3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

The gauge is a 2 wire hook-up. The 2010 CPE models that do not include the gauge have the plug in their wiring harness for easily adding one.

On models like the 36540 that has the old analog gauge, you must carefully cut a rectangular opening in the front panel. I drilled holes first then finished up with a metal file. This style gauge is best glued into the generator's metal panel when retrofitting by using RTV adhesive on the back side. Cut off the white male plug that comes with the gauge and then wire it directly to the analog gauge wires or any 120 VAC outlet. There is a red wire and black wire for power - no polarity is observed. The blue and green wires go to the "cycle button" used on the original style gauges (newest gauges have button built in). There are two part numbers for the gauge - one for 120 VAC and another for 240 VAC. The 240 VAC gauge will not register voltage correctly when connected to 120 VAC.

The photos below were posted when the gauge was first introduced a little over a year ago. The gauge I used for the photos has been included in the "power control panel" (at the bottom of the panel) I built and installed in my trailer to manage all of my power functions. The gauge in my remote power monitoring panel also monitors the voltage and frequency of the park incoming power when I plug into a pedestal - a nice added feature.

The last photo shows the gauge added to my 40008. It is directly over my "195 degree shutdown" label. The gauge shown is a redesigned "prototype" that installs with front panel screws and has the cycle button built in. I'm not sure if it has made it into regular production or parts supplies yet.

They are really nice gauges. You can order them from CPE parts. Be sure to get the cycle button too.


HZ MODE


RUNNING HOUR MODE


VOLTAGE MODE






MOUNTED IN MY POWER CONTROL PANEL INSIDE THE TRAILER (BOTTOM METER)


METER ADDED TO MY 40008 CPE GENERATOR MOUNTED INSIDE THE FRONT COMPARTMENT OF MY FIFTH WHEEL TRAILER

[pritch272]

I like that 3-way gauge, running hours, voltage and hertz all in one!

I wonder if one could be added to the "regular" champion?

[professor95]

Way to go, Bob!

I believe the 40026 may have a bonded neutral, even though the wiring diagram does not show it.

[toprudder]

I recently sold my old class C motorhome (with built-in Onan) and purchased a small toyhauler. One of the items close to the top of my must-have list was a new generator.

Well, after reading this thread for a couple of years, I finally broke down and bought a Champion generator. Model 40026, RV ready, with wheel kit. The local Lowes had it on sale for $329. It has the RV style 30A receptacle that can supply 25A. It also has a 30A twistlock, and a 120v duplex outlet. It also has the "Intelligauge".

I had been looking for one at the local Tractor Supply (they are close to where I work) but they have not had one in several weeks. I know Lowes has carried this model for several weeks at $349. The wife and I just happened to go in their tonight for something else 🙂 and I noticed it was on sale.

I have not fired it up yet, but plan to do that this weekend.

[Megawatt]

Yep... I agree I need to run it more often. It has had two oil changes already.

"No" to the corrosion or rust. The governor shaft actually has oil all around it in its seated position. It stays well lubed by design.

[toprudder]

MrWizard wrote:
and some models at home depot, just NOT the RV model, but they do carry a similar model with a 'twist lock to RV adapter'

The local Lowes carries the RV model (don't remember the model number) but it DOES have the 30A RV receptacle. It also has the wheel kit. $350.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Good advice Wiz -
It's kinda like taking the dog/s for a walk . . .
but they let you know it's time - the gen/s don't, LOL!

~

[MrWizard]

maybe some 'gummy' deposits on th counter weight, i think a nice 1hr run, and then an oil change is in-order,

you said it had about 5hrs runtime on it.. thats not enough time for monthly running, thats barely the break-in for the first oil change.

when i got mine i ran 5 hrs the first day then changed the oil, this removes any metal filings left behind from the mfg, i think its even listed in the manual, to run it 5 hrs under light-med load, then change the oil.

you need a 1 hr run even if every other month instead of monthly, you need to bring the engine up to operating temp and hold it there to remove moisture from the crankcase oil and fuel system and to get all the parts adequately lubed.

with a engine driven genny, its use it or loose it, more die from accidental neglect than from too many hours

BTW: glad you got it fixed

[presp]

Megawatt wrote:
It's working now !!... There was absolutely no dirt or sand in or around the shaft itself.

How about corrosion, oxidation/rust?
Something has to inhibit its free movement.

Did you consider putting some lube on the shaft to minimize
further seizing problems as it ages?

