3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

Mr Wizard wrote:
my grandmother was born in Tenn, moved via wagon to Mo in as a child with her parents in the 1870's, died in may 1966 in her 90's, i was born in rural Mo, in 1947, in the town next door, to the one where she lived most of her life.

but i grew up traveling around the country side, because my father drove big rigs for a construction company and we moved with every job

i might not have the farmers tan on the back of my neck, but i know where my heritage comes from

and yes i've heard a lot of jokes about the 'show me' state and missouri mules

While not 3,000 watt Chinese genny info, background such as this makes the contributions from the "long timers" seem more relevant.

My upbringing was somewhat different and unique. I was a child of the Atomic City (aka - Oak Ridge, TN) built to enrich uranium U-235 into the fuel for the first Atomic Bomb. My dad was in the middle of the mix and has as his claim to fame the design of Katie's Kitchen, the secret facility where the enriched U-235 was stored. My childhood, and eventually my life as an adult, were ultimately influenced by the unique community I grew up in. I have no earthly idea as to how much radiation I was exposed to as a child through my father's clothing, but I do remember playing in a mercury laden creek on most summer afternoons (did not know it then). I still jokingly talk about how my skin gives off an irradiant glow at night. Thus, my claim to "redneck" status may have merit far beyond that of sunburned, leathery skin. Incidentally, I will set off most security gates designed to detect metal - even when I have nothing on my person that is metal.

[racefan1965]

Thank you Mr. Wizard. I forgot about the circuit breakers. That makes sense. My old trailer only has 3 circuit breakers and I know one shuts down the AC and one shuts down the electric going to the outlets. Not sure what the 3rd shuts down. I'm assuming since one could use the CB's to cut off a load to the genny that the 3rd must shut off the converter. Either that or the load from the converter is so small it's not considered a load and not a bother to the genset AVR.

Magic...the genset I'm talking about is the champion or other portables with remote start/stop. Most who use these don't have ATS's installed. I don't know if one is required to be installed to use the remote start/stop either.

Hey floyd, I'm not worried about AVR failure now any more than I was last year. IMO it's something that might fail but then I could break a lifter or even blow up the engine too. All are about even in possibilities IMO. The profs post made me try to understand why a person would want a remote start/stop retrofit kit if they increase the chance of the AVR failing? Like in your case floyd. Why would you put up such a fuss about the AVR's possibly failing then ask for a device (start/stop kit) that could increase that AVR's failure? I couldn't see a way to remove the load as I had forgotten about the CB's. MRWizzard answered my question.

With the answers I received I can see how to shut off the major load to the genset now. I am assuming that either a CB cuts off the converter from the shore/genset cord or the converters load is so small that it has no effect on the AVR of the genset. Am I understanding things correctly here?

[Old___Slow]

Y Racefan,

Maybe AKA, Mr. Flintstone or Candle Man. Yes, we are creatures of progress and gadgets. A genny? when the camp fire will do it all. Heat for the cookin' and light for the seein' Now, I must say you are one of my fave five. But, Rick ma man, You were all concerned when someone was worried about AVR failure and lash slap. Now you are concerned 'bout de AVR failure? Well, I'm not to proud to say, I love ya guy. You gave me something to do with the ol' keyboard today. Mr Wizard, another in my fave five, gave the answer I would expect from the Wiz. I flew to Alaska several years ago and rented a MH for several weeks. The instructions were to start the generator (remote control) with all load turned off, let it warm up for 5 minutes, then turn on needed items. When finished with needed items, turn them off and let the Generator cool for 5 minutes and shut off. Long years ago several MH's were owned with Gensets so this was old info'~ So yes, I for one, would like to upgrade my Champion. Will I get her done?, don't know. So Rick, stay on board and let's see how this thing plays out. This is all better than TV:B

Floyd

[blkfe]

In my opinion the load should be remove before starting or starting an AVR controlled generator. The install on my thread included a diagram which does just that. I would not be surprised to see someone come out with a remote start kit that removes the load at shut down as well. Not sure it's necessarily needed at start up as our major loads (AC, microwave, ect)are not turned on when we start the generator.
Brad

[magic43]

racefan1965, one of the reasons many RV builders install a ATS (automatic transfer switch) with built in gennys is to prevent the genny from being started under load. Also, you have to be very careful and not let the fuel tank to get down to 1/4 with the genny under load because it will "run out of gas" and die under load.

Yes, when the voltage goes down the current draw goes up. This causes the AVR to try to fix things. It can't and can cause AVR failure.

It may be a pain, but the load should be removed before starting or killing a genny.

Some of our "bells and whistles" like remote start don't take this in consideration. After all, they are selling products...not fixing gennys.

