3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[jlaustin]

Old & Slow wrote:

Hmmm, Anxious to hear from John with his review of the DuroPower gen. Now, if all is well with the report, and the panels do lower the dBA, perhaps Prof' may have the equipment mentioned above to make the panels. If John will give us an idea of the sound difference with the panels, on and off, this will be interesting. Just bolt the four panels on? With some type of foam attached on the inside of the panels? Wow.

John, please tell us the method used to cool this unit.

Thanks O & S
Floyd

FIRST IMPRESSIONS DUROPOWER 3500ES

Fedex dropped the 3500ES off today. It arrived intact! I cut it out of the shipping box, installed the wheels and stand, put gas and oil in it, and it started on the 2nd easy pull!:C

I have a Generac 3500XL with essentially the same engine but it does not have the enclosed panels. The 3500ES is significantly quieter - I don't have a db meter, but you can stand right beside it (indoors in a garage) and have a comfortable conversation without raising your voice. It looks well-made - good fit and finish - and has some nice touches I didn't expect. There is a fuel strainer inside the gas tank neck and a fuel gauge in the tank. The steel enclosure panels are lined with a foam material for sound absorption. They send you some rudimentary tools to assemble it with and even a couple of male plugs to connect power cords to the 15 and 30 amp receptacles! The muffler is very quiet but the exhaust points straight out one end through a panel opening. I'll probably put an elbow on the exhaust and exit it straight down under the gennie if the airflow is cooperative, which I think it is. The stock unit has no special cooling I can see - there are strategically placed holes in the panels for the exhaust, oil stick access, etc., but it looks like the major ventilation is through the open bottom of the gennie frame. If I line the frame with Hardiebacker, I'll probably retain some of the holes and duct them in a downward direction to direct the sound down.

Now the bad part - the battery was dead and only registered 10.56 volts, so it is probably toast. I've read elsewhere that Duropower considers the battery a "free bonus" and doesn't warranty it. I've got it on a BatteryMinder to see if I can resuscitate it, but I doubt it. Also, it was very dismaying to see gasoline dripping from beneath the gennie when I opened the fuel petcock!:M I removed one of the panels and checked it out - the fuel line from the petcock to the carburetor was cut so short it had tension on it. Due to the tension, it was trying to back off the the carb inlet and was barely attached - that's why it leaked. I shoved it back on and that fixed it, but the line is still under tension. I'm going to put a fuel filter in the line (I did this on the Generac and it saved me a lot of grief) and that will lengthen the line and take the tension off and it should be fine. About the only other minor gripe is that the battery cables were in pretty close contact with the the heat shield below the engine cylinder. I'm going to tie-wrap them a little farther away or re-route them.

The manual is brief, but it does have a schematic of the wiring. I easily located the starter solenoid wire (I'll need that when I install the remote starter) and also found the low oil pressure cut-off sensor wire. It grounds out the coil when low pressure exists, so I'll probably use it for the engine kill on the remoter starter since it is so readily accessible.

The manual actually covered the 3500ES and the 3500RES. Apparently they have the exact same model with remote start, but I swear I didn't see it available on the website when I got the 3500ES ($349.99 delivered!) I searched the DuroPower site tonight and sure enough, it pulled up the 3500RES for $399.99 delivered! However, I think I'm going to like my remote starter kit (Ultra Start G11-XR, $23.50 delivered) better since it has loads of programmable functions and I can use the door lock/unlock buttons to actuate the primer when I convert it to LPG. As far as I can determine, the DuroPower remote start just actuates the starter or kills the engine - no other options.

Sooo, I'm going to break it in for a while, then install the remote starter, then probably convert to LPG. I still may add some strategically placed Hardiebacker panels inside the frame to attempt to quiet it further. I'll document the process and post pics, etc.

My "Stowaway2" 2" hitch frame arrives Friday and I'll also be figuring out how I'm going to mount the gennie on the back of my FW.

More later!

Regards,
John

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:
Anyone ever try using cement board for a gen box? What method is used to cut the openings? Drilling holes? How much is the dBA lowered?

snip:

Of course, if you have access to a combination metal shear and brake along with a welder then steel panels such as DuroPower uses on their "Silent" models would be preferred.

