3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[tvman44]

Old & Slow wrote:
My search of Cabelas.com brought up the price of $349 All of the low sales prices posted by various folks will give a True Value. The $112.50 deal one poster seized was unbelievable. Now $91.63, WOW.....I posted recently IMO these prices indicated a fire sale, however, someone else posted the C46540 was still a production model. So what do I know. Anyway, last year I bought through partsamerica.com for $270 and to this day I believe that was a very low price for what I got. The C46540 is now in my shop in a sound lowering enclosure coming in at 60 dBA. Always starts on first or second pull. A new model is listed in TL under the brand name of "Ultra-Gen Powerhouse Generators" with a price of $459, so maybe it's time to get on board the last train out with a low ticket price. IMHO that's about the price differential we will soon see on many other items. Chinese or not.

Without searching the archives did you ever post your sound enclosure, that is how made and pictures?? 🙂

[Old___Slow]

My search of Cabelas.com brought up the price of $349 All of the low sales prices posted by various folks will give a True Value. The $112.50 deal one poster seized was unbelievable. Now $91.63, WOW.....I posted recently IMO these prices indicated a fire sale, however, someone else posted the C46540 was still a production model. So what do I know. Anyway, last year I bought through partsamerica.com for $270 and to this day I believe that was a very low price for what I got. The C46540 is now in my shop in a sound lowering enclosure coming in at 60 dBA. Always starts on first or second pull. A new model is listed in TL under the brand name of "Ultra-Gen Powerhouse Generators" with a price of $459, so maybe it's time to get on board the last train out with a low ticket price. IMHO that's about the price differential we will soon see on many other items. Chinese or not.

[tvman44]

limerick001 wrote:

tvman44 wrote:
Just a heads up to anyone considering a 3000W Chinese Gensets specifically the champion C46540. Cabela's will have them onb sale next Saturday 03/08/2008 For $279.00. Can't beat that. 🙂 🙂

Wanna bet??? see my post on page 560/561 :):):):)

At the time you could not, since then yes.

[limerick001]

tvman44 wrote:
Just a heads up to anyone considering a 3000W Chinese Gensets specifically the champion C46540. Cabela's will have them onb sale next Saturday 03/08/2008 For $279.00. Can't beat that. 🙂 🙂

Wanna bet??? see my post on page 560/561 :):):):)

[limerick001]

professor95 wrote:
CPE technical services was kind enough to mail me their new tridigital meter for testing and evaluation. It came unannounced in a box yesterday, without a schematic. I need to get in touch with the head tech service honcho there and find out how the two unidentified wires attach. Once complete, I'll share the details. The meter appears to be universal enough to fit any make or model 3,000 watt 120 volt genny, but it does NOT fit the old analog meter hole. Tri-digital is suppose to give voltage, running time to 999 hours, frequency and rpm (Humm.... that's quad digital).

Could you please e-mail me at rlimrich@cox.net, I have one of those
meters, would like to discuss briefly about larger gensets such
as the one you have at home, cvt'd to propane...

Thanks, Ron

[limerick001]

Ever fear being without a back up source of power, in an emergency OR
having convenience for camping???



Generator for $299.00 plus tax, not a bad deal in itself...

http://www.partsamerica.com/productdetail.aspx?MfrCode=CPE&MfrPartNumber=C46540&CategoryCode=3483C&SID=sduidp0t769413



A 15% discount coupon, with a little chicanery and a very small purchase (returnable later) , a 25% discount !
(read the posts)

http://www.fatwallet.com/t/18/695710

$150.00 Rebate
http://cskautoinc.rebatestatus.com/displaypdf.aspx?GFmCPCipleQGLQ6KLP3ff/qlBF4b/ps0fK0iLbBpjg8=



Good Grief! Can you say a NET cost of $91.63 ??? (after purchase, san diego tax of 7.75 percent, and
rebate)

If I didn't have my 7000 watt electric start beast, I'd bag a spare for emergencies!

Act fast, the deal runs out on March 29...

Ron

[Old___Slow]

Hemiallen,

Congrats, on bleu. We are improving if I do say so. Later I want to know more about the remote control. That's one thing I need for my 3000w genny.

[Old___Slow]

Prof95

This is good news all the way around and the hint to the wise was also good. We do need to be more politically correct with our Host. Your being a Good Will Ambassador for Champion is important. Champion parts in a Elim. Now, I need a favor. My Champion C46540 needs a Electric Start Kit. That would bring it up to the same class as my Electric Start, the other Chinese 3000w genset I own. The parts for a 40008 will do fine, I do believe.

[professor95]

Hemiallen wrote:
For a former school teacher 🙂 your excellent post sounded more like a political reply to some indescression... sorry, I found it compelling to draw that conclusion . Thumbs up....

My bride, who is from Arkansas, was an aquaitance of the Clintons some time back. Perhaps the influence is more profound than I thought?

Glad to hear you have a new genny. I, too, enjoy the grandkids - especially when I can send them home when they misbehave.

