3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

billmx43 wrote:
I will follow the professors basic design although I'm wondering if fiberglass batting inside of thinner sheet foam (say 1"?) might be better. I'm not an accoustical engineer but my gut tells me the fiberglass would absorb rather than reflect the sound. Perhaps this isn't an issue if you seal the unit as the professor did and just allow the reflected sound to be contained in the box?? I'm also still debating putting a hole in the truck bed to exit the exhaust underneath the bed. I already have holes for the hitch rails so what's one more, right? Thanks again for the welcome!

My prototype was built with 3/4" asphalt coated fiber board sheathing. The thinner material worked extremely well. Actually, the 2" foamboard may have been overkill, but it was available and structurally very strong and lightweight.

I suggest you give your idea a go. You might want to consider using fiberglass drop-in ceiling panels or, if you can find it, duct board.

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
Buying the C46540 was not my most desired model. I had read of Professor95 and MrWizard owning the Champion Electric Start 40008.
Champion (CPE) sales had been contacted asking, how to buy the Electric Start 40008 model. One week later I received a Email instructing me to contact Ultra Fab in Indiana. I did. They responded quickly with instructions

Please be aware that Champion does not sell their generators at retail. They are only sold to authorized dealers who then sell them to customers (us).

In the case of the 40008, it was designed for UltraFab. It is not sold through any other retailer. UltraFab dealers, which are most RV dealerships, then sell the units. It is ultimately up to the RV dealer to set the price. As expected, there is a considerable mark-up at many RV dealerships. If you do not like the floor price, make them a cash and carry offer. They just might accept. Another tatic is to require them to sell you a 40008 at cost or cost + 10% if buying a new or used RV from a dealer in the UltraFab network. Remind them your ownership can bring them additional customers.

The C46540 is also available with electric start. The model is C46540E. The CSK - Parts America group should be able to distribute this model. Perhaps you can request a quote on the C46540E and see what happens?

[Old___Slow]

LittleBill wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:

LittleBill wrote:
but I have saved myself I knew I had seen it before. do a search for

"RA10-ENG-BOX"

or go to

https://www.directwholesale.net/secure/

accessories tab and its the 4th product over

this will do what you need, period, and is the same model of rf starter used in those 80+ dollar starter kits,

also can run other stuff since its a 4 channel receiver/transmitter, you should only need 2 channels one latched and one momentary, and old and slow, you would just attach at the key, no need to remove it. everything would be wired in parallel

you can use the other channels to fire a door solenoid to manually move the choke, or fire up a fuel pump

I found the $55.00 unit. How amazing. Just can't believe it might be so KISS.........what unit do you suggest for the choke? Has anyone used this setup with a Electric Start genny?:@

part 742 on the same accessories page, now its going to either be full open or full close and might need some ingenuity to link it to the choke lever, but that's the fun right? unless someone has a link to a electronic choke that can be fitted.

I personally don't own an electric start genny, not sure how hard to connect the linkage up will be, but looking at my elim 3000 I could do it fairly easy

As a follow up to the above.


First, I ordered and received Part 742, the door lock mechanism, for the Electro-choke. In shop testing without attaching to the choke I found this item worked well by using a pull spring to bring the unit to a natural position and using only a momentary switch with the proper plus-minus correct polarity.

Second, I ordered and received the trunk lid solenoid from J.C. Whitney. This unit offers the most possibilities. Also, I used a pull spring to return to a neutral position. At the moment, I lack the strength (my poor health) and the proper tools to form a mounting for the retro-fit electro choke. IMHO the unit designed by Professor95 should be a winner. What is necessary is this (or one of like nature) the $9.98 solenoid from J. C Whitney.

Third, for a complete remote setup, that is yet to be developed. Several possibilities. One suggested by Little Bill the other comes from USCARB. Another possible solution, a separate off/on/start switch.

This completed unit with a Sound Reducing Box (possible 59db) and a remote control would be #1 in the Genset World. All from ideas brought to all of us by Professor95 beginging "3000W Chinese Genset Info"

I am sure, I speek for us beholding folks on this thread in saying..............Thank you Professor95

[billmx43]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
Bill - welcome - you are to be commended for reading
the entire thread! Awesome!JC

Well I have to admit I did skim through a lot of the discussion on grounding. Not that I don't think it's important but because I was really looking for info specifically on the Champion generators. I do intend to go back and really absorb all of that info.

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

Others will have to answer your questions - but (just a request)
how about breaking up you post/s into a few paragraphs.
Makes it easier for us old guys to read. Thanx!
JC

Will do...I tend to write how I talk...kinda long winded and rambly.;)

Bill

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Bill - welcome - you are to be commended for reading
the entire thread! Awesome!

