3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[cachingcampers]

Has anyone mad an adaptor for the 20A twist lock 4 lug to a 30Amp RV plug? What is required parts wise, does any one have the pin out schematic for that? or does anyone know of an inexpensive source to buy one pre made? I need the full 20A to start my AC unit.

Thanks!!

[HedoTravelers]

I will also be using the genny for power outages too, so I want something mounted on the genny itself if possible.
It is not real expensive, maybe one for the trailer too.

[tvman44]

HedoTravelers wrote:
I want to have a simple surge protector in place on the new genny in time for the upcoming camping season.
I am looking for input on using this surge protector inline. Comments welcome.

LINK HERE

I would install it so it protecte the trailer all the time when running the ginny and when on shore power.

[HedoTravelers]

Slick_Sammy wrote:
Just an FYI post here: When I ordered the wheel kit for my Champion 46540 from PartsAmerica, i was not sure if it would fit. It is part # 40066, at $29, which is not listed on Champion's site. I called them and confirmed that it DOES fit this model generator, and i installed that just fine last week. So now you know 🙂

Does it look like this kit?

[HedoTravelers]

I want to have a simple surge protector in place on the new genny in time for the upcoming camping season.
I am looking for input on using this surge protector inline. Comments welcome.

LINK HERE

[professor95]

Slick_Sammy wrote:
Just an FYI post here: When I ordered the wheel kit for my Champion 46540 from PartsAmerica, i was not sure if it would fit. It is part # 40066, at $29, which is not listed on Champion's site. I called them and confirmed that it DOES fit this model generator, and i installed that just fine last week. So now you know

I spoke with tech at CPE last week about their web page no longer showing parts and accessories as it once did. I believe I must have caught him by surprise because he did not know they were gone! I was told that they have hired a new web designer and the entire site would be revamped soon. I asked for a more comprehensive listing of commonly relpaced parts along with costs. I was told he would see what could be done.....

The wheel kit is pretty universal. I put a CPE wheel kit on my ELM3000. I did have to drill two new holes to make the axle fit. I don't know how CPE feels about selling their parts for other makes and models, but as far as the frame, engine, gas tank, and non-genhead related parts I know of nothing that will not interchange.

[professor95]

Oldfordman wrote:
Have you installed the "Generation III" rockers yet? Is there any noticable difference in noise. I have noticed a lot of "clatter" from the original style rockers on mine. The original rockers are essentialy the same as used in all small-block GM engines. Far noisier than the "rocker shaft" design used in the old small block MOPAR's and more modern Mitsubishi/Chrysler engines. Would be interesting if these new rockers were somewhat quieter. Might help reduce some of the total engine noise.

Your thoughts on this??

Now, what in the world is an Old FORD man doing talking trash about a small-block GM and Mopar? Oh, I almost forgot, Ford still puts their valves in the block and doesn't have rockers :).

Guess Champion has a new meaning for "off your rocker"?

OK, enough of my corny jokes. I actually had the same thoughts you did about the 1st. generation set-up being similar to GM's small blocks. I have installed a set of 2nd. generation rockers on my ELM3000. My 40008 came with them. I did not notice any difference in sound on the ELM3000. I will put the 3rd gen rockers on my C46540 when my son gets around to bring it back home and see if there is a difference in noise.

[Slick_Sammy]

Just an FYI post here: When I ordered the wheel kit for my Champion 46540 from PartsAmerica, i was not sure if it would fit. It is part # 40066, at $29, which is not listed on Champion's site. I called them and confirmed that it DOES fit this model generator, and i installed that just fine last week. So now you know 🙂

[tvman44]

HedoTravelers wrote:
Will this meter work in the gensets that produce 240v also?

