โMar-02-2005 06:20 AM
professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.
In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.
Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.
What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.
Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.
I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.
Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.
No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.
Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.
Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.
We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.
Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.
Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.
This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......
Randy
For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at โcloningโ reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a โrunningโ display model.
I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:
Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)
The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. โSupposedlyโ Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.
The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for โabove average qualityโ Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.
The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.
ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an โavailability listingโ.
The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings โ most likely universally available.
The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is โreasonablyโ quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a โlook alikeโ eng...
โAug-01-2007 12:26 PM
โAug-01-2007 11:53 AM
MrWizard wrote:
.....when mounted in the genny head there is hot air blowing on the potted/encased side of the AVR.....
โAug-01-2007 11:14 AM
TKMJ wrote:
In my own haste to get the genset up and running (a week after I got it) I started that puppy up (yes I added the oil first) and started using the genset. I did not plug my multi tester into the genset to check it. Shame on me bigtime. I ran my saber saw with no problem to cut out some 1/4 plywood figures. After I was finished with the saw I plugged my motorhome in to get some light going inside to get a little work done. It ran fine. I know not to use the A/C and other devices because of the design of the genset. 15amps max per receptacle. The A/C sucks 12.5amps. I did not want to over tax the genset. The problem occurred when my wife stepped into the motorhome with bare feet. She grabbed the pull up handle at the step and got zapped bigtime. 120 volts from her left hand down to her feet. It knocked her 10 feet as she fell on the driveway. Her hand had minor burns on it from the shock. She also has a minor burn on her right foot bottom. She was locked up on the handle for only a few seconds. I jumped out to help her and also got hit upon my exit. After shutting the genset down I disconnected the genset and plugged my meter into the 120 volt receptacle. Here are my results. hot to neutral 120V. hot to ground zero volts. neutral to ground 120volts. The receptacles were wired backwards. I then plugged the genset back into the coach and tested the frame to an earth ground 120 volts was the reading. I then disconnected the genset and plugged the coach into the house and retested it. Zero volts from the frame to earth ground. The problem is with the genset and not the coach.
โAug-01-2007 10:29 AM
Mr Wizard:
You always give great ideas for modifications mostly (simple) ways to correct problems we experience with gensets. I'm quite sure the mfg folks will make some changes that have come from your focus. Others have expressed a desire to create a new thread. Could we start maybe with "Chinese genset modifications" We can express our views on the best and worst but hoping many will continue to share good info' and new ideas to improve the use of Chinese gensets. The idea to move the AVR is the best one (to me) so far. You constantly lecture us about heat. It will kill a genset.
Floyd
โAug-01-2007 10:22 AM
everymilesamemory wrote:
I've been trying to read through here to see what anyone says about the noise level of the Champion?
Is it quite like a Honda or Yamaha, or more comparable to a Contractor Generator??
Pat
โAug-01-2007 06:52 AM
everymilesamemory wrote:
I've been trying to read through here to see what anyone says about the noise level of the Champion?
Is it quite like a Honda or Yamaha, or more comparable to a Contractor Generator??
Pat
โAug-01-2007 05:11 AM
MrWizard wrote:
following with interest the comments on AVR failure, and in the interest of DIY testing, i have moved the AVR on my champion genset to out side from the genny head and mounted on the upper frame rail
very easy to do, i only had to extend (2) wires for the feild, the other wiring was long enough to reach with out extending the wires
I routed the wires behind the rubber grommet so they are against the head casing not the sharper edge of the end cap.
a 'by the hand' temp test says it s staying cooler, when mounted in the genny head there is hot air blowing on the potted/encased side of the AVR and the genny gets pretty warm, the genny end is difinetly hotter than where it is now mounted
this NOT an official/sanctioned mod
โJul-31-2007 10:45 PM
everymilesamemory wrote:
I've been trying to read through here to see what anyone says about the noise level of the Champion?
Is it quite like a Honda or Yamaha, or more comparable to a Contractor Generator??
Pat
โJul-31-2007 10:29 PM
โJul-31-2007 09:39 PM
โJul-30-2007 08:29 PM
2003Summit wrote:TKMJ wrote:
............
My idea is also to remove the 240volt receptacle and replace it with a 120volt 30amp twistlok receptacle so the cord will not fall out when the coach is moving.
Just my opinion but twist locks don't really "lock" as well as you would hope. The cord also comes out the "end" of the plug and puts more stress on the connector (pulling it down). Consider just replacing it with an RV recepticle, most RV plugs have the cord comming out the bottom, so they put less stress on the socket and the recepticle springs clamp the plug prongs pretty hard. All in all an RV plug in MHO are less likely to come out. You could also screw a little strip of velcro just under the socket and velcro the cord down too for added security.
โJul-30-2007 08:16 PM
TKMJ wrote:
............
My idea is also to remove the 240volt receptacle and replace it with a 120volt 30amp twistlok receptacle so the cord will not fall out when the coach is moving.
โJul-30-2007 06:33 PM
โJul-30-2007 02:35 PM
โJul-30-2007 10:45 AM