3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

Racefan1965 wrote:
I'm pretty sure champion listens to what we have to say. They added the RV plug to their gensets after listening to what we had to say after all. Personally I'm lost on why you keep trying to get champion to build you this electric start genset when you already have one from duro power? Seems to me your just trying to get your digs in on champion and why still confuses me.

Rick

You are right, Rick. This forum was responsible for Champion's decision to provide the RV outlet and the ability to route full wattage to that single outlet. The inclusion of this small item was considered to be a "running model change" and was readily accepted by the retailers since it did not increase the unit cost.

While I know it is not your personal issue, I also feel that it is pertinent to point out to other members that Champion does currently build an electric start model, but UltraFab is the only known dealer that has elected to distribute it at retail. Other retailers have the option to carry the electric start but have not elected to go that route. The major issue seems to be the suggested retail price of the 40008 or 3500E from UltraFab as compared to the volume discounters such as CSK/Parts America.

As I have shared in previous postings, it does no harm to ask an RV dealership that has affiliation with Ultra Fab if they will give you a better price. I have a favorite RV dealer who I have purchased my last 3 RV's from. I also go to them for parts and service. Thus, they consider me a "good" customer and want to keep me happy. When I asked about a discount on a 40008, they were only too glad to oblige. I doubt that many, if any, folks on this forum pay full retail for a new RV, so why accept full retail for a generator? If you are buying a new RV, use it as an opportunity to leverage a better price on some desired accesories.

BTW, are you coming to Richmond for the May race? Is anyone who frequents the 3000W Chinese genny forum planning on attending the race? Might be a good time to try and arrange an eye ball-to-eye ball meeting at a local restaurant!

[Old___Slow]

Rick,

Please don't forget I'm one of the Champion C.C's one lonely voice. Like a voice in the wilderness. I own a C46540 with proper add on's it could be ready to replace the other Chinese genny in my MH. in case of failure. You know, like a ready made back-up, it has Electric start and soon a remote, I hope. Guess I could perhaps, if still working, transfer the Electric Start for one genny to another. 'No digs here', just looking for more happy campin' days with my two Chinese gennys, DW and Buddy Boy.

Floyd


I'm going camping over at Inks Lake State Park and will have my ears to the ground for the announcement of good things to come from Champion.

[racefan1965]

Old & Slow wrote:
Well folks, if the higher ups and bean counters in Champion don't want to hear what some of us would like to have in a genny, guess we will have to go it alone. So hear is one option for those's who have a desire for progress past the Model T. Try to silence the 'great value' we have found in the Champion C46540, add Electric Start and this... I don't want to be the genny pig. Someone could order a remote start unit from US Carb. Then someone could give us the answer for the need of a electro choke and we would be in business. $300 for the C46540 and maybe $200 for extras and we would have our $500 genny to go up against the Onan P3200ie for $2000. Or maybe the bleu one? Sounds like a real deal.

I'm pretty sure champion listens to what we have to say. They added the RV plug to their gensets after listening to what we had to say after all. Personally I'm lost on why you keep trying to get champion to build you this electric start genset when you already have one from duro power? Seems to me your just trying to get your digs in on champion and why still confuses me.

Rick

[Old___Slow]

Well folks, if the higher ups and bean counters in Champion don't want to hear what some of us would like to have in a genny, guess we will have to go it alone. So hear is one option for those's who have a desire for progress past the Model T. Try to silence the 'great value' we have found in the Champion C46540, add Electric Start and this... I don't want to be the genny pig. Someone could order a remote start unit from US Carb. Then someone could give us the answer for the need of a electro choke and we would be in business. $300 for the C46540 and maybe $200 for extras and we would have our $500 genny to go up against the Onan P3200ie for $2000. Or maybe the bleu one? Sounds like a real deal.

[WaltinColo]

I'm not sure how I deserve the title "Good Will Ambassador" for Champion any more than I would for ELIM or Kawasaki.

But, to suggest that Mr. Cole can dictate what the CEO and board that make up the company build and how they market their product is analogous to saying that the service manager of a large GM dealership can direct what the 2009 model trucks will look like or their new features.

Keep up the good work Prof!
Snicker... 🙂

[Old___Slow]

Prof95,

All the above is well said and will be taken to heart. I had to lol when I read "bed rails" above. You are right in there with "re-purpose" talent and cost saving. And the box is beautiful. That's having the 'hat and the cattle' From Texas, Floyd - O&S

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
See Professor95's design on this thread. His design requires a special frame made from bed rails if your really good with welding

While it is true that I elected to re-purpose some surplus bed rails rather than buy pieces of 1-1/4" x 1/8" angle iron to build a new frame, bed rails are not a key ingredient of the design.

