3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[MrWizard]

I did a few wiring and voltage checks this morning

when the switch is in the 120 volt mode only the 30 amp RV outlet and the 20 amp 120 outlet have power

the twist lock does not have any power in the 120v mode

with the switch in the 240 volt mode ONLY the twist lock has power ( 240 volts )

the RV outlet and 20amp outlet are NOT powered

under a no load cold start I measued 123 volts and 246 volts

with the RV plugged in and the converter charging the batteries I measured 126 volts

I did not do an AC amps check, NOR did i check the charge rate at the batteries

and i forgot to check it when I was using the microwave ( to busy thinking about baked potatoes )

here is picture of buisness end of the generator head

the gray unit in the lower left quadrant is the voltage regulator
the number of wires seems to indicate a quality unit with voltage and possibly current control

leaving the govenor to control only the frequency

[Tonka_Truck]

The Northern Tool link for the Generator Lifting strap is:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_756324_756324&issearch=165921

[Tonka_Truck]

Regarding my Genlift sling comment. I made mine from four tie-down straps. At home I installed a large "eye" bolt in the garage door header. My come-a-long (or a boat wench) hooks into the opposite end hooks on the tie down straps. The tie down straps hook onto the frame where they cannot scoot towards each other. Other gensets (no cross bars, or one) may want to use the Norther Tools factory made as it has a small pipe between straps to stop scooting. I bring mine up, back the truck under it and let it down. Then use a tree or a helper when at the campsite to unload. I can pick up and unload without the straps, but why if you don't need to? I'm 6'2" and 225lbs and use the sling.

[Tonka_Truck]

I wrote Paul Cole on the xxx40 sparkplugs, answer posted below, and info on wheel kit too. I use a 4 point web sling to load and unload, with a manual come-a-long, if I don't have a helper, Northren Tools catalog for source.
Earlier post had been concerned about old/bad gas in tank. Paul offered his method, I think I will install a petcock!

Hello Don,
Great choice of generators. This has just been released for sale. When running in sub freezing temperatures, heat range on the spark plugs is more critical for starting than running. Since the engine always has a fresh and cool air supply, I would recommend using a hotter range plug such as a NGK B-6ES or B-7ES for coldest and the colder temps (40F to 70F) I wouldn’t worry about a cold rated spark plug until sustained 80f or above. The wheel kit can be ordered directly from our factory by calling the toll free no. and hit O for the operator. This will connect you to the factory parts center in CA. The kit is $25 plus shipping. It was a decision on Checkers auto buyers to keep the price lower by eliminating the wheel kit: Go figure!!

When removing the fuel, I always use an “Oklahoma credit card” (siphon hose) to drain the tank. About a 4-5 foot hose of 5/16” or 3/8” fuel line available at any auto supply will work. If you have never siphoned before, it is a matter of drawing the air out with your mouth carefully with the hose in a vertical position and then quickly lowering the hose to allow gravity to let the gas flow out.



Hope this will help you. Call or write me anytime if you need any assistance. We have a 24hr. tech line phone no. for help. The no. is 626-230-5248.



Best regards,



Paul Cole

Sr. Tech.

Champion Power Equipment

[Accurate]

The manual I got with my xxxx35 says follow fill instructions in the Engine Owners Manual.
There it says Remove oil fill cap/dipstick [duh]
Add .6L oil and replace the cap/dipstick.
Check to make sure oil level registers on the dipstick.

Therefore, I think I'll go by your manual as your 40 is the same engine as my 35.

I think I'm spending more time on this forum than I am messing aro with my new toy.

Thanks

KenS

[Tonka_Truck]

The oil level in my xxx40 owners manual shows that bottom of fill hole is Min and top of threads is Max. It also shows to check the oil WITHOUT screwing in the dip stick plug. That's why there is no "full" mark on it, any oil on XXXXX markings of stick would be between Min and Max. I had the same 6 1/2 hp motor on my previous gen set too. Of course, that's assuming genset is level! I found that starting useage with oil on MIN that the low oil cut-off switch will come on sooner. If it starts surging up and down or starts and runs about 5-10 mins and then acts like cutting out. Check the oil level first, when the switch is activated, acts like running out of gas even if tank is full.
The xxx40 fully powered my 23'TT microwave and A/C and pumped water etc.. My earlier NAKOTA (sic) would not.