Others will have to answer your questions - but (just a request)
how about breaking up you post/s into a few paragraphs.
Makes it easier for us old guys to read. Thanx!
JC

[Old___Slow]

Bill:

You have already used a great thought process in thinking of the exhaust. The CO is always a issue. Under the bed? Good question. I'm sure many will follow up on that subject. If you leave the genny stock, which I have done with the second genset I own, I just made a iron pipe extension for the exhaust. Using this idea, the CO issue remains. One more idea for the placement of the 40008. Recently I noticed one smart fellow made a extended riser with angle iron from the 5th wheel assy. with platform and placed the genny in that location. The CO issue would be less important.

Floyd

[billmx43]

Thanks Floyd,
I don't have the generator yet, I'll be ordering this week, so until I have it and can take some actual measurements the actual enclosure design will have to wait. I have some constraints on size due to A) the available distance from the front of the bed to the hitch rail, and B) the height of the bed rails since I want to continue to use my bed cover when not towing or using the generator. I'm sure I can work around these issues based on diminsions I've seen in the post but trying to come up with an ideal design before I get the generator would be jumping the gun. I will follow the professors basic design although I'm wondering if fiberglass batting inside of thinner sheet foam (say 1"?) might be better. I'm not an accoustical engineer but my gut tells me the fiberglass would absorb rather than reflect the sound. Perhaps this isn't an issue if you seal the unit as the professor did and just allow the reflected sound to be contained in the box?? I'm also still debating putting a hole in the truck bed to exit the exhaust underneath the bed. I already have holes for the hitch rails so what's one more, right? Thanks again for the welcome!

Bill

[Old___Slow]

Bill:

Welcome to RV.NET and this thread. We are all posting as a result of Professor95's first post "3000w Chinese Gensets Info' " He is our Champion and Professor.

I trust your choice of the Champion C40008 will prove to be a total success.

We all will be waiting for future posts, giving us the results of the ideas you mention. All are interesting.

Will you be constructing a enclosure similar to the one posted by Professor95? If not here is another possibility. In the pickup bed for good sound lowering and weather protection perhaps you will try this idea. Others may use this idea for open placement of the genny.

Make 6 panels of 2" Styrofoam covered with 1/4" hardboard (use liquid nail for foam) cut to these APX sizes for a stock 40008 genset. The top and bottom 28" x 23"...Front and back 27" x 18"...Ends 18" x 19" Make cut outs in proper location to install a shroud for air intake of the Engine and Genhead. Make a cut out of Apx 2" by 15" for air exit on the genhead side. I find no fan is necessary in the enclosure if the outside temp is be low 75 degrees. I believe you will find the bottom panel is vary important for sound suppression with what ever the construction may be. As for a fan to help with the radiant heat problem, several types and methods have had success.

Good luck.

[billmx43]

Wow...what a read! I have been trying to decide between the Honda and Yamaha 3000 watt inverter generators and stumbled upon this forum Friday night. Well I didn't get much of anything done this weekend, and I finished reading posts about midnight last night, but I figure it was as good as making over $1000 this weekend based on what I'm going to save thanks to all this info! A sincere thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I have learned so much this weekend! I've pretty much got my setup worked out in my head but there are two issues I'd like further input on. First my proposed setup....I'm pulling a (or will be when it arrives) 5th wheel toyhauler with my Ram diesel pickup. The trailer doesn't have an onboard genny compartment and I don't want to lose space by converting existing storage to a genny compartment. I'd also prefer not to have the generator on the back of the trailer so my plan is to install it (Champion 40008), with appropriate sound reducing measures, in the bed of the truck in front of the hitch. It will be a somewhat permanent mount and will give me the added benefit of electric power where ever I can drive my truck. I will be retrofitting the wireless remote starter/choke as previously discussed in this thread to allow starting from the trailer. When the topic of a remote fuel tank came up, and the problems finding a suitable fuel pump surfaced, I immediately thought of a two line "fuel loop" solution with a tiny (1 or 2 oz) reservoir to gravity feed the existing carburator. The excess pressure will simply return to the fuel tank. Two others have suggested this solution but their comments have been basically ignored. I'm confident I can make this work so it's the route I'm going to take...I'll let you know how it turns out. Here's the two issues I'm looking for more discussion and some help on....1: the overvoltage situation that some have experienced when the AVR fails. Now I understand this is a rare thing but isn't there a reasonably cost effective way to have a backup voltage regulator, or overvoltage shut down, put into the power system as insurance? With all of the electronics discussions that have occured in this thread I have to believe one of you guys has a down and dirty (Cheap!) solution to protect all of the onboard electronic equipment. Number 2: I understand that starting and stopping the generator under load is a no-no. I believe I also read that the generator stopping while under load is likely to damage the AVR which could then lead to the previously mentioned overvoltage issue. So, not having the fridge or water heater on ac and turning off other appliances prior to firing up the generator is easy enough but how do you protect against a generator shut down with the load still engaged? There have beed several mods discussed to automatically shut the generator down due to excess temperature and the generator itself has the low oil shut down not to mention the possibility of just running it out of gas. Any of these would cause the generator to shut down with a load on it. In his generator post today Brad (blkfe) mentioned the use of a magnetic contactor as protection, I believe, against this problem. I am aware of magnetic switches used on heavy machinery which disengage if the power goes out and must be manually engaged when the power returns...same concept? And if so what ratings would be necessary for this application? Again a huge thanks to all who have contributed here. I can't wait to get started on this project.