Hmmm, Anxious to hear from John with his review of the DuroPower gen. Now, if all is well with the report, and the panels do lower the dBA, perhaps Prof' may have the equipment mentioned above to make the panels. If John will give us an idea of the sound difference with the panels, on and off, this will be interesting. Just bolt the four panels on? With some type of foam attached on the inside of the panels? Wow.

John, please tell us the method used to cool this unit.

Thanks O & S
Floyd

[jlaustin]

professor95 wrote:
Door lock actuators are actually motors rather than solenoids. Thus, they need both a positive and negative flip flop power source to work. I prefer solenoids.

Good sources are trunk lock release solenoids from junk cars and choke solenoids off of old outboard motors. I used a GM trunk lock solenoid (pull) with a strap hinge over the primer button to work the LPG primer. I think I posted a picture of it last year when I was working on all that stuff.

I saw that setup you built. I happen to have a couple of solenoids laying around, so it would be simple to build a circuit to trigger the door lock actuators in and out - I can use the door lock/unlock negative pulses to turn the primer on and off:

There's a parts yard nearby - if I can't find the actuator, maybe I'll find a choke solenoid!
Any estimate of the force necessary to depress the primer button?
Regards,
John

[professor95]

Door lock actuators are actually motors rather than solenoids. Thus, they need both a positive and negative flip flop power source to work. I prefer solenoids.

Good sources are trunk lock release solenoids from junk cars and choke solenoids off of old outboard motors. I used a GM trunk lock solenoid (pull) with a strap hinge over the primer button to work the LPG primer. I think I posted a picture of it last year when I was working on all that stuff.

[Old___Slow]

Hmmm, I was in PepBoys yesterday. Noticed a new 3500w UST gen. The muffler looked like a 1 qt juice can. No more large muffler. What's up with that? Are all the new Chinese 3000w gensets to be the same? Maybe my old Champion C46540 is best?


Oh, and the price, $399

[jlaustin]

professor95 wrote:


Nice little circuit. But, you do not need it. Unlike a car that must have 12 VDC to continue operation with the key in the run position, a generator does NOT.

All you to with the genny is UNGROUND the coil (key switch on) - engage starter solenoid til engine starts - leave key switch in run position so coil is ungrounded.

12 VDC is only needed for starter.

So, turn on genny key - leave on. An automotive remote will engage starter - engine starts and runs. No further action by auto remote is needed.

To turn off, ground coil - key switch still remains on. You can remove key if you want to "lock out" the system.

Use the door lock function to ground coil to shut down.

You will need a choke solenoid for gas or the LPG prime button. Trunk release function should work OK there.

NOW you tell me!:S OK - so if I understand correctly, I'll just need a circuit to ground the coil to kill the engine. Checked the installaton manual ... the remote starter control module has an auxilliary circuit that will proved a negative/ground for either 5 seconds or as long as a button is held down - that'll work great to kill the engine!

Does a choke solenoid push or pull? I also thought about using a door lock actuator to push the primer button.

Regards,
John

[MrWizard]

we're going to miss you, i'm will go out on a limb and say, that you'll be back with a MH, i've seen it before, people tired of maneuvering the big 5ver and truck quit the RV life, then come back with a MH shorter than the previous 'combined rig'

[blkfe]

bobandcat wrote:
To Randy & everyone posting on this forum.

I've enjoyed reading and contributing to this forum. However, I'm moving on. Sold my truck, my Montana and my Champion. The wife wants to start staying at motels instead of camping and I'm a little tired of maneuvering the 53 foot rig.

Good luck and God bless to all.

Best of luck to you. Check in from time to time.
Take care,
Brad

[professor95]

jlaustin wrote:
Supposed to get the DuroPower 3500 ES tomorrow. I'm going to break it in and make sure all is OK, then probably will add the remote start next. I scored a car remote starter kit on Ebay super cheap and plan to adapt it to the gennie. One snag I hit was that the remote starter does not allow for "infinite runtime". It is only programmable for 4, 15, or 45 minute runs and then it shuts the ignition down. I have designed a circuit that when the remote turns the ignition "on", it passively turns "on" another bypass ignition circuit so when the remote cuts out after the programmed time, the engine will continue to run. The circuit then can be triggered "off" using a negative pulse from the car door lock or unlock button on the remote. I think this circuit will work - plan to build up the relays and bench test it and if successful, install it on the gennie.
John

Nice little circuit. But, you do not need it. Unlike a car that must have 12 VDC to continue operation with the key in the run position, a generator does NOT.