[VDOCAD]

After the Professor's lenthly explanation regarding running old motors with portable generators, would it be possible to get the proud owners of a new "RV Ready" Campion generator to report their findings as to whether or not they had difficulty running their A/C with it, and to specify the age of the unit(MH/Trailer)? Actual field experience may be an invaluable tool for those of us with older RVs who are still undecided about this particular generator. Any replies will be greatly appreciated.

Professor:
What I do not understand very well is, why is it that running the A/C from a 15 amp branch circuit is no problem(I tested it, the A/C starts right up), but it may be an issue from a portable generator that puts out 29 amps out of the RV outlet. If the "kick in the pants" is the amps, it seems the generator has plenty to offer.

[Accurate]

Thank You MrWizard. I'll check gap on the plug that's in it [2hrs run] and let you know.
I'll be keeping .030 in mind.

I think I may have my oil too full as I filled it until it ran out the fill hole as I do on my lawn edger [no dip stick]

I read here some where I may be creating a blow by issue with the crankcase too full

KenS

[MrWizard]

if my memory is correct ,it's 30 thousanths

I called champion tech support to find out what was for my C46540

yours is the same engine and same spark gap

[Accurate]

I've looked through both engine & owners manual for the gap setting for this unit and do not see it spec'd anywhere.
I want to change my plug to an NGK B8ES as it is hot here and will be used continuous during power outages [many]

Anyone seen the plug gap spec ???

Also my C46535 does say to oil the air filter element via a sticker applied to the cover of the filter box.

Thanks

KenS

[dogzpaws]

Prof,

Thanks for your input on the matter. Your knowledge and experiences in the subject are invaluable.

[Sonic1954]

Just a quick update on the Champion that I converted SEVERAL pages back. I now has over 700 hours runtime on it and still going. It does get a regular oil change and the air filter cleaned regularly. Change the oil every 48 hours if you are running continusiouly. Change it on every outing if you are just doing weekend trips. Don't forget the AIR FILTER. Giving your motor dirty air is just like you smoking. Sooner or later, it ain't going to be good for it.

I no longer own this gen set, not because it was bad, it was because I did not need it and my Uncle did. I have 2 Honda 3000eu's that I run daily. One has over 5000 hours on it!

[professor95]

Professor,

Can you explain why "grounding is not an issue" when running the gen in the back of a pickup? Is that method theoretically safer than running the gen while it's sitting on the ground? I am thinking back to much earlier posts about grounding rods, open circuits, surge protectors, etc.

Thanks

No, the warnings in those earlier postings still apply. What I should have said was, “Grounding is no more of an issue with the generator sitting in the back of the pickup than any other location.”

Sorry about that omission….. But, you have given me an opportunity to break into another lengthy electricity/RV/generator safety discussion.

You most likely completely understand everything I am about to write. But, let's walk through the system slowly in case there is a reader who might not fully understand.

Conventional 120 VAC power systems, like the one that supplies your house and camper when hooked up in a RV park, have three service conductors. One is a dedicated neutral that is at true ground potential.

Another is the so called hot wire.

The third wire is the grounding conductor. The grounding conductor runs parallel to the neutral conductor and also physically connects to earth ground.

The grounding conductor is not supposed to carry any current unless there is a fault. An example of a fault would be if the hot conductor happened to come in contact with a current carrying material (metal). Without the grounding conductor, which is required to be bonded to current carrying materials easily accessed, there would be a 120 volt potential waiting for you to touch it. When someone does touch it, the circuit is complete and current will flow causing a pretty harsh shock. Now, if the grounding conductor is there, power from such a fault will flow safely to ground and the overload device should trip, or cut the circuit off.