[MrWizard]

racefan, major loads, like AC or an electric heater, but, the easy way is walk over to your CB panel and turn off the breakers

hit the button, give (2) minutes, and then turn the breakers on, don't have to go out side, same for turning it off, turn off breakers, turn off genny, leave breakers OFF until you re-start the genny

anyway, thats the way I would do it.

[racefan1965]

professor95 wrote:
These are some thoughts on the care and feeding of your Chinese built 3,000 watt genny.

When you are ready to shut down your genny, be sure to turn off or disconnect all significant loads before hitting the kill switch.

Many years ago, a guy named Ohm proved that as voltage drops to a specific load that current will rise. If, for example, you have your 13,500 BTU air conditioner running full throttle and turn off the generator, the voltage will drop as the engine comes to a coasting stop. During that interval, the current demand from the A/C will rise dramatically, putting an excessive load on the generator. This load is not good for the AVR or other components.

The best way to shut down the genny is to remove all loads first, let the genny run a few minutes unloaded to circulate air across the genny power head and then to hit the kill switch. Developing such habits will help your equipment to live another day.

I hope you have a great RV Memorial Day weekend - even at $4 a gallon for fuel. A bad day campin' is better than a good day working!

Just trying to understand things here and have gotten confused on a thing or two.
Won't a remote start kit make it impossible to stop or start a genny without a load? Doesn't this go against what is recommended? The only option to avoid starting the genset without a load is to pull the plug, start the genset and allow it to warm up then reinsert the plug. This makes the remote start a bad idea doesn't it?
I really don't understand things here. Some on here are worried about AVR failures yet ask for a option (remote electric start) that puts such a demand on the AVR that it makes its failure more of a possibility. Isn't this what we call a oxymoron? Am I missing something? Is there a way to use a remote electric start on a genset and not have to stop and start the genset with a load on it? Especially a genset that has to be retrofitted to remote electric start/stop to begin with?

Rick

[Old___Slow]

Following through on their website (PARMAC), seems to be the inverters are the offerings they present to the small portable market. I am NOT the noise police, however, their units are showing 58 dBA and I'll bet the company store the price range will be $2000 up. That still leaves good ol' Champion the number one winner in the low cost market. I'll also bet the sales price of the C46540 scares the competitors to the core. Someone got a Champ for $64? That number rings a bell? The question is, can CPE survive? Don't we all love a 'price war'~


And we are going to be able to convert our C46540's to ELECTRIC START and radio REMOTE CONTROL. The rest of the story I've half way promised to be 'SILENT' :W

[SonicLogic]

PRAMAC has recently acquired most of the assets of the bankrupt Powermate company. It will be interesting to see if they use this purchase as an avenue to enter the low cost generator market in the USA.

Their current line of small portable generators are rather expensive and they do not compete in the low end market. This new acquisition of Powermate could be the starting point for them to go high volume with a low price.

Time will tell.

[MrWizard]

my grandmother was born in Tenn, moved via wagon to Mo in as a child with her parents in the 1870's, died in may 1966 in her 90's, i was born in rural Mo, in 1947, in the town next door, to the one where she lived most of her life.

but i grew up traveling around the country side, because my father drove big rigs for a construction company and we moved with every job

i might not have the farmers tan on the back of my neck, but i know where my heritage comes from

and yes i've heard a lot of jokes about the 'show me' state and missouri mules

[blkfe]

awl I know is I R 1,
Brad

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Should have called it
"Redneck Champions", LOL!

[ol_Bombero-JC]

WaltinColo wrote:
The rest...
of the story...
RedNeck

Walt - Wikipedia basically "done good' - but they left out a lot.
so did the Prof!

"RedNeck" history. (and USA History!) Sorry for off-topic.

1638-1641 - Scottish Presbyterians would not accept the Church of England as the official state church. "Many Covenanters signed (the Nat'l Covenant docs) in their own blood and wore pieces of cloth around their necks as distinctive insignia; hence the term 'Red Neck', which became slang for a Scottish dissenter". Ref: Scottish historyonline.co.uk

Lots of the above fled to Northern Ireland.
Potato famine - Irish emigrate to the US, one can assume some
-or a lot of 'em- became miners.

Massacres - and the UMWA members with red bandanas,
"Rednecks or Red Necks" - and the national attention from same
(Keeping in mind . . . miners aren't going to get sunburned!)

April 20, 1914 Ludlow, Colorado (pay attn Walt!).
Ludlow Massacre - battle bet Nat'l Guardsmen & miners resulting in 19 dead - inc'l 13 women and children hiding in tents.
(From State of Colorado House Joint Resolution concerning the 90th anniversary of "one of the bloodiest assaults on organized labor in American History" - narrative here, picks up at about the 14th Wheras")

Note the immigrant Greek "Redneck".

