3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

the mean fish wrote:
Guys, I've literally been reading this thread for 3 weeks now looking for info on rewiring my Champion generator to give me full power at the RV outlet and searching for things like rewire, coil, parallel, etc come up with nothing... I just need a page number if anyone knows where it is. Thanks.

Three weeks? Sounds like you are a glutton for punishment :B. You should have spoken up earlier.

Unless you have an older model 46535, there is no rewiring to be done. The newer model 46540 with the 30 amp TT outlet will provide full available amperage when in the 120 VAC mode.

If you should have a 46535, let me know via private e-mail (PM function) and I will send you the rewire info.

[Old___Slow]

Curt,

Good tip. My C46540 will soon need a new rope. Part of the wearing was due to the fact I threaded the pull rope through a drilled hole the front panel for access while the genny was in a enclosure. Also added a wire to the choke.


AC ripple,

On Brad's picture # 3 is the funny fuzzy lines what someone back on another post described as what the output from the 12v/10a on the Champ C46540 would be? The output looks to be coming from the field winding 120/240v AC. Fascinating, DC with AC ripple. The novice. O & S

Will it slowly kill my 12v/80w Fan?

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
Looking at Brads photos..... not sure how you were coupled. Doesn't look like the scope was set to DC.

If I had to bet money, I would say it was set to DC coupling. There is no way he would have had a trace with a flat DC level (like picture #2) otherwise.

This week, I've been testing a UPS system that was rated for over 500kw. (Yes, no typo, five hundred kilowatts!). The client rented a generator so we would have the source power required to test it. We also had a load that would dissipate that much power! On battery backup at that load, it would only last about 3 minutes.

Anyway, the reason I mention it is that the generator was very quiet considering. Very well baffled, exhaust going straight up. Ran it all week (not at full power the whole time) on about 1/2 tank. But it did hold about 3500 lbs of fuel. At 16,000 lbs empty, its just a little too heavy to pull behind my class C camper. 😞

[the_mean_fish]

Guys, I've literally been reading this thread for 3 weeks now looking for info on rewiring my Champion generator to give me full power at the RV outlet and searching for things like rewire, coil, parallel, etc come up with nothing... I just need a page number if anyone knows where it is. Thanks.

[billmx43]

Here are a few pictures. Two with the flap down and one with it up. I didn't bother unloading the truck for the pictures (it's raining) so please excuse the mess. The plywood is attached to the underside of my bed cover rails. In version 2 there will be cross bracing to prevent the sagging in the middle as well as a quick mount vent hood for putting over the fan opening (if I keep the fan in the current location). The white material on top of the plywood is coroplast (corogated plastic). It will probably be replace in the final version with some loght weight aluminum diamond plate. The mat is sandwiched between the plywood and coroplast. The loose wiring you can see runs from the battery to a switch under the bed rail then to the fan. The genny itself is currently being held in place by a ratchet strap on each side pulling it down and back. There is a piece of fiberglass ceiling tile behind the genny for both sound absorbtion and to prevent metal to metal contact between the genny and the front wall of the truck bed and the genny itself is sitting on a piece of industrial floor mat.

[pritch272]

billmx43, do you have any pictures of what you just described? I'm having a hard time visualizing your setup.

[billmx43]

professor95 wrote:

On both my old setup and the current one I draw fan power from a larger battery, which is connected to a charger while the genny is running. This time I left the OEM starter battery in place, but all it does is crank the engine.

Professor, I had considered doing this but logic (my logic that is) told me that converting ac to dc to chage a battery to run a dc fan had to be less efficient than just running an ac fan. Am I wrong or is it just too little difference to be concerned with?

professor95 wrote:

Wal-Mart box fans do not have the ability to work in high static pressures like the Procomp. A test to determine if a fan will work under high static pressure is to cover 1/2 of the intake with cardboard and observe what happens. If the air flow changes considerably or the fan blade cavitates it is only good for "open air" use.

I whole heartedly agree that the box fans don't work in a static pressure situation. My arrangement is more of a tunnel than a box. The genny sits against the front wall of the pickup bed. It is covered by a piece of plywood that spans the bed from side to side and extends back approximately 2 feet. The plywood is covered by a rubber mat which extends past the back edge of the plywood by about 18". This extra material hangs vertically and creates the back "wall" of the enclosure. The width of the mat is about 1 foot less than the width of the truck bed so there is an opening on either end which faces to the rear of the truck bed. Currently the Procomp fan is mounted in the center of the plywood cover blowing down and the air exits on both sides between the end of the mat and the truck bed. This works well other than the battery drain issue. If I go to the box fan my plan was to duct air from elsewhere in the bed to both ends of the genny as has been suggested previously by you and others. The fan would go on one end of the "tunnel" and blow air across the width of the bed, around the genny. I've found I get decent sound reduction with this enclosure and I'm sure I can improve it with the addition of some sound absorbing surfaces inside the tunnel. An added benefit of the mat for a rear wall is that in higher ambient temperatures I can lift the mat up so that it is extending horizontally and resting on the 5er pinbox to allow more air flow. Even in this configuration the sound from the Champion is not objectionable.

[blkfe]

professor95 wrote:
Brad,

Sorry to cause concern. From this end it just looked like you may have had the scope switch set to AC rather than DC. No big deal one way or the other. I suspect the crummy stuff is not from the FWB rectifier output, but from AC coupling that is making the signal look worse than it really is.

Ya, well, you know how my brain hick-ups at times....
Brad

[professor95]

Brad,

Sorry to cause concern. From this end it just looked like you may have had the scope switch set to AC rather than DC. No big deal one way or the other. I suspect the crummy stuff is not from the FWB rectifier output, but from AC coupling that is making the signal look worse than it really is.