[MrWizard]

and some models at home depot, just NOT the RV model, but they do carry a similar model with a 'twist lock to RV adapter'

[Megawatt]

It's working now !!
Professor, Mr Wizard and others... Thanks for all the suggestions on getting my governor assembly to work. I placed another call to CPE today. I am thoroughly impressed with CPE's customer service! My genny is out of warranty but several suggestions were made to get the problem corrected that were more than satisfactory. Again, I can't say enough about CPE's customer service.
Ok.. back to the problem. As a last attemp to correct the governor shaft issue I pulled the governor arm off and removed the retaining clip from the shaft. I worked the shaft up and down and side to side many times then reattached the arm. I fired the genny up and it was responding immediately. I tested it with various loads including the trailer air conditioner and it seems to be ok now. I went ahead and set the frequency (RPM's) and adjusted the AVR.
CPE couldn't explain why or what could cause this but it's certainly not impossible as we have just witnessed. So...as long as the governor continues to work correctly I'm a happy camper.
Professor.... you have seen this assembly from the inside. I noticed the shaft (when seated) can only go in one way but the retaining clip holds it up about 1/4 inch. I'm not sure from your pic what the shaft sits on inside. Actually, I guess it just kinda floats in the counterweight assembly. So, would it be possible for the counterweight just to be frozen ?? Appartently the shaft is ok but I freed up something????. There was absolutely no dirt or sand in or around the shaft itself.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

mauricedorris: (Just one more "add" to the Prof's info)
"I can go to the warehouse and actually see them".

MD, FYI: I see you're in L.A., CA.
Unless you're really close to Champion HQ ("warehouse") you can see Champion gens easily at any Kragen's Auto Supply.

~

[professor95]

mauricedorris wrote:
OK... this thread is kinda like reading war and peace ! Its informative, but way to big to find the answers to my question. I have an 89 class c with an onan 4kw emerald 1 generator that I am just sick of investing in. Its cost me at least $2000 over the past 5 years in various repairs. Now its down again. I am DONE with this particular generator.

I guess I'll go get a Champion or a Duropower cause they are both pretty close to me. I can go the warehouse and actually see them.

The advantage of the Duropower over the Champion will be the availability of an electric start model at a reasonable price on the DuroPower. CPE currently only has electric start models available thru Ultra-Fab dealers at a rather significant price mark-up (NOT CPE's doing) But, you can order an electric starter add-on kit from a 3rd party vendor to put on the Champion generator for about $100 (source and install detailed somewhere around April ?? '09 in this thread).

On the other hand, the technical and warranty support available from CPE is far superior to anything you might receive from DuroPower.

I cannot tell you which one is "better". But, I do know CPE has made a number of refinements recently that appear to have created a more reliable product over the longer term.

mauricedorris wrote:
Questions:

1. how do you compensate for elevation changes. I go from sea level to almost 8000ft on some of my camping trips.

There does not appear to be a re-jetting kit available from CPE. Most of the guys simply "live with it" as is.

mauricedorris wrote:
2. Is is possible to simply mount the generator in my existing generator compartment? If I got creative, I could realistically put in a 30amp receptacle right in the generator compartment and maybe figure out a way to use the existing gas line to feed into the champion/duropower, right?

No (see answers to other questions below)

Also note the page(s) MrWizard has referenced and how he uses a pull-out tray with his system.

You can use your existing fuel line but will need to purchase a Walbro vacuum fuel pump and a marine fuel line with a primer bulb. A vacuum port to operate the pump must be drilled into the existing carburetor.

mauricedorris wrote:
3. I have a 4K watt onan. I don't know much about that one except that its expensive to fix. So is the 4k watts nominal or surge (am I saying this right?) I need to run the roof air a fridge and an occasional microwave. Do I need something bigger than the RV generators and their 3500 watts.

Of those of us who are using the 3,500 watt Chinese generators, the majority are successfully running their A/C and microwave ovens. A few issues with hard to start A/C units have been reported.

mauricedorris wrote:
4. If I mount it into the compartment, would I have a problem with heat? there is a screen door and the bottom is open on the compartment. Would I also need a fan? The onan worked fine in this same compartment. More than anything, I would need the compartment to be able to store the generator.

You will have a problem with heat. Remember, the Chinese generator is designed to run out in the open. Your Onan was designed for an enclosure. Chinese open frame genny manufacturers do not support compartment use.

Several members of this thread have successfully created an install that gets around the heat issue. It does require some fabrication of parts and an understanding of the needed air flow for the generator to run cool. "If" you are so inclined, we will provide advice related to what has worked for us. But, since each install is unique, the final result and responsibility is going to be all yours! In short, if your genny experiences a melt down - don't look at me!

