3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

Kenper wrote:
Now I am totally confused. I wired my generator exactly as Professor showed in the schematic on page 735. Everything works as it should except that it still won't start the AC when plugged into the 3 pronged socket. It will run the Microwave but every time I turn on the AC it trips the CB. If I plug the 3 prong into the standard 15 amp plug using the big orange 'Doubler' it will trip the CB. Here's the really odd thing, if I plug the Trailer int the Gen by using a 15 amp plug adapter into one of the standard sockets it will bog down some then start and run the AC. Not only that, it will run the AC and the Microwave this way. This makes absolutely no sense since it is the same wires into both sockets as well as into the 3 prong socket.
I've connected the Brown to Red on the output of the CB. White to Black on the other output of the CB. Red/Brown to common. Black/White to hot. Yellow/Green to ground. It seems to be the Black/White side of the CB that is tripping since I can see a flash coming out of it as it trips. Do I need to change to a single 30amp breaker, or maybe 2 20amp ones together just to get it past the copmpressor start up?

Recheck the wiring. Also consider there is always the possibility that the schematic for the wiring I gave you might be different for your particular generator - meaning colors of wires we identified might have changed. Be sure you have completely broken the series point connection so 220 volts is not present.

Bottom line is to separate the two series windings and then parallel them with the same phase relationship. Putting them in parallel with opposite phase relationship will produce zero to 56 volts depending on AVR style used in generator.

The rewire has worked for all I have helped, provided the correct wires are cut/moved and the paralled windings have the same phase relationship (not 180 degrees out of phase). Don't let this "phase" lingo confuse you, no matter what you do you will still have a single phase genny.

[MrWizard]

kenper

even though you parallel the windings, it sounds like the windings are center tapped in the generator head

the fact that it trips the CB with doubler adapter plugged in but does not trip with out the adapter indicates the duplex plug has the center connector tabs broke out and the genny is a center tapped head, still putting out 220.

this was mentioned in the post with the re-wire instructions and meter switch, to check the duplex outlet.

it can be fixed but you will have to open the genny head,

can you take some pictures of the head wiring and the back of the face plate wiring and post them here or on a picture site

[wra]

I did not look up the book page you wired your gen to. If the orange double adapter blows when it is plugged in, it is because you have the generator wired for 220 volts. In order to get the most power to the air conditioner, you need to have the gen wired for 120 volts, and use the orange adapter. This should make the AC work. Good luck.

[Kenper]

Another quirk of this Genny. The voltage switch does not change it from power to the 110 socket to power to the 220 socket as I thought. It just changes which plug it is reading from. Both outlets are hot at the same time. (At least prior to the modifications)
Ps. The writing below the switch actually says 110 - off - 120.

[Kenper]

Now I am totally confused. I wired my generator exactly as Professor showed in the schematic on page 735. Everything works as it should except that it still won't start the AC when plugged into the 3 pronged socket. It will run the Microwave but every time I turn on the AC it trips the CB. If I plug the 3 prong into the standard 15 amp plug using the big orange 'Doubler' it will trip the CB. Here's the really odd thing, if I plug the Trailer int the Gen by using a 15 amp plug adapter into one of the standard sockets it will bog down some then start and run the AC. Not only that, it will run the AC and the Microwave this way. This makes absolutely no sense since it is the same wires into both sockets as well as into the 3 prong socket.
I've connected the Brown to Red on the output of the CB. White to Black on the other output of the CB. Red/Brown to common. Black/White to hot. Yellow/Green to ground. It seems to be the Black/White side of the CB that is tripping since I can see a flash coming out of it as it trips. Do I need to change to a single 30amp breaker, or maybe 2 20amp ones together just to get it past the copmpressor start up?

[lt_eggbeater]

Any idea as to what jets?

[tvman44]

Probably should rejet carb.

lt_eggbeater wrote:
How many running watts can I expect at 6000 feet on a c46540 generator? I am getting about 1900 watts with a variation in hertz of 61 to 58. If I want totaly stable IE 59-60hz I need to back off to about 1400-1500 watts. The generator is maxed out at about 2300 watts but the hertz fall all the way to about 54 at this setting. This is feeding a Trace 4024 off grid inverter up at my mini ranch between snowflake and concho az. So I can set the max amps drawn from the generator on the inverter setings. Currently I have the inverter set to draw a max of 14 amps. Is this normal performance? I would think it would do a bit better than that.
Thanks in advance.

[lt_eggbeater]

How many running watts can I expect at 6000 feet on a c46540 generator? I am getting about 1900 watts with a variation in hertz of 61 to 58. If I want totaly stable IE 59-60hz I need to back off to about 1400-1500 watts. The generator is maxed out at about 2300 watts but the hertz fall all the way to about 54 at this setting. This is feeding a Trace 4024 off grid inverter up at my mini ranch between snowflake and concho az. So I can set the max amps drawn from the generator on the inverter setings. Currently I have the inverter set to draw a max of 14 amps. Is this normal performance? I would think it would do a bit better than that.
Thanks in advance.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Thanks Prof.
I'm sure there were many of the "faithful" here besides me,
who were drawing blood by biting our tongues - holding back from
moving thoughts to keyboards by taking "potshots" at new member "crackshot".

Carry on!

~
JC

[Old___Slow]

Complete redaction. Sorry.

The post was ONLY a question. Guess it's better to engage mind before mouth (k/board) !/?

[Crackshot]

professor95 wrote:

Crackshot wrote:
What's up?
I get the feeling that this is talking down to me and that you are better than the average RV'er or something?

No way. Totally the wrong interpretation.

