3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[joelchappell]

I'm glad yours is quieter, no clatter. I guess the one I got had something wrong with it.

I may go ahead and order another. There isn't anything else out there that the companies care enough to support.

Thanks for the info Professor.

[professor95]

My new Champion RC/ES arrived today as scheduled. It was in a big, heavy cardboard box. It came by FedEx Ground.



It was parked really good so it was protected from moisture and shock.





The first thing I noticed was a change in the fuel tank design. This unit has a screw on non-vented fuel cap. The older ones have a vented click on cap.



There is also a tube from the tank to route fuel vapors to a charcoal canister then back into the carb - another EPA thing.





Even more EPA add-on stuff was found in the exhaust system. This looks like a fresh air intake for the catalytic converter inside the muffler.



The engine fan shroud and recoil starter have been redesigned. Not sure why. The starter housing is no longer round and it looks like the shroud may have a little more air space. I'll have to pull it off and compare to an old one.



The generator and muffler end appear unchanged. Note that the NFS required exhaust spark arrestor does come pre-installed on this model. Owners should watch for carbon build-up on the screen (or remove if not used in a National Forest).


A really cute little key-chain remote control. It works great, too!



The accessories were in a separate box. The wheel kit, front support and handle all install easily. The design for all 3 has been changed. The handle is the big improvement. It also will come off by pulling a hitch pin (the old one would not).





I really did not have time to do the proper testing. Maybe by Wednesday I can get all of that set up. But, I did measure out 21 feet and did a sound level test right on the mark (unloaded).





I did another 2 feet from the muffler.



And another inches away from the engine shroud, which was the absolute highest reading I could get.



I do not have the clanking on this generator that Joel reported on his. I suspect we will find a problem with the unit he returned.

Tomorrow or Wednesday I will run some more test and bench mark this unit against a previous model and a Kipor digital. I will share the results as soon as I can get them entered.

Right now I am impressed. Well built, engineered with many improvements and smooth running.

[professor95]

quabillion wrote:
Wow yall, this thread is something else :B

Say I'll have some pics to post soon of my eu3000 propane conversion, once I get the kinks worked out that is.

Where in the heck have you been hiding? I though you might have moved to Iran or something. Anyway, nice to have you back.
I think you are going to have to use two venturi feeds and a "T" load block with the 3000i. One feed before the carburetor and another behind. Do you remember the problems Sal (Salvo) ran into on his Yamaha back when we were doing all the LPG stuff on the thread? Go back and find the postings and reflect on how he overcame the fuel feed problem with the inverter engine. I think you will find the answer there.

Apparently you cannot feed LPG into a mufti-speed generator engine the same way as a constant speed synchronous.

[bill_h]

quabillion wrote:

bill h wrote:
Good Grief! With that solar farm upstairs, why would you need a generator?

Do you tow a battery trailer, too?

Har har har.


I live in the desert about 6 miles from the nearest power pole and my wife CANNOT live without A/C, so thats why the generator.
Oh and I have 6 agm batteries (600AH) under one side of my dinette bench, so no extra trailer.

Yeah, it was a wisecrack. Couldn't pass up the opportunity for a little humor.

[Old___Slow]

quabillion wrote:
Wow yall, this thread is something else :B

Say I'll have some pics to post soon of my eu3000 propane conversion, once I get the kinks worked out that is.

So I ordered the demand regulator from UScarb and got the system plumbed and running. My venturi is from Randys design of the angle cut copper tube cutting board project, but the air cleaner passage is where the tube is mounted without using any cutting board material. The load block is also of Randys design using a tee and nut&bolt.

My problem(s) is that the engine is very hard to start on propane and once running will stall, then die at random times.

I am wondering if my line from the venturi to the reg is too large, I used 3/8 copper and 3/8 i.d. hose to connect to the 3/8 outlet of the regulator. Also a 3/8 load block. The load block is mounted to the regulator and the hose length to the venturi is about 12 inches.

Help:S

Hey ma man Ryan, others.

Good to see a post from you, young old timer. Yeah, I thought about the 'in the breather approach' also. I have removed my LPG retro with the fuel block, so it would be easy to try the 'in the breather' feed.
On the starting issue. Took some time to get my old retro adjucted just right for ease cold starting. I assume you are using the solenoid from USCARB? If you have a separate momentart switch, no problem to prime. Just prime until start. Then adjusting the load block can be a head banger. I used only a 1/4" system. Got it right after some issues were corrected.

