3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[MrWizard]

here is thread about the HW's, http://www.rv.net/cforum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/22886791.cfm

[Rod_Wise]

Does anyone have any info on origin of the Honeywell generators that Walmart sells on line; they come with a 3 year warranty, and prices seem reasonable.

[racefan1965]

I almost bought the 1800 watt model that costs $499.00 but couldn't find one review of the unit so I went with the honeywell from walmart instead. I paid almost $100 more but got 500 more watts and reviews that made buying it easier.lol

[toprudder]

Slightly off topic, but perhaps interesting to some of the readers here.

I bought this generator for a non-RV need that I had. It is a digital inverter 750w generator from ETQ. $293 including shipping.

Light, only 26lbs. Filled with oil and gas, started second pull. Quiet, but maybe not as quiet as a Honda. Plugged in a 500w halogen light and worked great. So far, so good.

For the heck of it, I tried hooking up my 45 amp RV converter (Intellipower) and it tripped the generator every time. No matter whether the converter was connected to a battery or not, it tripped. The converter is rated for less than 700w with a full load. Not so good. The really bad thing is that the only way to reset the overload circuit is to shut it down and restart it. A hot restart takes about 10 or 12 pulls -- also not good.

The purpose I had intended it for was to provide power to a 13.8v DC power supply (RV converter was my intention) to power battery chargers for my electric model airplanes. It would power my 20A power supply but would occasionally trip when I first plugged it in, and taking it out of ECO mode actually made it worse. Seems it can't handle much inrush current when the power supply capacitors are charging up. Once powered up, it ran the chargers just fine. Adding a 50 foot AC extension cable between the generator and power supply cured the tripping problem with the 20A supply (slight increase in resistance and consequently slight decrease in inrush current) but I have not had a chance to try it with my RV converter yet.

Since it does actually work for my intended purpose, I may keep it. But, I would not have bought it had I known the issues.

EDIT: It does NOT have a 12v output as stated in the product description.

[professor95]

Emptyspaces wrote:
professor95,

Any idea when the new Champion models will be available?

The info I have received indicates that they are available now and are being sent to distributors as their current inventory is sold. Just like anything that has a model change the previous models will stay in the pipeline as long as there is inventory.

[Emptyspaces]

professor95,

Any idea when the new Champion models will be available?

[tvman44]

Professor lets us know when you hear of the kit being available. I would like to put one for when I use the Champ other than on the 5er.

professor95 wrote:

tvman44 wrote:
Professor do you think Champ will offer a kit to add to the C46540 to add over voltage protection?

Expect a kit to be available soon.

[tvman44]

Professor lets us know when you hear of the kit being available. I would like to put one for when I use the Champ other than on the 5er.

professor95 wrote:

tvman44 wrote:
Professor do you think Champ will offer a kit to add to the C46540 to add over voltage protection?

Expect a kit to be available soon.

[professor95]

racefan1965 wrote:
The only thing different this year from years past is that I went from regular oil to synthetic right before Infineon.

The biggest cause of oil leaks on the Chonda engines is overfilling the crankcase with oil.

Be absolutely sure the engine is level and fill only to the lower threads on the oil fill plug. Oil level should be checked with the cap unscrewed and just placed into the hole. Most folks fill the crankcase all the way to the top of the oil fill plug so it runs out and then quickly put the cap back on. That is NOT the correct way and overfills the crankcase.

Don't know if this is what you experienced or not, but it is something to check out.

Also, synthetic is "said" to leak around seals more easily than conventional oil. Don't know if this is myth or truth.

Another way to look at it is like we did with the old Triumph Motorcycle engines: "If it ain't leakin' oil then there ain't none in it!"

[professor95]

tvman44 wrote:
Professor do you think Champ will offer a kit to add to the C46540 to add over voltage protection?

Expect a kit to be available soon.

[MrWizard]

racefan1965
i would worry to much about a valve cover leak, those gaskets are easily replaced, four bolts hold the valve cover, I think 8mm heads, they might be a little loose,

IF it leaks from under the engine, that might be case gasket. that would require some dis-assembly to split the crankcase and replace

[tvman44]

Professor do you think Champ will offer a kit to add to the C46540 to add over voltage protection? If not I might build my own even thou my surge guard in the 5er has over voltage protection. I was thinking of protection for when I might use it for something else besides the 5er.

[racefan1965]

Well my beloved champion is showing its age. Went to unload it from the utility trailer I had it on and found a puddle of oil under it. Seems I've developed a leak from the valve cover. We just used this generator for 8 hours a day for 5 days straight at Infineon raceway and I never saw a puff of smoke or a drop of oil anywhere. Now from just sitting it decides to puke out oil from the cover. The only thing different this year from years past is that I went from regular oil to synthetic right before Infineon. Do you get more oil pressure from synthetic? Could the extra pressure have caused the leak? Why would it not show until after it's sat for 2 weeks? Yes it sat in the sun but would that have mattered? Would the heat build too much pressure to rupture the valve cover gasket (if there is a gasket)? I'm not healthy enough to move it by myself and I couldn't get any help from someone else to move it until today.
Thank you all in advance for your help, suggestions and ideas.
Rick

PS. Guess ordering that Honeywell last night was a smart idea after all.:)

PSS. Does anyone know where the professors pics about adjusting valves are in this thread? I've searched and searched and can't find them.

[professor95]

These are the new model numbers for Champion Power Equipment’s 3,000 watt class Chinese built open frame direct drive non-inverter generators sold in the USA.

The 40012 (Home Depot model) has been replaced by the 44511.
Main Features include: 120 VAC only, L5-30 twist lock outlet, two duplex outlets, RV adapter included (NO 30 amp RV outlet), analog voltmeter, wheel kit included. EPA Certified. Note: This model has a bonded neutral conductor.

The C46540 has been replaced by the 46514. This is the model sold by TSC, Cabala’s, CSK, etc.
Main Features include: Dual voltage 120/240 VAC with voltage selector switch, L14-30 twist lock outlet, 30 amp RV receptacle providing full rated wattage of generator at 120 VAC, single 120 VAC standard outlet, analog voltmeter. Wheel kit is NOT included. EPA Certified.

The 46543 is the new California Air Resources Board certified model with a catalytic converter built into the muffler assembly. EPA and CARB Certified.
Main Features include: 120 VAC only, L5-30 twist lock outlet, 30 amp RV receptacle, single 120 VAC outlet, analog voltmeter, catalytic converter.

The 44611, 46514 and the 46543 now include circuitry that will shut down the engine should there be a failure of the Automatic Voltage Regulator that could allow the voltage provided to a 120 VAC outlet to rise above 142 VAC.

Just like the previous addition of the 30 amp TT outlet and provisions for full wattage at 120 volts that were added to the older model C46535, the OVP feature on CPE 3,000 watt class generators is a direct result of what RV owners on this thread have asked for.

[MrWizard]

NO thats NOT an experimental unit, and why shouldn't it be clean, it stored in an enclosed compartment in this MH.

when installed in the other RV on the slide out, it did pickup more dust, but the compartment door was sealed, and the tray was a full bottom, so there was very little road grime, since it was on the tray it was totally assessable and got wiped down every time i used it.

here is an picture from the PA, I'm sure you have seen this before


in the picture you are commenting on, i think you are mistaking a piece of black 'heat riser' tubing on the floor the compartment in front of the champion for part of the champion.

its a spare part that came with the MH, behind the champ is my spare tire. and some chairs