"Wheras, UMW strike-leader John Lawson placed Greek miner Louis Tikias in charge of the large tent camp near Ludlow and suggested that all strikers wear a red bandana around their necks, as the Greek miners already wore, saying, 'We will demonstrate to those thugs and murderers that every one of us is as fearsome as our Greek brothers are. Now the bandana becomes our proud uniform, and everyone of us
IS A REDNECK"

May 19, 1920 The Matewan (WV) Massacre - without quoting a
long story that made National Headlines, quoted from SDSU,
including term in parenthesis -
"Ten to twenty thousand miners, all wearing red bandanas (hence the term 'redneck'), marched through Southern West Virginia."

Also regarding the above - quoted from "The Don Chafin Era", by Russel Fogelsong. (Chafin was the Logan Co., WVA head-busting sheriff, and on the mine owner's payroll).

"The miners all wore red handkerchiefs around their necks, thus giving rise to the term RED NECK being applied to any union sympathizer".

From same era - "The West Virginia Coal Mine Wars" -
" . . . .thousands of miners gathered . . . . to distinguish themselves from people uninvolved, they wore red kerchiefs around their necks, perhaps providing the origin of the word 'REDNECK'."

WVA State Archives and various books -
The "Battle of Blair Mountain" involved WWI heroes including Gen. Billy Mitchell and his 'air force' as part of Federal Troops sent by Pres. Harding.

Note: A US President sent a famous US General, complete with aircraft and troops - to quash the mine unrest created by . . .
the "Rednecks".
One has to remember the owners had the money & power (= clout).
Depending on what paper you read, it was a heroic cause by the Rednecks - - or a "militant uprising".

This made National Headlines for a long, long time! ALL of the USA knew who the "Rednecks" were! Coverage in ALL the major US Newspapers including the NY Times.

Bottom line was, essentially the miners lost -
and like Lamont (Old and Slow) says, they were the poorest of the poor and *DID* owe their soul to the Company Store.
Many were lucky to be alive, but had nothing.
They had to seek other employment -whatever they could find- elsewhere.

OK, lowest economic level. No more work in the mines!
So, mainly went to work in/on the farms and fields for
employers & sharecroppers who were often barely a notch above them
on the social and economic ladder.
"Yep, hired a couple of Rednecks today" . . . .

Now you have "Rednecks" getting farmer tans!

How poor?
Last but not least, to quote a Matewan Massacre miner's decendent, whose relatives lived in Matewan, pop. 600 (as described in the History of that event) quote:
"If you have grown up in American culture, you know who 'Applachians' are. They are funny-looking, ignorant, poor and often violent. In this context, it is understandable that being from this region is not something one would want to advertise. My parents were called names wherever they went - hillbilly, white ni****, white trash. My mother slept with a dictonary under her bed so she could learn not to talk 'funny'."

Oh yeah - he says his Grandmother chewed tobacco!
Now, that's a -REAL REDNECK- grandma!!

Anybody that would like links to the articles, sources, books, etc.,
P/M me with an e-mail address.
Now - back to the regularly scheduled programming on this channel,
after a glitch or two, LOL!

JC
(PS: no axe to grind - born in CA. Previous Kin from IL.
In summary, guess there's Redneck jokes -and- Redneck heroes)

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
Many years ago, a guy named Ohm proved that as voltage drops to a specific load that current will rise.

Gee, I learned in school that Ohms Law states the current is proportional to the voltage. 🙂 What you say is true about a motor load, though, because that is not a resistive load.

Even with a resistive load, it is still a good idea to turn off the load and let the gen run for a few minutes so that it cools off internally. Once the engine is off, there is no more airflow through either the engine or the genhead, and everything internal will heat-soak to a higher temperature.

Bob R.

[professor95]

These are some thoughts on the care and feeding of your Chinese built 3,000 watt genny.

When you are ready to shut down your genny, be sure to turn off or disconnect all significant loads before hitting the kill switch.

Many years ago, a guy named Ohm proved that as voltage drops to a specific load that current will rise. If, for example, you have your 13,500 BTU air conditioner running full throttle and turn off the generator, the voltage will drop as the engine comes to a coasting stop. During that interval, the current demand from the A/C will rise dramatically, putting an excessive load on the generator. This load is not good for the AVR or other components.

The best way to shut down the genny is to remove all loads first, let the genny run a few minutes unloaded to circulate air across the genny power head and then to hit the kill switch. Developing such habits will help your equipment to live another day.

I hope you have a great RV Memorial Day weekend - even at $4 a gallon for fuel. A bad day campin' is better than a good day working!