On the subject of Chinese gennys, I sent Little Bill a set of spare CPE forged rockers to repair his JD built ELM3000. He just PMed me to say they worked out OK. Many more parts should be interchangable between brands due to the common nature of the majority of components. Nice to know in a world where it is often hard to get OEM parts from the source that something else will work.

[Hemiallen]

Wow Professor

For a former school teacher 🙂 your excellent post sounded more like a political reply to some indescression... sorry, I found it compelling to draw that conclusion . Thumbs up....

I unfortunately was persuaded to purchase a generator with wisper sounds under partial load, along with a remote control, so I will be passing on the yellow generator deal currently available. My order was for a blue unit ( this morning ) matching the brand for my xt-350 Dual Sport motorcycle.....

And excellent insight into who is the boss is here. Even w/o moderation of threads we all need to step back sometimes and analyze our words/ attitude ( just a general statement- nothing to do with THIS thread) as many keyboard posters forget we are all in this for a common goal, enjoy life, meet friends and see this wonderful country.

I have 6 years before we go fulltime/ part time, and enjoy 1 or 2 camping weekends from spring to fall per month, using our new 5th wheel, sharing space with my 2 kids, their spouses and grandbaby. Life, is GOOD.

Sorry for the diatribe....

Allen

[professor95]

A couple of days ago, I made a posting concerning the Chinese made gennys and the closing of Coleman Powermate. The posting was removed by our moderator, along with some others.

I have received numerous e-mails as a result, expressing dismay on the editing.

Please allow me to say this: The forum does not belong to us. The servers, software and specific connections are owned by our host. Our host has a set of rules concerning postings we must follow. Each forum or thread has a moderator to make sure postings are kept on topic and that rules of respect and courtesy are followed. This is necessary to maintain the focus of the individual threads and make them a pleasant place for visitors to congregate. As a result, our host hopes we will recognize various advertisers and pay them a visit. Overall, the advertising on the forums is very limited and non intrusive - which is more than I can say for other forums I have visited. I also see the forum rules as being very fair and allowing much more posting freedom than many others allow.

I feel MELM has done a tremendous job of moderating. His delete key finger is rarely used. But, when he feels it necessary, he does not hesitate to remove possibly objectionable postings.

I am reminding myself that I am a guest here and should be more sensitive to the wishes of our host. We must respect those decisions, including the editing of our postings. If we cannot, we need to find another place to share our views.

[professor95]

O&S wrote:
Apx. how many volts would one of our Champion gensets output with a AVR failure?

You could expect something between 150 and 160 VAC or zero, depending on what failed.

Again, the surge supressor will not hurt if you want one. In fact, it may actually clip some surges or spikes - if they should occur. But once more, it will not protect against an over voltage condition.

I have built a small, inexpensive circuit that will shut down the genny should over voltage occur. I have been testing it and will, eventually, post details on how to build it. But, right now, I am getting ready to head out for our first outing of the year and we are madly packing the camper. I need to find or make time to do the pics and write up. It is sort of like I tell my bride - I'll get a round tuit.

[Old___Slow]

Prof95/MrWizard,

Apx. how many volts would one of our Champion gensets output with a AVR failure? The reason I ask is this. My Surge protector (UL 1449) power strips are rated from 300v to 400v Is there any way a 3000w 120v/240v Chinese genset could produce a spike of up to 300v/400v? My thought is I need the surge protection in my MH for AC power from the grid.

[Old___Slow]

Concerning the need for surge suppression. I made a visit to the website howthingswork.com/surge suppressors. Vary interesting reading. I found they say a SURGE is three nanoseconds, a SPIKE is one or two nanoseconds. Wow, pretty close. Something else was interesting. A constant surge or spike can weaken a device over time. Like from a A/C compressor. From a novice point of view, the constant cycling of our A/C's in our RV's will over time weaken a AVR in the genset or possibly cause a failure, if from no other reason. Some might have a mfg fault. Anyway, I am in the market for a good quality UL 1449 approved power strip for the MH. Cost apx $30....some folks will feel the need for a more advanced device. Cost, $200 into the thousands. That will be out of range of my demands.

[BFRXLT]

Old & Slow wrote:
BFRXLT,

The last post I headed with your handle was kinda like being on a road to no place. But folks are trying to be nice the best we can. So no one zoomed in on Old and Slow. Thanks men. My question was really concerning your find on Surge suppression for a genset even though most of us have a Chinese genny and not the Powermate. Maybe you can get the goose (me) out of the fog.

I use a power backup which has a battery designed to run the load during short outages and can also do many other things. It constantly monitors AC input and adjusts its output to predefined parameters. It will correct any out of range issues and output clean, pure steady voltage to whatever is plugged into it. The one I have was around $200.00 but it's better than buying another of the devices it is protecting. It is also very unlikely that it will be damaged by incoming AC irregularities. You can get one at any electronics store. Look for one that protects against over/under voltage, surges, and that corrects sine waves and cycles.