Your camper is very similar, but it is not physically bonded to ground. There is no physical connection between the neutral wire and the grounding wire in the camper’s wiring as you would find in your home's service panel. The two are separate and only connected externally when we plug into “shore power”. In reality, your camper is an appliance that plugs into an electrical supply - just like a blender, TV or toaster oven in your home. The biggest difference is that this is an appliance you can live inside of - thus, your potential exposure to electrical faults is dramatically increased. Again, the only connection the camper has to ground is through the power supply conductors. So, if a fault occurs in the camper electrical system or an appliance in the camper and there is no path to earth ground for the grounding conductor at the supply source, it can make the entire metal framework on a camper hot. An example of the consequences of such a fault might be when an unsuspecting person places one foot on the metal step or grabs the metal door latch and has another foot on earth ground. In this situation we have a complete circuit to ground that can cause a painful, in not fatal, shock (if there is a fault). This happened to me a number of years back while camping at the beach. Fortunately, I was not hurt. But it taught me an important lesson!

Unfortunately, we usually have no control over the condition of the power supply to the camper we encounter in campgrounds. We simply "trust" that it is wired correctly and is safe.

OK - now that we have established what a normal power supply to a camper is and how a fault in that service can hurt you, let's take a look at a generator as a power source.

The key word here is source. In order to make electricity, a gas engine must spin a magnet inside a coil of wire (or a coil of wire inside a magnet). The coil of wire has two conductors. Either one can be called “neutral” and the other “hot”. This is because a generator is not naturally connected to an earth ground. At this point it makes no difference what-is-what in the two wires supplying power to the camper since we do not have a true ground connected. Such an arrangement is said to be isolated from ground. If true isolation does exist, we can stick our finger in either slot of a generator outlet (one at a time, not together), stand on wet dirt with bare feet, and we would not receive a shock. It is sort of like a bird sitting on a wire. Neither one of these two generator supply wires is connected to the generator frame. The frame is said to be electrically “cold”.

The third wire running from the camper - the grounding wire - should end up bonded to the generator frame. But, at this point it is also isolated from true ground. If every thing from the camper’s power cord plug back into the circuit breaker box and to the outlets is OK, there will be no problem feeding from this isolated power source. But, if a fault occurs, where is it going to go?

If you guessed that the fault would make everything in the camper that was originally bonded to the expected grounding conductor, including the camper frame and the generator frame, directly connected to one of the wires from the generator, you get a 100 points.

Now for the second question. Is the above fault dangerous?

The answer to that question is sort of like asking which chamber has the bullet in Russian roulette, or climbing the face of a rock cliff without a safety line. Hopefully, you will never know that there is a potential time bomb ticking away. But, without the expected safety line to ground you have set yourself up to get quite a jolt if you should contact the conductive parts of the camper and the other side of the generator line. This issue is why you will find a grounding connection on the frame of a generator - it is suppose to physically be connected to earth ground.

You may be scratching your head and thinking, “But it would require two faults to get shocked.” This is true, and the odds of having both faults at the same time may seem pretty small. Still, the risk is there since you do not have a true ground from the generator to the camper, or from the camper's frame directly to ground.

Soooooo…… what do you do when powering your camper from a generator? (Actually, the following is desirable for any power source.)

Number one is to be absolutely sure there is no connection between neutral and the grounding conductor in your camper. You do this by using an “ohm meter”. On a camper with a 30 amp 120 volt service, unplug the camper from the power source and hold the camper’s plug so you are looking at the prongs. The “U” shaped grounding conductor should be on the top. In this position, the blade on your right would connect to the power source’s neutral and the one on your left would connect to the hot wire in the power source. Set the ohm meter to the lowest resistance scale (usually 200 ohms). Now touch one probe from the ohm meter to the “U” shaped blade and the other to the blade on your right. You should NOT get a reading at all. No reading means that there is no connection between neutral and the grounding buss anywhere in the camper. Again, this is GOOD. You should also NOT get a reading when checking between the left blade and the “U” blade. You WILL get a reading between the left and right blades (REMEMBER, you are NOT plugged into a power source when you make this test).