All you to with the genny is UNGROUND the coil (key switch on) - engage starter solenoid til engine starts - leave key switch in run position so coil is ungrounded.

12 VDC is only needed for starter.

So, turn on genny key - leave on. An automotive remote will engage starter - engine starts and runs. No further action by auto remote is needed.

To turn off, ground coil - key switch still remains on. You can remove key if you want to "lock out" the system.

Use the door lock function to ground coil to shut down.

You will need a choke solenoid for gas or the LPG prime button. Trunk release function should work OK there.

[professor95]

bobandcat wrote:
To Randy & everyone posting on this forum.

I've enjoyed reading and contributing to this forum. However, I'm moving on. Sold my truck, my Montana and my Champion. The wife wants to start staying at motels instead of camping and I'm a little tired of maneuvering the 53 foot rig.

Good luck and God bless to all.

NO! NO! 😞

[jlaustin]

Supposed to get the DuroPower 3500 ES tomorrow. I'm going to break it in and make sure all is OK, then probably will add the remote start next. I scored a car remote starter kit on Ebay super cheap and plan to adapt it to the gennie. One snag I hit was that the remote starter does not allow for "infinite runtime". It is only programmable for 4, 15, or 45 minute runs and then it shuts the ignition down. I have designed a circuit that when the remote turns the ignition "on", it passively turns "on" another bypass ignition circuit so when the remote cuts out after the programmed time, the engine will continue to run. The circuit then can be triggered "off" using a negative pulse from the car door lock or unlock button on the remote. I think this circuit will work - plan to build up the relays and bench test it and if successful, install it on the gennie. Here's the circuit:
If anyone spots a problem with this design, let me know!
Regards,
John

[Old___Slow]

bobandcat~ Bob, I for one have received inspiration and much help from your posts over the years. Looking at your profile, you and Cat have covered the US and much of Canada RV'ing. Must have been fun. However, change is what life is all about. Even returing to the RV life, perhaps, with less rig. My own feeling is we have 'oversized' Sometimes less is better? More simple and less burden. Anyway, God speed.

[professor95]

gasser9 wrote:
The bevel on the "spud" tube in the block should bo oriented to the engine side ti create a vaccum to the regulator. Black pipe would be your best chouce, more resistant to abrasion & easier to run in a straight line & support along the frame. Galvanized can be uses for LPG also, (that ought to stir some stuff)

You can use anything you want - including bamboo poles. But, that does not mean it is what you should use.

The "thing" with galvanized and LPG is the possibility of small flakes of zinc in the galvanized coating that may be present inside the pipe that can cause damage to gas regulators and orifices if they should come loose. The same precautions are advised for compressed air lines.

Actually, this warning has always somewhat mystified me - especially on compressed air. Black iron has no internal coating and will oxidize (rust) quickly in the presence of moisture and oxygen. Of course, these are not suppose to be present in a NG or LPG piping system. But, both will be present in a compressed air system. Rust particles can also come loose and cause damage to fine components.

My take is use whichever piping - galvanized or black iron - you prefer but add an in-line filter before any regulators or small orifices. The filters run about $10 for 1/2" rigid pipe. Most any gas supplier should carry them.

P.S. I prefer to work with black iron and transition to soft copper where flexibility is needed. All RVs I have had the occasion to inspect use this system as well.

[bobandcat]

To Randy & everyone posting on this forum.

I've enjoyed reading and contributing to this forum. However, I'm moving on. Sold my truck, my Montana and my Champion. The wife wants to start staying at motels instead of camping and I'm a little tired of maneuvering the 53 foot rig.

Good luck and God bless to all.

[Old___Slow]

jlaustin wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:
... I ended in cutting it flat so I could close the choke. If it were to be needed? ...

I thought you never need a choke on the LPG conversion - just sometimes need a primer?
Regards,
John

John,

My gen will operate on Gas or LPG, so needed the choke to open and close. This is one advantage of having the LPG feed before the carb. The LPG feed into the carb as Professor has shown, may be the best way to go if only LPG is to be used. It is a proven mod. Also may be best for non Electric start. I have electric start.