I see my role to help, not admonish. I have spent over four years stewarding this one thread, giving away hours of my time with the only thing in return knowing that I might have saved someone some real money or even injury. My interest in these machines and the Chinese manufacturing culture has given me considerable experience and knowledge that I feel should be shared. If that offends you, I am sincerely sorry.

I definitely am not "better" than the average RV'er - whatever average may be. I am just me :B

That's cool. Internet just has a way of making it sound brash.:S
Thanks for clearing up the parallel VS series issues.
Do appreciate all the help here!

We are not hatin'. It's all good! :B

[professor95]

dcs1968 wrote:
I have the HF 96898 that is rated at 3000w/3500w peak. I bought this generator last year and I have been able to run the 13.5k a/c unit and the microwave at the same time without any problems.I checked the voltage at an outlet inside the TT and never went under 116V on my Fluke meter. I only did this to see if it could be done. I usually turn the a/c off to use the microwave. This was done by using an adapter plugged into the duplex outlet on the generator. Did the HF generator change in the way they wired their 3000/3500w generators?

The generators sold by HF are built by a large China Manufacturing company trading under the name of Jingdong or simply JD.

JD engines and generators are available with more different product names than I can even begin to list. The models and features of these generators are diverse.

Early JD generators sold in the US were very similar to the one described by Crackshot. Later models included an assortment of additional features including a series parallel selector switch.

If your JD built generator is both 220 volt and 110 volt and DOES NOT include a selector switch for 120 or 240 that kills one of the two voltage outlets when selected it has dual non-parallel windings for 120 VAC operation and can only provide 1/2 of the maximum rated wattage to a single 120 VAC outlet. I put the above in italics because if it has a "meter voltage switch" as the one in the schematic I recently posted with a rewire method, and the switch DOES NOT turn off the 220 volt outlet (check with a meter) when in the 120 VAC position it is only a meter switch and does not parallel coil windings.

It would not be unusual for Harbor Freight to have both new stock and old stock of the same model number generator. This means that yours could be different than the one in the schematic. But, by checking as I described you can verify which one.

George (Mr. Wizard) did a great job in his recent posting of describing the what and how of using a 3,000 watt class Chinese generator with OEM series windings to run a 13.5K to 15K BTU RV A/C. I stress again, it is not a question of “if” but a matter of “when” it will fail.

You will also find within the archives of this thread much information pertaining to the differences in seemingly identical rooftop 13.5K RV air conditioners pertaining to the type of compressor and if the RV manufacturer decided to specify the use of a compressor starting capacitor. Yes, to save money some manufacturers DO NOT have an updated start capacitor as standard equipment.

Apparently Crackshot being new to the thread did not make the connection between my screen name and the fact that I am a veteran teacher with a background in electricity and electronics. It is my responsibility to provide information beneficial to learning that is as correct and accurate as research and experience make possible. I have every reason to believe that what I just wrote fits that classification and encourage you to take heed so as to not possibly harm your generator. If it is indeed a series connected coil system the rewiring needed to make it parallel is amazingly easy and cost effective.

I hope everyone has a great Memorial Day out there camping. We are looking forward to ours and the Chinese genny will be with us and get several hours of use each day recharging the battery banks for nighttime inverter and house use. Our elevation will be such that A/C will not be needed – in fact heat will be more desirable as Virginia’s mountain top temperatures this time of the year can get quite chilly after dark.

.

[Kenper]

I have the HF 96898 that is rated at 3000w/3500w peak. I bought this generator last year and I have been able to run the 13.5k a/c unit and the microwave at the same time without any problems.I checked the voltage at an outlet inside the TT and never went under 116V on my Fluke meter. I only did this to see if it could be done. I usually turn the a/c off to use the microwave. This was done by using an adapter plugged into the duplex outlet on the generator. Did the HF generator change in the way they wired their 3000/3500w generators?


I don't know. I do know that if I turn on my AC it trips the breaker. If I turn on my Microwave it trips the breaker. It won't run either one, much less both together. I have tried this with everything else in the trailer turned off. It will run the AC fan, but you can hear it bog down a little, but as soon as the compresser kicks in it trips the breaker.

[dcs1968]

Kenper wrote:
Hi, Im a Newbie here.
Apparently I fell into the trap of buying a split phase generator from Harbor Freight. I didn't even know there was a difference between parallel and split until I tried to run my AC. No Luck. Is there a way to rewire this generator to get full power out of the 120 outlets or from the 240? I don't know how to get it into picture format but the Wiring Diagram is on page 30 of this PDF. http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals/98000-98999/98706.pdf
Thanks for any help.
Ken

I have the HF 96898 that is rated at 3000w/3500w peak. I bought this generator last year and I have been able to run the 13.5k a/c unit and the microwave at the same time without any problems.I checked the voltage at an outlet inside the TT and never went under 116V on my Fluke meter. I only did this to see if it could be done. I usually turn the a/c off to use the microwave. This was done by using an adapter plugged into the duplex outlet on the generator. Did the HF generator change in the way they wired their 3000/3500w generators?

[professor95]

Crackshot wrote:
What's up?
I get the feeling that this is talking down to me and that you are better than the average RV'er or something?

No way. Totally the wrong interpretation.

I see my role to help, not admonish. I have spent over four years stewarding this one thread, giving away hours of my time with the only thing in return knowing that I might have saved someone some real money or even injury. My interest in these machines and the Chinese manufacturing culture has given me considerable experience and knowledge that I feel should be shared. If that offends you, I am sincerely sorry.

I definitely am not "better" than the average RV'er - whatever average may be. I am just me :B