3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Po_Boy1]

Thanks Toka Truck and CabanaBoy. I'll definitely be getting me one of those.

Breambuster - your question is covered in the manual, I put in 10W-30.

[Breambuster]

Got my Champion delivered yesterday! Cant wait to actually use it. One question though- What weight oil are you all using in the gen.?

[cicamper]

Po_Boy wrote:
Anyone aware of a "wheels" kit for the Champion C46540?

I called Champion this morning per a previous post - there is a wheel kit avail. I called Matt at 888.696.0688 x104 and confirmed that it is $29.99 plus shipping. FedEx ground to central IL was $10.32.

[Tonka_Truck]

err two pages back and 25.00 for wheel kit.

[Tonka_Truck]

Wheels Kit....
Go back one page, see my posting on spark plugs in there... direct from Champion $20.00........

[Po_Boy1]

Anyone aware of a "wheels" kit for the Champion C46540?

[cicamper]

Professor95-
I (I assume a lot of interested persons are) have been lurking for quite a while on this topic, and would like to thank you and all of the others for the diligence, research and information sharing that has turned this into a 220 page thread.
That said, I (based on reading here) purchased the Champion C46540 last week through PartsAmerica.com and it arrived UPS yesterday. You couldn't wipe the grin off of my face as I peeled out of the parking lot to go play with the new toy...er tool. This thing started quite easily - my 12 year old can get it running on the 2nd pull. It is quieter than a lawn mower, and you can talk over it at 7 meters. (this info may be repeat - no flames please - first time posting).
I will test with the RV this weekend. I have a 13.5 BTU AC, but no microwave. I did run my 13 amp miter saw which caused the jennie to belch for a second. Shop vac ran fine. I am getting ready to put other loads on as well...
In terms of fit an finish, the unit came very well packaged with quality materials. The paint is flawless and had a solid feel to the controls. The owners manual is a little thin, but does provide break out diagrams with part reordering info, which is a relief. I am trying to break in gently until the 5 hour oil change. The real test of its mettle will be over the 4th of July holiday with 4 days of boondocking.
Thanks again to all who provided input.

[madbare]

So has there been any more info on possibly an "Upgrade Kit" for the older Champion units to the RV ready type?

[VDOCAD]

Professor, once again, thank you for your detailed explanation.
I hope someone will respond as to whether the new "RV Ready" geny works on older A/C units.

[Walrus127]

Accurate the post you are looking is on page 209

Tonka Truck wrote:

Good Grief, that one may have a mech. problem causing noise. My new Champion C46540 is slightly louder than my Nikota I've used for several years. Most of that comes from a rat-a-tat-tat from the pull starter area.


Your right!

My Champion C46540 is now quiet! This is what I found. The cooling fan on these engines are not cast with the flywheel as found on older engines but is a separate piece of plastic held only by the flywheel/starter cup nut. This apparently causes some vibration/oscillation with the fan while running. Some may be worse than others as mine was very loud.

The cure?
I removed the start recoil (10mm x 3)
than the housing (10mm x 4). Next the flywheel nut (19mm x 1).
The plastic flywheel will fall off, I cleaned the flywheel surface and backside of the fan to remove any grease or oil than ran a bead of silicone around the center hole and around the outside of the flywheel leaving a gap for the ignition magnet. Put the whole thing back together and let it set for 24 hours. (well, 19 hours - I couldn't wait to hear the results!).

QUIET! Not that much louder than my Honda 1000 inverter unit!
And to think I almost sold it at work last night!

Now for the test. Will it hold together? I think so. Did I void the warranty? At this point I don't care. I'm just so happy it is as quiet as everyone elses!

Happy boondocking

Hope this helps.

[MrWizard]

I think it's in another thread

all that is needed is to remove the recoil starter (3) bolts

and then remove the shroud (4) bolts

run a bead of ATV or similar adhesive around the edge of the plastic fan

you can remove the shaft nut and remove the fan to apply the ATV

OR do as I did and simply pull on the fan a little and squeeze/rub the ATV between the fan and the flywheel

allow to set overnight and if there is any rattleing of the fan it will disappear

several people have reported have a loose fan making a lot of racket and that this solved the problem

if i find the thread i will post the link

[Accurate]

MrWizard:

Do you recall what page the instructions were on for the fan quieting mod?

Thanks

KenS

[MrWizard]

well i did the ATV bead on the plastic engine fan last night

really can't notice much difference in noise level or type of sound with this genny ,

so I guess , i have/had one of the tight ones

[professor95]

VDOCAD wrote:
Professor:
What I do not understand very well is, why is it that running the A/C from a 15 amp branch circuit is no problem(I tested it, the A/C starts right up), but it may be an issue from a portable generator that puts out 29 amps out of the RV outlet. If the "kick in the pants" is the amps, it seems the generator has plenty to offer.

Good question. To answer it properly I need to spend a moment talking about circuit breakers and 15 amp branch circuits.

A residential type circuit breaker has both a magnetic and thermal trip mechanism. For the magnetic trip mechanism to work, we need sufficient current in a coil of wire around an iron core to create an electromagnetic field strong enough to pull in a release lever that opens the circuit. For the thermal trip mechanism to work we need to have enough current flowing in a bi-metallic strip inside the breaker to make it distort and hit the trip lever. The circuit breaker is designed to protect the circuit it feeds, not you. Therefore there is a lag or delay in the time it takes to trip a breaker.

In the case of the 15 amp breaker in your house, the buss bar the breaker is attached to is most likely being protected by a 200 amp main breaker, and that main breaker is most likely being protected by a 1,000 amp breaker at the transformer. All have a time delay or trip lag.

When your AC starts on the 15 amp residential branch circuit, the 15 amp breaker allows a "surge" of current to pass that is only limited by the available current. We have hopefully established that the available current can be 1,000 amps or more for a brief period of time (usually 80 to 200 msec). This available current surge is enough to get the air conditioner compressor motor past the initial locked rotor current demand without triping the breaker or exceeding the available current the circuit can offer.

A gasoline driven generator simply does not have a current reserve comparable to a residential circuit. When an electric motor or other device needs a high surge of current, the generator craps out because the demand is beyond the capacity. This is why many manufacturers recommend buying a generator that has a surge rating that is at least 2-1/2 times the rated wattage of the appliance(s) you want to run. Fortunately, the start or locked rotor currents on many devices have dropped due to improvements in design. Thus, we can often fudge on the 2-1/2 times rule.

[Accurate]

Ref: Plug Gap C46535 + Heat Range

Mr Wizard was right on...

I pulled the supplied plug which was a NHSP LD F6TC, checked the gap on it [only 1.7Hrs] it was .030"

Replaced this plug with the NGK B8ES[aka 2411] Gapped it of course at .030.

Cranked the the unit [started 1st pull as always]

Low & behold the RPM was only 3560 [3680 with the F6TC]

As the unit warmed up RPM increased to 3640-50.

I didn't load the unit today to see what the governer would do.
I'm still trying to get 5 hrs on it B4 I change oil etc, etc.

I'm remodeling my house, + work 2 part time jobs so I have limited amount of time to "play" w/jennifer....

Interesting though, what the colder plug effect was on start-up.

KenS