3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[rwjejits]

"Also note the compression release function - you may have a problem there with your engine."

Well adjusted both valves today per instructions on CPE's website. I guess this is no surprise but I am back to my original problem (high compression when pull starting).

Now I am afraid that Professor may be right (problem with compression release function). I haven't been able to find much info on their website (or via Google) other than this feature exists on the GX200 engines. Also since it appears to be triggered by the CAM, I am assuming that the engine must be torn apart to get to.

Has anyone ever had to adjust / replace this doo-hicky? I'm not afraid to tear into things, but have no clue what to be looking for...or even if it can be replaced or adjusted.

Thanks!

[SonicLogic]

rwjejits wrote:
Well did some more searching and found link to the Champion TSB on valve adjustment. Gonna give it a try..just hope specs(gauge spacing between rocker arm / valve stem) for the Champion unit are close to what the Powerwise units should be set at for both intake & exhaust.

The engine on your PowerWise is a JF200 (made by Jiangdong). The procedure for setting the valves is the same as for the Champion engines. The Champion manual gives the specs. in inches and here are the same specs. in mm:

Intake Valve: 0.15 +/- 0.02 mm (cold)
Exhaust Valve: 0.20 +/- 0.02 mm (cold)

The specs. on the two engines are the same. As the prof. said, they're both Honda GX200 clones.

[rwjejits]

professor95 wrote:

rwjejits wrote:

Any tips on getting these set right? Thanks again and sorry for long post...

Yes. Go here.

Your engine is very similar to the Champion engine thus the directions and measurements should work fine.

Also note the compression release function - you may have a problem there with your engine.

You can view all of CPE's technical bulletins here or copy and paste this URL into your browser http://www.cpeauto.com/techbulletin.php

Virtually all of these little GX200 style engines are Honda clones. There are some minor differences but not major enough that you cannot use CPE's tech bulletins to service your engine.

Thanks Professor. Going to give it a try tomorrow!

[professor95]

rwjejits wrote:

Any tips on getting these set right? Thanks again and sorry for long post...

Yes. Go here.

Your engine is very similar to the Champion engine thus the directions and measurements should work fine.

Also note the compression release function - you may have a problem there with your engine.

You can view all of CPE's technical bulletins here or copy and paste this URL into your browser http://www.cpeauto.com/techbulletin.php

Virtually all of these little GX200 style engines are Honda clones. There are some minor differences but not major enough that you cannot use CPE's tech bulletins to service your engine.

[rwjejits]

Well did some more searching and found link to the Champion TSB on valve adjustment. Gonna give it a try..just hope specs(gauge spacing between rocker arm / valve stem) for the Champion unit are close to what the Powerwise units should be set at for both intake & exhaust.

[rwjejits]

Hello - been following this thread off and on for some time...lots of great info. I have a Powerwise 3500 and it developed a problem not too long ago (while in use following hurricane Ike). Basically the unit was hard to start (high compression in cylinder). I could remove the spark plug and it would spin just fine..screw it back in and shaft would not spin over 1/4 to 1/2 rotation. Actually busted the pull start mechanism when it locked up on me when attempting to start. My initial diagnosis was that I had a stuck valve.

I pulled the head off and inspected everything...a little carboned up but otherwise all appeared to be fine...valves freely moved, pushrods true, seat springs (I think that is what you call them) not broke, etc..

I put it all back together and the unit will not start (fuel and spark are confirmed). I think my problem is that I don't have the valves/rocker arms adjusted right (truthfully I didn't pay that much attention to how much thread was showing above the keeper nut before I pulled them off during disassembly). Those that have pulled the valve cover know what I am talking about.

While adjusting the rocker arm tension nuts numerous time (tapered one that touches rocker arm) I actually got it to fire up and run strong for `20seconds...but it eventually quit because the main nut loosened up and put things out of adjustment (I didn't have the keeper nut on top).

There must be a very small margin of error for where both need to be set at (sweet spot). I tried numerous turns in/out on both but can't get there again.

Is there a post in this thread that might give some tips on how to adjust these valves? I really think that this is what is keeping it from firing up.

After what I've learned from pulling the head off and seeing how this thing operates, I beleive my original problem (hard/impossible to spin shaft with pull starter) was caused by one or both valves being out of adjustment). I can actually re-create the problem by backing way off on the rocker arm tension nut.

Any tips on getting these set right? Thanks again and sorry for long post...

[_nawlins]

Nice job! Let us know if you decide to set up for propane use and any differences in temps. The stumbling you mentioned was from boiling off the fuel?

http://www.affordablegokarts.com/curved-manifold.php This site shows ways to move your carburetor to cooler areas FWIW.

bobandcat wrote:
During the first test, the generator ran for 30 minutes at 2600 watts before it started to stumble. The load was immediately and arbitrarily reduced to 1600 watts by turning off the leaf blower and leaving the air compressor load running. The test continued for another 30 minutes without any further problems with the maximum temperatures dropping and stabilizing. At 1600 watts, the air temp above the engine stabilized at 160 degrees, above the genhead at 140 degrees and enclosure exit air at 150 degrees. Test time was 60 minutes under load, 15 minutes running with cooling fans load (110watts) and 15 minutes with the engine off and cooling fans running. Enclosure cooling was extremely effective after the engine was stopped and the cooling fans continued running..

[_nawlins]

The B&S gensets had the twist lock 4 plug adapters you referred too and some of the newer ones use a cute molded dog bone adapter for the duplex outlets.