[professor95]

Floyd,

I "think" you are looking at 3 to 4 amps out of the charge coil on the DuroPower and Champ 40008. I have never measured it, but based on the Ah rating of the battery, that would be tops. No, not enough to sustain your fan.

On both my old setup and the current one I draw fan power from a larger battery, which is connected to a charger while the genny is running. This time I left the OEM starter battery in place, but all it does is crank the engine.

Wal-Mart box fans do not have the ability to work in high static pressures like the Procomp. A test to determine if a fan will work under high static pressure is to cover 1/2 of the intake with cardboard and observe what happens. If the air flow changes considerably or the fan blade cavitates it is only good for "open air" use.

Keep in mind the heat produced by the genny and engine at a minimum is equivalent to at least a 12,000 BTU electric heater - more when under a heavy load. For comparison, a 1,500 watt space heater is 5,200 BTU. So the heat you want to remove is more than two of those heaters.

[billmx43]

Old & Slow wrote:

PS; At present the Procomp 12v fan is a wonder. WOW the air she moves.
Do you think the box fan will do the same?

I agree the Procomp moves a lot of air. Do I think the box fan will do the same? Well, based on my highly technical "hand in front of the fan" test I'd say not even close! The Procomp is a better design for moving air because it has the housing close to the blade tips...almost a ducted fan design. The box fan leaks back a lot of air in the corners. But based on what others are saying I believe if you duct outside air to both ends of the genny you're 90% there as far as cooling need. Even a small amount of airflow over the generator externals should transfer out more heat than would occur out in the open on a breezeless day I would think. Keep in mind my need, and therefore my setup, is different than most. I'm not looking for whisper quiet so I won't piss off those trying to commune with nature at a state park. 90% of the time we are using our rig at motocross tracks, which are far from quiet! However, even in that environment I'd like to tone it down a bit. I've been pitted next to folks who have the $100K plus motorhome pulling the big enclosed trailer and using a Coleman jobsite genny which they, of course, run all day so they can sit in the MH in air conditioned comfort. They also typically seem to be the people who use an extension cord to get the genny as far away from their MH as possible. Of course this just means they put it closer to you...and happen to point the exhaust in your direction!:R
With my past generators I've tried to use a little discretion. I typically set them up under the open tailgate of our truck with the exhaust facing under the truck to at least knock a little off the sound. My Champion-in-the-bed set up is much better and, in the environment I use it in, is barely noticeable when it's running. This season's setup was quick and dirty just to see how it worked out. In the spring I'm planning an upgrade based on what I've learned. Right after Christmas we're heading down south for 2 weeks of riding. I'll be sure and get some pictures during that time.

[Old___Slow]

Bill,

I think your on to something. I have one enclosure in the shop with 3 1/2" walls that may fit a box fan. I'll see. Anxious for you to give use more details of your project. Pictures? Floyd

PS; At present the Procomp 12v fan is a wonder. WOW the air she moves.
Do you think the box fan will do the same?

[billmx43]

Old & Slow wrote:

How many amp output do you have on the 12v charger on the 40008? My understanding is that my old Electric Start DuroPower DP3500EC is some what the same. The DuroPower had both the 12v/10a output and a trickle charger (like the 40008)for the genny battery. Brad had stated this trickle charger needed to be disconnected when I started using the house battery on the MH. I did. Floyd

Floyd,
I don't have the answer to how many amps the output is but I can tell you this.....it's less than the draw of the procomp fan! I'm using the same fan as you on my 40008 setup and within an hour or so of run time the fan is turning noticebly slower and the battery doesn't have enough juice to restart the genny. I'm only partially enclosed and have gotten away without running the fan in cooler temperatures. I'm planning on switching to a $20 Walmart ac 20" box fan when I get to completing my installation.

[Old___Slow]

AC ripple effect for the 12v/10a output.

Champion (CPE) must have put this bulletin out? I ask CPE long ago about this issue, no response. There was a question as to how long a 12v fan could last with this output. Floyd

[trumptman88]

77charger wrote:

professor95 wrote:

77charger wrote:
For mine i use filter oil on the air filter as well as grease the end of the foam which helps alot.I usually have to clean my gen once a season(carb area due to sticking).

I assume the oil is something like K&N recharger oil?

When you say "grease the end of the foam" I see you putting axle and bearing grease around all of the edges?

smart man!

i just use air filter oil for a dirtbike spray it on and then compress it.These champion filters werent designed for the conditions i use the gen in.Sand will get thru anything it can so i figured i would at least slow it down,I ought to take a picture of the filter next time after a long weekend stay if the wind picks up.

I've run mine down in the sand on a piece of plywood but mostly in the back of the pickup. Since I haven't used the air filter oil I ought to take a picture of the air filter and beginning of the carb air intake for comparison purposes.

Air Filter
1. Remove the snap-on cover holding the
air filter to the assembly.
2. Remove the foam element.
3. Wash in liquid detergent and water.
Squeeze thoroughly dry in a clean cloth.
4. Saturate in clean engine oil.
5. Squeeze in a clean, absorbent cloth to
remove all excess oil.
6. Place the filter in the assembly.
7. Reattach the air filter cover and snap in
place.

Opps... thank goodness this thing was $300 just in case ignorance isn't bliss here.

I'm getting ready to add some Stabil to the gas and will do what I ought to on the air filter. I'll take some before pics to show what my lack of knowledge and maintenance might have wrought. I've only recently begun doing the maintenance on my own quads and so I started buying the air filter oil. It might be a nice recommendation for all of us to look into instead of trying to use engine oil. It sprays right on in a very convenient manner and I bet if folks were honest most of them haven't been treating their air filters with oil