3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[snarfattack]

TKMJ wrote:
The panel is a Federal Picific with the stab lock breakers. Long ago FPE lost their UL aproval on the breakers due to not properly triping and poor design of locking into the bus. Now we call them "Federal no trips". When he purchased the home five years ago, I'm sure the inspector sent out by his mortgage company would have flagged the panel.

It doesn't take very much googling to figure out the FPE panels are fire hazards. My brother had one in a house he purchased a few years ago. Pulled the meter immediately when it started just randomly throwing sparks. If he has an insurance company, shouldn't be too hard for him to blame it on that panel in court...

BTW, I should be the proud owner of a Champion 40051 within the next week!

[Old___Slow]

Santa,

You made a stop in VA. and I tied a Red Pontiac Fiero to the sleigh for the reture to the North Pole. I'll return it next year as driver pulling the sleigh as you are old and need to retire now like the professor. He has promissed a trade for one powered by a nuke engine and a flux capacitor and a GFCI.:C

Ruddy

[Rotton_Rob]

Merry Christmas , To all of you....

[professor95]

Christmas Day 2008

No snow in Richmond, VA. We awoke to sunny skies and a temperature of 64 degrees F.

Santa came last night. He left the following note:

I’m sorry none of the reindeer food you left was eaten. I had to leave my team In Chicago and switch over to my camper and the DuraMax 3500 Dually. So, rather than eight tiny reindeer pulling my sleigh, I have eight huge pistons doing the work.

My fuel mileage was a little down, so I did take the five gallon jug of diesel fuel and the red container of gasoline you left outside.

Rudolph came along for the ride and has been in the trailer eating cookies and watching old Christmas movies since we left Chicago. He has been very unhappy since we ran out of gas for the Chinese 3,000 watt class generator after our deliveries in Manassas. Now that it is refueled, he can finish watching “A Wonderful Life”.

I am leaving you the Smart Sensor 5.7 water pump you asked for, along with a stocking full of spark plugs and synthetic oil for your genny.

P.S. – I saw Paul Cole (from Champion Power Equipment) and his new bride Selina while I was delivering gifts in China. He asked me to leave this photo for you and Nancy.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you, yours and all of those great RV folks that are on the Chinese 3,000 Watt Generator Thread!!! If it were not for the good information from you guys, Rudolph would not have power from a generator to watch his videos!!!!

Ho Ho Ho Ho……… Santa

[Old___Slow]

Marry Christmas to our Professor95

[Old___Slow]

JC,

Nice 4:27~din't know a cam was running. But, Prof', OMG :R :B

Break a leg and Happy Holidays.

Floyd

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Off subject, WAY off topic - but with the six Fieros -
the Prof needs this!
And . . . .
Floyd . . . is that you on the Segway?, LOL!

gymkhana

BTW - If you're gonna rob banks - this is the guy you
want driving the get-away car!

Location is the former El Toro (CA) Marine Base - which is in
a very slow transition to becoming a huge park within the city
limits of Irvine, CA.

~

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Old & Slow wrote:
JC;

You have become a ol (old) SAGE Bombero and you are no bushman.

Seems you know some things and folks. Mo' Cops and wonderful Firemen. They offer us a chance to live and survive the stupido.

Floyd

Thanks Floyd. Experience is a great instructor. When you're in
"the business" you get to learn a lot from other's mistakes
(and sadly, often mis-fortunes).

JC

[TKMJ]

professor95 wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:
Prof,

On the subject of adding GFCI to our gennys. Several questions.

1. Assuming a 30a is available to replace the 20a recpt. in the C46540 can it just be jumpered to the 30a RV recpt? Only connect the white and black wires? And must I know if my MH has a floating neutral?

2. If I were to accidentally touch a black and white wire down stream from a GFCI, would the result be less dangerious than depending on a breaker. I assume the result from a GFCI @ 5ma would only be a slight zap. Maybe you could offer some differing results in safety. And any further thoughts about the vibration issue?

Floyd

Unless you are an electrician and fully understand what you are doing behind the panel on the genny, I would strongly urge you to leave it "as is" and purchase the portable GFCI. You will not need to wire anything and will also have the added benefit of transient and surge supression both when connected to a generator and park power. Thus, you get two for one on that deal (protection on park power and on genny power).

Back when I was doing my Cardiac training as an EMT, there were several lectures devoted to electrocution. Under the absolutely worst situations where the electrical current passes directly across the heart and bisects what is known as the SA node an electrical shock with 4-6 MA current (120 VAC or higher) is capable of causing the heart to go into V-Fib.

Understand that a number of conditions must be exactly right for this wrong thing to happen. Truthfully, the likelyhood of 4-6 MA of current killing you are minimal. Thus, your chances are much, much better using a GFCI than hoping a circuit breaker will trip before you are dead.

Get a GFCI pigtale. The portable pigtale can be used for other things as well. For example when you wind up in an old campground where 120v is available but is not GFCI protected. You can plug your coach right in with the pigtale and be GFCI protected. You may also find many uses arount the house and yard as well for the pigtale. Don't limit youself. One tool does multipul jobs in this case.