On the other part. I think sometimes we (this thread) are just a bunch of old road warriors on a 'best-em fire side chat'. Only the fire is LPG feed, and we worry to get in that last lick before the tank runs out.

Floyd

Thanks again Prof' we love you too:B From to bad boy in the class. Who likes to bedevil the ol' Prof. ~ Oh, my Champion is tried and Proven. Electic start too!

[quabillion]

bill h wrote:
Good Grief! With that solar farm upstairs, why would you need a generator?

Do you tow a battery trailer, too?

Har har har.


I live in the desert about 6 miles from the nearest power pole and my wife CANNOT live without A/C, so thats why the generator. The propane conversion is beacuse carrying all those gas cans is no fun, so I had a 250 gallon propane tank set out here and am trying to get the gen to run correctly on propane.


Oh and I have 6 agm batteries (600AH) under one side of my dinette bench, so no extra trailer.

[bill_h]

Good Grief! With that solar farm upstairs, why would you need a generator?

Do you tow a battery trailer, too?

[quabillion]

Wow yall, this thread is something else :B

Say I'll have some pics to post soon of my eu3000 propane conversion, once I get the kinks worked out that is.

So I ordered the demand regulator from UScarb and got the system plumbed and running. My venturi is from Randys design of the angle cut copper tube cutting board project, but the air cleaner passage is where the tube is mounted without using any cutting board material. The load block is also of Randys design using a tee and nut&bolt.

My problem(s) is that the engine is very hard to start on propane and once running will stall, then die at random times.

I am wondering if my line from the venturi to the reg is too large, I used 3/8 copper and 3/8 i.d. hose to connect to the 3/8 outlet of the regulator. Also a 3/8 load block. The load block is mounted to the regulator and the hose length to the venturi is about 12 inches.

Help:S

[Old___Slow]

Prof,

Thanks:D

Floyd

[professor95]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
~
** PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT **


That's supposed to be an "attention-getter" - I HOPE IT WORKS !!

I respectfully encourage any and all posters and viewers of this thread to visit the forum/thread linked below.

You *WILL* understand when you proceed to Post #15 - where things get nasty! :M

I further encourage you to join the forum (there - it's free) and add your comments - whatever they may be.

Time to step up to the plate and swing for the Center Field Fence!!
(I did)

Go here!

As I indicated - you *will* get the picture in short order (at #15)!

~

My apologies Prof - the devil made me do it.

JC

Thanks, J.C. -- that was more than a surprise -- it was a shock! BTW, who are you over there?

It's like this...... Can't say I have been 100% but I have tried to be nice and have worked to make new posters on this thread feel welcome and comfortable (as have others). Just as I treated my students in class, there is no such thing as a stupid question -- only a stupid answer. You learn something from everyone. But, if you make them feel uncomfortable, they will not stay and you will loose the opportunity to learn from them. I also believe it is wrong to make quick judgments of individuals based upon a name, education or their job. Funny, but I have met Ph.D's that are dumb as a rock, and sixth grade drop-outs that shine like the sun. Believe me, all the titles, letters and abbreviation that I can put before or after my name only add to the size of the business card I carry and indicate I spent some time somewhere. They are not proof of what I can apply to real life situations.

Shucks, look what we have learned from Dr. Austin with his Duropower project! What if we had treated him rudely? Think of what we would have lost. He may think he has learned a lot from us, but it is really the other way around. I am also proud that he is proud and shares his success so freely and fairly.

Look at Floyd (Old and Slow). Sometimes he can be a pain in the ass, but I love him and am also proud of everything he has learned, and taught, from being a part of this thread.

..... and Bill h. He gets smarter every day - honest! He is a real teacher.

The list goes on........ and on....... The guys that are here, and those that come and go, are the greatest and a testament to why this thread is still here.

Over there, you will find some guys that prefer to behave differently. But, fortunately, the good guys out weight the bad, which makes it worthwhile. The truth is I really need the good guys. My knowledge of HDT's is growing, but I still have a tremendous amount to learn about the machines, and that is the place to learn. One guy over there goes by the screen name of PipeFitter (Ken). While at the East Coast HDT rally he took me under his arm and did everything possible (and more) to help me with some issues and questions. He even brought from his own spare parts a new fuel filter and the tools to change mine. I had to make him accept payment for the filter! He is the greatest and you can't imagine how much I honor him.

