilizer in it, this is true, but not as fast as it will go down hill without it.

All the best.
Rob

In an engine that's been run "dry", there's really not much fuel left in the carb to go bad. Also, some carbs have a drain plug at the bottom of the fuel bowl.

Fuel that has been treated with stabilizers eventually goes bad, too.

[Skibane]

98clru wrote:
Power Pro 3500 battery charging option:

Has anyone had a chance to use the battery charger on this generator? The manual leads me to believe that the charger is "uncontrolled" in that output is constant no matter what the charge level, yet on the front of the generator it mentions "automatic" (dropping amperage as charge level comes up until its a trickle?).

The battery charger on almost every portable generator is unregulated. However, the charging current will "automatically" taper off as the battery starts to reach a full state of charge, simply because its voltage has risen to almost the same voltage as the charger puts out.

Unless you're charging a very small battery, the unregulated output isnt likely to do much damage over a few days of operation. For example, a Group 27 battery can easily tolerate several amps of charge current after it's reached a full charge - It would probably cause excessive water loss over a period of weeks or months, but not over the several days that a generator is likely to be operated.

My 3500 is putting out 6 volts, is that typical?

Typically, the output is around 14 volts. Are you sure that you're using the DC setting on your voltmeter? Also,. the generator's output is unfiltered DC, which sometimes causes inaccurate meter readings.

[professor95]

I have had several folks recently who have e-mailed me asking if I knew of another source for larger circuit breakers to use when rewiring their 120/240 volt generators to just 120 volt. The following link will take you to a .jpg image I have placed on photobucket.com that I scanned from a Northern Tool and Equipment Company parts catalog. While the thermal/magnetic circuit breakers are the best, any one of the thermal circuit breakers would work well too. If you should select a thermal magnetic breaker(s) don't forget you will probably need to order 4 mounting clips as well.

I hope this helps some of you who have been looking for a parts source.

circuit breakers

Edit added 11/22/05
It appears that my photo hosting service reduces the size of the image so that it is unreadable. I will find some other way to post the page and add a new link soon. Sorry!

[98clru]

Power Pro 3500 battery charging option:

Has anyone had a chance to use the battery charger on this generator? The manual leads me to believe that the charger is "uncontrolled" in that output is constant no matter what the charge level, yet on the front of the generator it mentions "automatic" (dropping amperage as charge level comes up until its a trickle?). Don't have the time to constantly remove the battery and test charge level but don't want to burn it up either.

My 3500 is putting out 6 volts, is that typical?

Thanks for all the help.

edit for punctuation.

[blazer8]

Now I know why the store didn't have any!

[Skibane]

You could always pick up an 8-pack from Manny, Moe & Jack on ebay...

[blazer8]

Good luck getting two. When I went they only had one on the first day of the sale.