[TKMJ]

professor95 wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:
Prof,

On the subject of adding GFCI to our gennys. Several questions.

1. Assuming a 30a is available to replace the 20a recpt. in the C46540 can it just be jumpered to the 30a RV recpt? Only connect the white and black wires? And must I know if my MH has a floating neutral?

2. If I were to accidentally touch a black and white wire down stream from a GFCI, would the result be less dangerious than depending on a breaker. I assume the result from a GFCI @ 5ma would only be a slight zap. Maybe you could offer some differing results in safety. And any further thoughts about the vibration issue?

I fully agree! As an electrician I would use the GFCI pigtail. No need to get into the unit as well. Another issue is if the pigtale GFCI becomes defective for some reason, yiu can replace it at the drop of a hat. Another reason to use the pigtale if if you end up in a campground where 120V is available but is not GFCI protected. (older campgrounds. You can also use the pigtale for use other then RV without the genny.;)

Floyd

Unless you are an electrician and fully understand what you are doing behind the panel on the genny, I would strongly urge you to leave it "as is" and purchase the portable GFCI. You will not need to wire anything and will also have the added benefit of transient and surge supression both when connected to a generator and park power. Thus, you get two for one on that deal (protection on park power and on genny power).

Back when I was doing my Cardiac training as an EMT, there were several lectures devoted to electrocution. Under the absolutely worst situations where the electrical current passes directly across the heart and bisects what is known as the SA node an electrical shock with 4-6 MA current (120 VAC or higher) is capable of causing the heart to go into V-Fib.

Understand that a number of conditions must be exactly right for this wrong thing to happen. Truthfully, the likelyhood of 4-6 MA of current killing you are minimal. Thus, your chances are much, much better using a GFCI than hoping a circuit breaker will trip before you are dead.

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
Prof,

On the subject of adding GFCI to our gennys. Several questions.

1. Assuming a 30a is available to replace the 20a recpt. in the C46540 can it just be jumpered to the 30a RV recpt? Only connect the white and black wires? And must I know if my MH has a floating neutral?

2. If I were to accidentally touch a black and white wire down stream from a GFCI, would the result be less dangerious than depending on a breaker. I assume the result from a GFCI @ 5ma would only be a slight zap. Maybe you could offer some differing results in safety. And any further thoughts about the vibration issue?

Floyd

Unless you are an electrician and fully understand what you are doing behind the panel on the genny, I would strongly urge you to leave it "as is" and purchase the portable GFCI. You will not need to wire anything and will also have the added benefit of transient and surge supression both when connected to a generator and park power. Thus, you get two for one on that deal (protection on park power and on genny power).

Back when I was doing my Cardiac training as an EMT, there were several lectures devoted to electrocution. Under the absolutely worst situations where the electrical current passes directly across the heart and bisects what is known as the SA node an electrical shock with 4-6 MA current (120 VAC or higher) is capable of causing the heart to go into V-Fib.

Understand that a number of conditions must be exactly right for this wrong thing to happen. Truthfully, the likelyhood of 4-6 MA of current killing you are minimal. Thus, your chances are much, much better using a GFCI than hoping a circuit breaker will trip before you are dead.

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
Prof,

On the subject of adding GFCI to our gennys. Several questions.

1. Assuming a 30a is available to replace the 20a recpt. in the C46540 can it just be jumpered to the 30a RV recpt? Only connect the white and black wires? And must I know if my MH has a floating neutral?

2. If I were to accidentally touch a black and white wire down stream from a GFCI, would the result be less dangerious than depending on a breaker. I assume the result from a GFCI @ 5ma would only be a slight zap. Maybe you could offer some differing results in safety. And any further thoughts about the vibration issue?

Floyd

[Old___Slow]

Prof,

On the subject of adding GFCI to our gennys. Several questions.

1. Assuming a 30a is available to replace the 20a recpt. in the C46540 can it just be jumpered to the 30a RV recpt? Only connect the white and black wires? And must I know if my MH has a floating neutral?

2. If I were to accidentally touch a black and white wire down stream from a GFCI, would the result be less dangerious than depending on a breaker. I assume the result from a GFCI @ 5ma would only be a slight zap. Maybe you could offer some differing results in safety. And any further thoughts about the vibration issue?

Floyd

[Old___Slow]

JC;

You have become a ol (old) SAGE Bombero and you are no bushman.

Seems you know some things and folks. Mo' Cops and wonderful Firemen. They offer us a chance to live and survive the stupido.

Floyd

[Wgeorge11]

I learned in the military that there are always 10% who never get the word ... or understand the message. They will reinvent the wheel or do stupid stuff in spite of warning stickers including the 10 or 20 posted on the step ladder on its proper use like "don't stand on top step." They will. A hot shot lawyer will sue deep pockets. The earth will turn once a day. Predictable, huh?