โMar-02-2005 06:20 AM
professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.
In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.
Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.
What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.
Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.
I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.
Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.
No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.
Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.
Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.
We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.
Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.
Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.
This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......
Randy
For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at โcloningโ reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a โrunningโ display model.
I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:
Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)
The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. โSupposedlyโ Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.
The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for โabove average qualityโ Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.
The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.
ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an โavailability listingโ.
The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings โ most likely universally available.
The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is โreasonablyโ quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a โlook alikeโ eng...
โFeb-21-2006 12:48 PM
โFeb-21-2006 10:42 AM
Any more info on these units? I am looking for one for my popup, which doesnt have A/C. The biggest thing I am worried about is the noise level. DONT TELL ME to buy a Honda or Yamaha.... I cant afford one. Thats why I have a `81 popup.....
โFeb-21-2006 10:03 AM
youth4him wrote:
Just an fyi:
I saw in "heartland america" that they carry a 1000w with 12vdc genset for $200. It's 15x12x14, so small, but no idea on the noise level. For those of you looking for a pretty small one and if you don't have a/c, that might be an option.
I have no info on it other than what's on the site, and just thought I'd pass it along...
http://www.heartlandamerica.com/item/default.asp?SKU=50536&r=a1&f=f
โFeb-20-2006 05:26 PM
โFeb-18-2006 07:27 PM
โFeb-18-2006 03:49 PM
I will be rewirings to a single "parallel winding" 120V service as is shown in earlier posts with 15A breakers per winding and then 20A breakers for each recpt. I had planned on doing this initially and recommend it for anyone using the champion generator. As you mentioned it is only a matter of time and heat until insulation failure if you continously exceed 15 Amps on a winding. (Use of #10 for common neutral should not be overlooked)
โFeb-18-2006 03:43 PM
Well I finally picked up one of the champion generators the other day. After taking it out of the box I noticed that the right breaker switch button seems to be "stuck" in. The one just to the left of it is not "stuck" in. I am not speaking of the DC breaker switch. Is this normal?
โFeb-18-2006 09:36 AM
Gilitar wrote:
Well I finally picked up one of the champion generators the other day. After taking it out of the box I noticed that the right breaker switch button seems to be "stuck" in. The one just to the left of it is not "stuck" in. I am not speaking of the DC breaker switch. Is this normal? I do notice that the buttons seem to be constructed a little different. If you own a champion please look at your generator and let me know.
โFeb-17-2006 04:21 PM
โFeb-17-2006 03:58 PM
โFeb-17-2006 09:33 AM
โFeb-16-2006 03:42 AM
Dear Prof this is xxxxxxxxxxxxx heres a note I got from Paul Cole: Hello xxxxx,I'm pushing a tight time frame tonight, but I would like to comment that the professor answered in a very well taken approach. Working closely with the factory, we know we(are)attaining break point with our generator. Cost is always a factor, and our R and D pushes our tests to the limit. Unfortunately, most users do not treat our generator with even the slightest consideration. Their purchase is (not) worth a darn until they need warranty work or an exchange. They fail to send in (the)warranty card at least 50+ % of the time. The only time they value their purchase is when it stops performing. Then it becomes the biggest pile of (junk) money can buy. If they treated their car the same way, it would be in trouble too. Our gens sell at a fair price and we also have a good warranty with excellent support after the sale. With the low price factor we always get people affording things they probably should not own. Its not or never will be a perfect world!! Just thought you might understand my view. In closing, two things, 1) I answered the guy from xxxxxx, since he emailed me and (I) sent him a lengthy reply. No reply (back)yet. 2) Is there a chance you might have the professors email address? I would like to compliment him on his reply/ies. He has been fair in his reply to everyone and still does a good job at getting his point across. As with all generators, there are a thousand variables, such as price, materials, support, parts availability, and unforeseen defects and abuse by customers. It will also be a "Go Figure" situation. Thanks for your bird dog work, xxxxxxxxxxx.
Paul Cole - Technical Engineer
Champion Power Equipment
10006 Santa Fe Springs Rd
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
Toll-Free 877-338-0999 X107 (weekdays)
Local no.562-236-9420
Fax no. 562-236-9429
Cell no. 626-230-5248 (24 hrs.) Voicemail
Website and Frequently Asked Questions go to
www.cpeauto.com
--
โFeb-15-2006 09:22 PM
professor95 wrote:
There is a possibility Champion may be using a larger gauge wire in their windings, creating excess capacity that can handle 20 amps in one winding.
โFeb-15-2006 05:15 PM
โFeb-15-2006 07:12 AM
AZDesertRat wrote:
bought the Champion and am very happy with it. It runs my 13.5 Brisk Air AC, microwave, TV and all the lights at once. I even cycled the AC quite a bit and it just barely changes pitch when the AC cycles back on and nothing drops out or dims. I've used it to run my salt water reef tank with about 1000 watts of light, 1/4 HP chiller and 9 pumps and all is well with it too.
I first tried it on the 15A side of the twist lock and duplex outlet and it would not start the AC unit but once I switched to the 20 A side no problem. Kinda scared me!