As Mr. Wizard pointed out, they split the load over the in series coils, two plugs per side.

I have the twist lock cord set. Due to this excellent thread, I have my Pramac geny in parallel 115vac mode as I don't need the 220vac. Each set of plugs has its own 15 amp breaker as before. (or 30amp using my custom twist lock to RV adapter)

showpare wrote:
Charging a 12 volt Battery and making an output power cord:

I have a Champion C46540 for back-up power. I did a search for this question but didn't get much. It has a 10A 12VDC output with the alligator clips to charge batteries. The users manual mentions to not charge deep cycle batteries. What is the difference?

Is there a way to make a 240 VAC twist-lock female into 4 120 VAC power cord, at home? I’ve seen (or think I’ve seen) these with higher priced home-type generators and on the Internet for about $100.

[tvman44]

MrWizard wrote:
that would be correct, and put the gnerator in 220 mode,

the only problem is balancing the load, since each duplex will be on (1) winding, you cannot have more than 14.5 amps on either duplex, or you will trip the breaker on that winding

i would prefer to buy some 10 gauge 3 wire ( instead of 12 ga 4 wire ) and make one cord using the RV 30 amp receptacle and put your 4 sq and (2) duplexes, at the end of the 10 ga run, the total load ( what ever it is ) will be on both windings paralleled for 120, with no imbalance worries.

but thats just me

I agree with Mr. Wizard, if you only want 120 that is the way to go.

[MrWizard]

that would be correct, and put the gnerator in 220 mode,

the only problem is balancing the load, since each duplex will be on (1) winding, you cannot have more than 14.5 amps on either duplex, or you will trip the breaker on that winding

i would prefer to buy some 10 gauge 3 wire ( instead of 12 ga 4 wire ) and make one cord using the RV 30 amp receptacle and put your 4 sq and (2) duplexes, at the end of the 10 ga run, the total load ( what ever it is ) will be on both windings paralleled for 120, with no imbalance worries.

but thats just me

[showpare]

Mr. Wizard--Thanks for the battery charging info!

This generator has a single 120v outlet, a single 120/240v twist lock and the 30 amp RV receptacle. I was wondering about the 240v twist lock; maybe doing the "(2) circuit 4 way box with (2) duplex outlets connected by a 4 conductor cable (red,blk,wht & ground?". Help me on this: red to the hot side of a duplex and black to the hot side of the other duplex, white for neutral. Ground the receptacles with the green? Am I close? Or close to electrocution?

MrWizard wrote:

showpare wrote:
Charging a 12 volt Battery and making an output power cord:

I have a Champion C46540 for back-up power. I did a search for this question but didn't get much. It has a 10A 12VDC output with the alligator clips to charge batteries. The users manual mentions to not charge deep cycle batteries. What is the difference?

Is there a way to make a 240 VAC twist-lock female into 4 120 VAC power cord, at home? I’ve seen (or think I’ve seen) these with higher priced home-type generators and on the Internet for about $100.

at 10 amps max charge, it won't make any difference if the batteries involved are deep cycle or regular starter batteries

what do you mean by (4) 120 VAC power ? do you mean a (2) circuit 4 way box with (2) duplex outlets connected by a 4 conductor cable (red,blk,wht & ground) ?

I think you will get better power use and regulation using a dogbone plugged into the full power duplex outlet

[MrWizard]

showpare wrote:
Charging a 12 volt Battery and making an output power cord:

I have a Champion C46540 for back-up power. I did a search for this question but didn't get much. It has a 10A 12VDC output with the alligator clips to charge batteries. The users manual mentions to not charge deep cycle batteries. What is the difference?

Is there a way to make a 240 VAC twist-lock female into 4 120 VAC power cord, at home? I’ve seen (or think I’ve seen) these with higher priced home-type generators and on the Internet for about $100.

at 10 amps max charge, it won't make any difference if the batteries involved are deep cycle or regular starter batteries

what do you mean by (4) 120 VAC power ? do you mean a (2) circuit 4 way box with (2) duplex outlets connected by a 4 conductor cable (red,blk,wht & ground) ?

I think you will get better power use and regulation using a dogbone plugged into the full power duplex outlet

[blkfe]

Bobandcat,
Great job. I measure my genhead temp by sampleing the air temp exhausted by
the genhead fan....Hmmmmm......
Maybe I'm approaching this all wrong.
The glass door thing is a cool idea though....
Brad

[showpare]

Charging a 12 volt Battery and making an output power cord:

I have a Champion C46540 for back-up power. I did a search for this question but didn't get much. It has a 10A 12VDC output with the alligator clips to charge batteries. The users manual mentions to not charge deep cycle batteries. What is the difference?

Is there a way to make a 240 VAC twist-lock female into 4 120 VAC power cord, at home? I’ve seen (or think I’ve seen) these with higher priced home-type generators and on the Internet for about $100.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

MrWizard wrote:
here you go, click link

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?whse=BC&topnav=&prodid=11217701&ec=BC-EC877-CatHome&pos=15...

3800 watts of power from an inverter genset, nice, but i don't think it will fit in my RV genny compartment

Hmmmmmm - $1K discount (that's a biggie!)- almost wonder why.
The $1300. price gets it "close" to various Yam & Honda models
- with proven reliability & service.

But then . . .$1300. = 3 or 4 Champs
or 1 with $$$ to spare - also with proven reliability & service.

~