If you get a reading indicating a connection between either one of the flat blades and the “U” blade, you have a fault in your camper’s electrical system that should be corrected. This type of fault can go unnoticed because your electrical system seems to work fine.

Number two is to create a true ground between the camper’s frame and the generator’s frame. While a 4 to 8 foot copper-clad rod driven into the ground is desirable, it just is not pratical at a campsite. Still, you can improve your “safety odds” by using one automotive jumper cable with good heavy alligator clamps on both ends. Clamp one end to your camper frame. The connection point should be free of paint and rust. You can also clamp it to the negative terminal on your camper’s battery since it is bonded to the camper’s frame. Clamp the other end to a metal pipe for a water faucet or any metal object driven into the ground. If you don’t have one of these at your campsite, drive a 12” or longer unpainted or galvanized metal tent stake (or pipe)into the ground, the longer the better. Hopefully, there will be some moisture in the dirt to improve conductivity. For those thinking ahead of me - yes, the metal foot on your camper's tongue jack contacting ground is better than nothing. But this is surface contact and the conductivity can be "iffy".

Some may think all of this is ridiculous. Perhaps it is “over kill”. Still, it is better to be informed of the risks involved and to be safe rather than sorry. Personally, I always try to ground my camper’s frame when I set up – even when I am not using a generator.

[Accurate]

Well my quest for an hour meter for this unit has ended.
A couple years ago the outboard motor on my boat scored a cylinder wall.
I had to get at "new rebuilt" 225HP Merc. and I purchased an hour meter for the boat at that time.
My son is an Outboard Motor Tech at one of the Marinas here. So I went over there and and found a digital RPM/Hour Meter there that will fit the bill nicely.[$34 out the door with his discount]

While the gen is running it displays the engine RPM's when you shut down it diplays the hours run.
It is factory pre-programed by Yamaha to alert at 10 hours & there after every 50 hours for service intervals.

For anyone interested it's Yamaha Part #ENG-METER-4C-02.
You can screw it on the the front panel with a couple of supplied self tapping screws OR you can attach it with a supplied velcro strip [that's me].

You wrap the supplied wire around your spark plug wire 4-5 time and secure it with a supplied cable tie.

MANY THANKS to CamperDave for the links to the mods I'll need to put all the output to the duplex recepts. Saved me ALOT of reading.
I'll wait until I get 5 hours on this unit before I do the mods.

So far I've tested unit with a Wal-Mart pedestal fan
My 15 Amp Mitre Saw [burps when starting this bad boy]
& a 5 HP wet/dry vac [little burp]

So far I'm very impressed by this $300 dollar unit.

When I get to 5 hours I'll re-wire and I also read a post in here some where on quieting the the fan side at the fly wheel by using some RTV on the plastic fan. And who ever did that post is right, most of the noise is mechanical not exhaust.
This thing is quiter out of the box than my 16 year-old Coleman 1450.

Many Thanks to all for you valuable input!!!

KenS

[professor95]

Prof, thanks for your input-your knowledge on this subject appears to be impressive. You mentioned you've tried this before. I derive from your description that you chose not to use this method in your current situation. Have you found a better solution or was it just not practical to exhaust the generator? I would think heat would not be an issue given the large volume in the bed of the truck. I'm curious if it would be quieter in the truck versus the cover you proposed in a previous post.

I am sorry I was not more specific in my response.

I have a fiberglass cap over the bed of my tow vehicle. The cap has the customary window over the tailgate that pops up when you open the back. There are also two side windows that slide open.

In my "collection" of generators is a Kawasaki 1400, circa "about" 1986. My measurements of sound levels with the Kawasaki are in the 64-65 dB range at the magical 23 feet.

Last October Nancy and I made out annual fall trip up to Big Meadows o...