3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[BFRXLT]

Kajtek1 wrote:
Is this a thread about generators with over 500 replies, or am I drunk?

Maybe you're drunk 'cause that's 5000 not 500. 😄

[Kajtek1]

Is this a thread about generators with over 500 replies, or am I drunk?

[billmx43]

My Champion 40008 arrived today. Whoohoo!

[Rotton_Rob]

Everybody gone or just cold.

[kingman]

Thank's guy's.

[mitt]

kingman wrote:
Well upon running my new champion csa40015 to test it out i have noticed the voltage to be a little high at 128 volts.Freq is at about 62 unloaded and drops to around 60 with a 2000 watt load.( 1500 watt heater and 500 watt worklight).When loaded with the 2000 watt load voltage still stay's around 127.4 with my digital voltmeter( the intelligauge say's 128.2).Should i adjust the avr or is this voltage within a safe level?I did slow down the engine to see if it affectd voltage but it didn't appear to affect it.Even with the freq at or around 60 with no load voltage stayed around 128.Any and all input welcome. Thank's Shane

Mine was a little high as well, around 124V out of the box.

I figure I will live with that, but 130V I would be adjusting.

Depending on how you connect your loads to the generator, your voltage will drop a bit too (measure voltage at the load, not at the generator to see what I mean). If you have a 50' extension cord, there will be a couple volts dropped through the cord if you are pulling say 10 amps.

mitt

[professor95]

kingman wrote:
Well upon running my new champion csa40015 to test it out i have noticed the voltage to be a little high at 128 volts.Freq is at about 62 unloaded and drops to around 60 with a 2000 watt load.( 1500 watt heater and 500 watt worklight).When loaded with the 2000 watt load voltage still stay's around 127.4 with my digital voltmeter( the intelligauge say's 128.2).Should i adjust the avr or is this voltage within a safe level?I did slow down the engine to see if it affectd voltage but it didn't appear to affect it.Even with the freq at or around 60 with no load voltage stayed around 128.Any and all input welcome. Thank's Shane

Monitoring grid voltage over the years at numerous locations (homes, work, etc.)I have noted voltages running as high as 134 with 129 typical at off peak hours. Other than incandescent light bulbs having a little less of a life expectancy, I doubt that 128 VAC will cause any damage.

But, it is an easy five minute process to remove the end cap from the gen head, loosen the AVR screws and flip it around so you can adjust the trim pot on the back. You might sleep better with it at 120 VAC.

[professor95]

jarheadfor4 wrote:
By the way, Bloom's Taxonomy is not a "knowledge gathering process."

After 39 years in education, both K-12 and Higher Ed., one thing I have learned for sure......... Most of the time educators do not agree.:W

Thanks for the perspective.

[jarheadfor4]

I cannot believe how much this post has created. I just have to say that seeing BLOOM'S TAXONOMY was not something I thought I would see.

By the way, Bloom's Taxonomy is not a "knowledge gathering process." More accurately, one would describe Bloom's Taxonomy as a way to classify instructional activities or questions as they progress in difficulty. As one move through the heirarchy as described by Benjamin Bloom, the questions or activities change in complexity. Therefore, comparing this thread and the methods used to learn about the Chinese generators to Bloom's is not an accurate way to describe what has been accomplished through this forum. Moreover, one should look at this thread as an informational source with a large number of test subjects with a significant number of uncontrolled variables. Can one collect the data and form an opinion? Of course!

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
Today's switching power supplies are darn near bullet proof. They will take input voltages as low as 90 VAC or as high as 250 VAC and still provide a stable, regulated output. Trash, noise, etc. on the signal is pretty much disregarded by the PS.

Part of the reason, as someone else mentioned, is the global economy. Manufacturers don't like to make multiple versions of a product if they don't have to. Japan has 100v requirements, and the European requirement is 230v. Europe is 50Hz, the US and half of Japan are 60Hz.

The European Union has a Low Voltage Directive, which dictates that anything imported into Europe must meet certain safety and EMC (electromagnetic compatibility) standards. My job happens to be testing products to the European EMC directives. Electronic devices must undergo both emissions and immunity tests. Basically, the product must have a low probability of interfering with other devices (emissions) and must also be able to withstand certain amounts of interference as well (immunity).

Some of the immunity tests that European standards require include surge, electrical fast transients, conducted and radiated immunity, voltage dips and interruptions, and electrostatic discharge. Depending on the type of product, there may be more tests than mentioned, and the testing may be more severe for certain types of products.

A lot (not all) of the products made and sold in the US are not required to undergo immunity tests. However, if you look on a product and find the CE marking, it has been tested to the European requirements which included the immunity test suite. These requirements are part of the reason that today's products may be more robust than the ones made 20 years ago.

Bob R.

[kingman]

Well upon running my new champion csa40015 to test it out i have noticed the voltage to be a little high at 128 volts.Freq is at about 62 unloaded and drops to around 60 with a 2000 watt load.( 1500 watt heater and 500 watt worklight).When loaded with the 2000 watt load voltage still stay's around 127.4 with my digital voltmeter( the intelligauge say's 128.2).Should i adjust the avr or is this voltage within a safe level?I did slow down the engine to see if it affectd voltage but it didn't appear to affect it.Even with the freq at or around 60 with no load voltage stayed around 128.Any and all input welcome. Thank's Shane

[professor95]

O&S wrote:
Professor95:

All of my questions have been overlooked. It may be time for me to get the message. Hope I am not to old to learn when to hold em' and when to play em' Some really informed folks contribute to this thread and I have been privileged to access so much knowledge.

Floyd
O&S

Floyd,

Your message really confuses me. I'm not sure what questions have been overlooked as many, many have been asked and many more answered.

Please do this for us. Re-ask your questions or provide a link back to them. I am sure someone will respond should I not be able to.

There is no "message"........ No one is intentionally ignoring your questions, or any body else's for that matter. It could be there is no definitive answer to some of the questions.

All of us need to keep in mind the old saying, "You can't make a silk purse out of a cow's ear."

I don't necessarily mean to imply the Chinese generators are cow's ears, but they certainly are not silk purses. They were designed to be effective, inexpensive, power sources for power outages and contractors. The fact that they became RV related is because of this forum - I doubt that Champion would have built an RV model if we had not pushed the need for the 30A outlet on these pages. These little gennys were never intended to be "hospital grade" power equipment. We have pushed them to the outer limits with our designs and imaginations. We have revealed faults that might otherwise go unnoticed. Most all of this has been shared as part of a knowledge gathering process defined in Bloom's Taxonomy.

Essentially, AVR's are going to fail, genheads will burn out, engines will leak oil, voltage may be irregular and off frequency and carburetors will gum up. It is the nature of these little beasties and those who use them and understand willingly accept the risks. If one is not willing to accept that risk, there are more expensive and technologically advanced gensets out there that can reduce those risks.

[Old___Slow]

Professor95:

All of my questions have been overlooked. It may be time for me to get the message. Hope I am not to old to learn when to hold em' and when to play em' Some really informed folks contribute to this thread and I have been privileged to access so much knowledge.

Floyd
O&S

[Wayne_Dohnal]

professor95 wrote:

I'll trade you one of mine for your Honda 2000i - I'll even pay the shipping.

Only if you throw in a bridge to sweeten the deal!

[professor95]

Wayne Dohnal wrote:
I wish I could capture the pictures using a Chinese generator, but I just don't have one.

I'll trade you one of mine for your Honda 2000i - I'll even pay the shipping.