Bill

[tmfu]

I live in southeast Michigan, I purchased my Champion from Tractor Supply Co. It was $289 + tax. There used to be a Pep Boys over near Livonia, not sure if there still are some Pep Boy's around Michigan... as someone else mentioned... Murray's is of the same chain I think...

tr0910 wrote:
OK, we have oodles of info about the gensets, but now we need to know where to buy them.

Pep Boys are not local, but I can get there if I have to. Tractor Supply I will check. Checkers I've never heard of. Home Depot on their web site doesn't list Champion, only Coleman, Briggs, and Pramac. Harbor Freight sells generators under their Chicago Electric brandname. Any ideas which one this is? It appears that Cabela's might have them, but at $400 rather than the sub $300 prices with Pep Boys. (see pricing from Pep Boys Black Friday ad below)

PowerPRO 3500W Generator $50 MIR $229.98
PowerPRO 5500W Generator $50 MIR $329.98
PowerPRO 9000W Generator $100 MIR $449.98

Where are you guys buying your Champion Power Equipment generators?

Tim in MI

[tr0910]

Advance Auto Parts does not carry the unit when I checked today, but my local Tractor Supply has the Champion 46540 for $289.

So it's either ordering online from Parts America, or purchasing at Tractor Supply.

[kausin_komotion]

Today the rope for the recoil broke but I managed to get it started by wrapping a rope around the pulley after taking the recoil assembly off so I could winterize the TT.Can a new rope be wound onto the existing recoil(need direction here if possible)on the champion website it says order a new recoil assembly?Seems a bit expensive just for a broken rope.I tried wrapping a new rope around the recoil but it didn't start on the first pull and the rope did not retract back into the assembly after.

[Old___Slow]

Wgeorge11 wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:


Aha,

I must have gone about this whole thing wrong. If I get the story correct. I'm not sure. Is it possible the c46540 could have been purchased through my local Advanced Auto and I received FREE shipping? I know in Texas, tax would need to be added. I agree, buying a Champion is a WIN, WIN deal.

I'm just saying I order the gen online from Parts America. It was shipped free without sales tax. I was able to drop off the damaged unit at the local Advance Auto for credit and replacement which was shipped the same day.

PartsAmerica

That is quite a deal with the link to Partsamerica.com, I just checked and it's now 10% off or free shipping. Will a code still work? If so maybe someone will give it to us. That could be a REAL DEAL. Just the FREE Shipping deal would give me a Total Cost for Texas del. to my door of $299.99

[Wgeorge11]

Old & Slow wrote:


Aha,

I must have gone about this whole thing wrong. If I get the story correct. I'm not sure. Is it possible the c46540 could have been purchased through my local Advanced Auto and I received FREE shipping? I know in Texas, tax would need to be added. I agree, buying a Champion is a WIN, WIN deal.

I'm just saying I order the gen online from Parts America. It was shipped free without sales tax. I was able to drop off the damaged unit at the local Advance Auto for credit and replacement which was shipped the same day.

PartsAmerica

[Old___Slow]

Wgeorge11 wrote:

tr0910 wrote:
Aha,

Advance Auto Parts = Parts America in these parts. That is very local. Will try there too.

Tim

In my experience the local Advance Auto did not stock the Champion, but acted as agent for Parts America. This worked out well for me as I had to return a gen damaged in shipping, and was able to do so via the local store. I too had a 10% off coupon, shipping was free, no sales tax, and the price was right. Best of all, there was no question or hassle with the return. Parts America provided service equal to CPE which in both cases has been outstanding. You'll not go wrong with this winning combo of mfg/sales support, not to mention the tech support.

Aha,

I must have gone about this whole thing wrong. If I get the story correct. I'm not sure. Is it possible the c46540 could have been purchased through my local Advanced Auto and I received FREE shipping? I know in Texas, tax would need to be added. I agree, buying a Champion is a WIN, WIN deal.

I notice in today's Pepboys ad The 3500 PowerPro for $249.98 with discounts, and a UST Generator/Compressor combo @ 99.98. I may go look into that deal. I need a small genny and a air compressor also.