Sure just hook it across the 120 volt outlet!! 🙂

[Oldfordman]

professor95 wrote:

Slick_Sammy wrote:
I just got the popular Champion 46540 (fired up on first pull) and noticed the manual says you're supposed to set or at least check valve lash at 10 hrs ! 10 hrs? really? who does this? surprised no one has said anything about this or at least I haven't had luck in finding any info about valve lash adjustment.

so does anyone have the specs on this or care to do a step by step walk thru for all of us? i have the basic concept just just never done it before. anyone know what a small engine repair shop might charge? thanks!!

I am sure you are aware that all of these Chinese built 6.5 HP 200 cc engines are basically a copy of the original Honda GX200?

Honda's engines used a stamped rocker assembly shown here installed on an engine.



I am told (I have no first hand experience on this topic) that this original design had problems with the rocker rotating either right or left and popping off of the valve collars IF valve adjustment was not regularly maintained. (You will also note that these rockers mount on studs and do not have a rocker arm support shaft for stability.) Thus, CPE issued a TSB and notation to their manuals to adjust valve lash after the first 10 hours of use.

Most owners did not do this......

Thus, CPE elected to redesign their rocker assembly and developed a forged unit as shown in the photos below under 2nd generation upgrade.

Possibly for reasons of manufacturing costs, the rockers were again recently redesigned from stamped steel (3rd generation in photos). Only this time they were much beefier and durable than the original stamped design. You will note on both designs the use of a grade 8 rocker arm shaft and studs that were absent on the original design.







As I understand it, Honda continues to use the original design as do other builders of Honda clones. I am told CPE is the only company that has decided to use a redesigned rocker.

Your engine most likely has the 2nd generation redesigned forged rocker assembly. Pop the cap off and compare it to the photo to be sure.

If it is the forged design, you will still need to maintain proper valve lash, but the time frame for doing so is not as critical as the original stamped rockers as the risk of breaking the collars is minimized.

If you should have the original stamped rockers, by all means become anal about maintaining proper valve lash. Or, you can call CPE Tech Support and order either one of the updated rocker assemblies and studs. I do not know the cost.

Other brands of Chinese GX200 clones should make note of the recommended valve adjustment interval to assure continued reliability.

Hope this helps....

Have you installed the "Generation III" rockers yet? Is there any noticable difference in noise. I have noticed a lot of "clatter" from the original style rockers on mine. The original rockers are essentialy the same as used in all small-block GM engines. Far noisier than the "rocker shaft" design used in the old small block MOPAR's and more modern Mitsubishi/Chrysler engines. Would be interesting if these new rockers were somewhat quieter. Might help reduce some of the total engine noise.

Your thoughts on this??

[professor95]

HedoTravelers wrote:
Will this meter work in the gensets that produce 240v also?

Yes. The running time mode is apparently a product of frequency, not voltage.

[HedoTravelers]

Will this meter work in the gensets that produce 240v also?

[professor95]

Last night I finally got around to fiddlin' with the tri-digital meter that Champion is now offering on some of it's models. I have also been told that the meter will soon be available in kit form for retrofit on older models. I have no details on pricing.

I hooked the one I had received up to domestic power. The opening in my genset for the older electro-mechanical running time meter was larger than the new tri-digital, so I elected not to try and mount it on the genny. I have a small control pannel that will go inside the camper to start the genny and transfer power between the inverter and the genny. I have room to mount the meter on the inside pannel - I think it will be a neat accessory.

The meter only needs a connection to the 120 volt power source. There are two wires that connect to a push button. Each time you push the button, the meter cycles to a different function. This meter will obviously work on any brand of generator producing 120 volts. It is a really handy tool for adjusting the engine speed for the desired frequency.


VOLTAGE MODE


FREQUENCY MODE


RUNNING HOURS MODE


BOTTOM VIEW

[professor95]

LittleBill wrote:
which valve is exhaust, which is intake? i would assume looking at it from prof picture the left is the exhaust?

Yep, you got it!

[LittleBill]

which valve is exhaust, which is intake? i would assume looking at it from prof picture the left is the exhaust?