My Dad was a wise man who did quite well for himself in the military and later with the Department of Energy. One of the many things he taught me was that you cannot argue with stupid (especially if they are arrogant and hold prejudice). Just a statement - absolutely no reference to anyone in particular.🙂

[Old___Slow]

John,

You mentioned the square box muffler. I get the impression the new mufflers from China are quickly changing. Must have something to do with the cat' converter thing? I was amazed when I noticed the new muffler on the gen at Harbor Freight. It was a small round thing looking more like a quart juice can than a muffler. We might hear soon from Prof', if there has been any change in the Champion muffler. Maybe they put the Cat' converter in the big muffler. They might win out on this one. Prof' is to receive his new model Champion today, if I am correct. Then perhaps, we will know all about every feature.

Floyd

[Old___Slow]

Well JC:

Hmmm,

That was a 30 minute trip through the mine fields. Center field? Who's on first?

One question #15 leads to. What kind of fire protection is that I see between the gen muffler and the fuel tank? Carpet maybe? I have used Fire-X on carpet. But, perhaps the material is something different?

John:

Hmmm, again. Glad to hear the muffler wrap was removed. I too had wrapped my muffler at one time. But, had considered rewrapping, now, I do believe the muffler will remain OEM. Thanks for the comment. I am building enclosure number 13? to lower the noise level, progress is slow but fun.

The side panels on your DuroPower are said to lower the dbA 3/5 or more. That's a lot, but you have added additional material. Do your ears tell you the added Hardi material was helpful? When I finish the project at hand, the next effort on the list is to try using 'Soundblock' panels. Metel panels might be the only answer, we'll see. Please give us other findings.

Floyd

[jlaustin]

bill h wrote:
When a microwave or AC is turned on the meter goes up a little, but the exhaust bark gets quite a bit sharper.

Although the various brands of 3000/3500w Chinese gensets are very similar in most aspects, there is one peculiarity of my DuroPower 3500ES LPG/remote-start conversion that is a pleasant peculiarity! The exhaust note is not very "sharp" to start with, but when the 15K BTU A/C's compressor cuts in, the exhaust note seems lower and more pleasant! I "think" it's barely louder (sorry, I don't have a sound meter), but the lower note seems to negate that - in other words - it's just not that much different! As the Prof has pointed out, it's probably our perception of the sound that is the most important.

Although I realize mufflers play a minor role in overall sound contribution (my DuroPower project arose from a question about putting a better muffler on a Generac open-frame generator - a useless exercise!), the DuroPower's muffler is quite different from most of the other Chinese gensets. It is more of a square box rather than an automotive ovoid shape. I also added a 90 degree turn and extended the tailpipe about 8" so it would exit underneath the open-bottom genset, aimed at the ground rather than straight out the side. I wrapped the very short header, muffler, and tailpipe with header wrap. Maybe all of this helps but the exhaust note was similar before modification, just perhaps a bit louder.

My tailpipe extension became too loose the other day, so I had to take the entire exhaust unit out of the muffler enclosure I built so I could get it properly welded. I elected to not put the muffler enclosure back on - the 500 cfm ventilation fan and the 100 cfm pressurized cooling duct on the alternator are so efficient, I'm not that concerned about muffler heat anymore!:C (smilie pun intended!)

Regards,
John

[ol_Bombero-JC]

**Edited/deleted for brevity - the original is re-posted later in its entirety as a quote.

Had to leave the following in and add another edit -

Time to step up to the plate and swing for the Center Field Fence!!

I did . . .(on edit): and the Admin there eventually threw me (and another poster) "OUT" at the plate, LOL!
(Note the sequence of post numbers from #15 onwards)

The Mods/Admin there will allow/ignore lots of politically inspired partisan "nastiness"!
(Even if a poster has lost track of where his head is "firmly implanted"!)
edits closed.

Go here!


JC

[joelchappell]

professor95 wrote:
Joel,

You said you returned the generator to a local Costco? In the Jacksonville area, I assume?

One of two things will happen to that generator. It will either be field destroyed or returned to CPE for repair/refurbishing and resold in Mexico without a Champion label.

I have alerted Paul Cole at CPE of the situation. Hopefully, Paul will be able to get hold of your returned generator for examination. I would like to know what the "deal" is/was with that machine.

You don't by any chance have a record of the serial number, or the address of the Costco where you returned it, do you? This would be helpful in getting that specific generator back to CPE.

Yes the Costco in Jacksonville. Unfortunately no serial no.