I use a downdraft fan to pull air into and across my generator, then expel it out the bottom . You could do the same by pulling air into your screen door and thn ejecting it out the bottom where your cabinet is open. A 12 VDC electric fan of this type can be found in an auto salvage yard. They are used to pull air into a radiator. Sufficient battery power for the fan will be needed since it draws about 8 amps.

mauricedorris wrote:
5. How is the noise realistically. My existing Onan is not quiet at all. Its noisy as hell and vibrates the entire motorhome.

The Chinese open frame 3,000 watt class generators are rated at 67dBA. As load on the engine increases, so will sound levels. At full load a typical 3,000 watt genny will increase to approximately 72 dBA. The noise will be "about the same" as your Onan.

The muffler or exhaust is not the source of the noise. Actually, the exhaust is extremely quite. The mechanical noise, especially from the crankcase of the engine, is the problem. Nominal sound baffling will do a lot to reduce noise. I have changed my previous opinions on sound reduction to: Design a compartment for optimal air flow and cooling - sound reduction is secondary and will naturally occur with baffels (panels) adjacent to the generator.

If the OEM fuel tank is retained, it must be vented to the outside of the compartment. The same precautions required for marine applications with permanently installed fuel tanks in the hold of the boat should be observed. This includes running an exhaust fan before starting an engine to expel any possible gasoline fumes.

If you really want quite, consider TWO 2000 watt Honda inverter generators with the parallel harness. These cannot be mounted in a compartment, are not electric start and will have a limited number of run hours due to the smaller fuel tank. But, they are very quite with a RV A/C when run in tandem. (also expensive compared to a 3,000 watt class Chinese genny)

mauricedorris wrote:
Any advice is appreciated. I am ACTIVELY looking for a replacement generator to replace the one I have. I need to AC to keep the wife happy. You guys can surely appreciate my sense of urgency.

I tried to find all these answers, but gave up after reading the first 120 pages or so. This is obviously a great thread..

Yep. As you said it is sort of like reading War and Peace.

mauricedorris wrote:
Thanks

Maurice
89 class c with a onan emerald I 4kw boat anchor
empty wallet from fixing it

[professor95]

Megawatt,

Unfortunately, it is beginning to sound like your governor problem may not resolvable from the outside of the engine.

Is you generator still under warranty? If so, take it to an authorized service center or ask for a replacement from CPE.

Inside the engine crankcase there is a counterweight. As engine speed increases, there is more force from the counterweight on the governor shaft, which pushes out on the rod to maintain engine speed. I am enclosing a photo I made of the inside of the engine showing the counterweight mechanism.

I am assuming that you have tested the force applied to the governor arm from the shaft while the engine is running to determine if the counterweight is indeed applying increasing force as engine speed goes up? You can do this simply by "feeling" or with a small spring scale. Of course, unless you have another engine to compare the force with, it may be difficult to determine if it is too little.

While I have never encountered a generator engine with a bad internal mechanism, it certainly is not impossible for it to fail. Now that you have covered all the external components it's time to look inside.

[Megawatt]

Mr. Wizard.. I did exactly what you suggested. Actually, I placed a call to the CPE technician whom also agreed that the governor assembly must not be working correctly. He sent me a tech bulletin that explains how to adjust this assembly to the factory setting which is the same procedure that you stated.
My governor arm was already at the full throttle position. I was able to move the governor shaft about 1/16 inch in the clockwise direction but that was it. I tightened the pinch bolt back down with everything set in place.
Unfortunately, after I started the genny and placed a load on it their was still no governor response when the RPMs dropped. I even set the gas tank aside (still connected) so I could closely observe the governor shaft movement (or lack of).
However, when I turn the fuel supply off, the generator will steadily slow down as it runs out of gas (still no governor response) until it is just about to the point of cutting off the governor will then open the throttle and speed up and down a few times before the genny cuts off. I found this puzzling ????
Bottom line is there is still no governor response to a changes in load. I guess I will try calling CPE back tomorrow for any other suggestions. What sucks is this genny only had about 5 hours on it pryor to this weekend from me exercising it monthly but it's about 4 months out of warranty. I just thought the high RPM's were normal.
Hopefully I can get it resolved. Any other suggestions to try ? I didn't want to pull up or push down on the shaft part to hard not knowing how it's connected inside the motor. It seems to just sit there with a cotter pin which holds it up at a certain position. I does move very freely when the governor arm is detached.