Since I was moving the fuel tank and muffler off of the frame, making a new frame helped to reduce the overall size and allow for easy attachment of the 2" panels. It also allowed my enclosure to fit the carrier I had previously built on the back of my camper. If one wanted to follow the basics of the design, which emphasize efficient airflow, by using the OEM tubular frame, the completed project should work just as well as "bed rails".

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
Professor95:

Got yet another question. In your present position of 'Good Will Ambassador' for CPE (Champion) maybe you can tell us why these fine folks with this company are not hearing our oft stated needs. One being, we need a 3000/4000w genny with Electric Start and Remote Control and a lower noise factor. Or, are we going to forced to look else where to the completion to meet our needs. One recent poster had to pass up the sale priced C46540 and go order a (?) to meet his need and requirement. Champion owing their MFG plant in China should give them a leg up in meeting our crying needs. Or maybe they just continue to sell with good ol American "let's make a profit" 'now' thing. Please, as a Good Will Ambassador, bring our needs forward. No lot'sa hat, no cattle....I live in TEXAS

Floyd

Floyd,

I'm not sure how I deserve the title "Good Will Ambassador" for Champion any more than I would for ELIM or Kawasaki. My persistence in wanting to learn about these little Chinese gennys, who makes what, what fits what and how to make them more accommodating for our particular use has brought me into more frequent contact with companies who wish to respond than those who do not.

As to why CPE has not responded to your interest in such a product is not for me to say. I do strongly suspect that the majority of buyers are more inclined to want a generator that is durable, inexpensive and simple to operate than one that is full featured and thus more expensive.

I believe most of the long timers on this thread are aware that I do occasionally communicate with the Senior Service Tech at CPE and that he is responsive to many of my questions. But, to suggest that Mr. Cole can dictate what the CEO and board that make up the company build and how they market their product is analogous to saying that the service manager of a large GM dealership can direct what the 2009 model trucks will look like or their new features.

My advice is to push the various retailers who spec the products they buy from CPE to include the features you desire. If the retailers (Tractor Supply, CSK/Parts America, Home Depot, Cabelas, etc.) see an opportunity to increase sales of generators with these features, you can bet they will order truckloads of such a product.

[Old___Slow]

Professor95:

Got yet another question. In your present position of 'Good Will Ambassador' for CPE (Champion) maybe you can tell us why these fine folks with this company are not hearing our oft stated needs. One being, we need a 3000/4000w genny with Electric Start and Remote Control and a lower noise factor. Or, are we going to forced to look else where to the completion to meet our needs. One recent poster had to pass up the sale priced C46540 and go order a (?) to meet his need and requirement. Champion owing their MFG plant in China should give them a leg up in meeting our crying needs. Or maybe they just continue to sell with good ol American "let's make a profit" 'now' thing. Please, as a Good Will Ambassador, bring our needs forward. No lot'sa hat, no cattle....I live in TEXAS

Floyd

[Old___Slow]

Claybe wrote:
Can anyone direct me to the page/link to Professor's design for a sound enclosure? I just purchased a Champion 4000W genny and would like to quiet it down. Thanks!

Go back to Page 222........Date 10-08-07

[Claybe]

Can anyone direct me to the page/link to Professor's design for a sound enclosure? I just purchased a Champion 4000W genny and would like to quiet it down. Thanks!

[Old___Slow]

Tvman,


Professor95, has designed and developed a enclosure for a 3000w genny giving a much lower dBA than my design for a stock frame. I do have one box not in use with other material, I hope will go as low as 50 dBA. by using 3 1/2" panels. Might be pipe dream, however. Old and Slow.

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
See Professor95's design on this thread. His design requires a special frame made from bed rails if your really good with welding. His enclosure has a Copy Right, however, I do believe

No, the enclosure does not contain a copyright, that would require a patent. The details of the enclosure are there for anyone to use - which is why I posted them.

The written article detailing the design and construction of the enclosure does contain a copyright statement. This simply means one should not take my words and reproduce them as their own.

[bobandcat]

limerick001 wrote:
Ever fear being without a back up source of power, in an emergency OR
having convenience for camping???



Generator for $299.00 plus tax, not a bad deal in itself...

http://www.partsamerica.com/productdetail.aspx?MfrCode=CPE&MfrPartNumber=C46540&CategoryCode=3483C&SID=sduidp0t769413



A 15% discount coupon, with a little chicanery and a very small purchase (returnable later) , a 25% discount !
(read the posts)

http://www.fatwallet.com/t/18/695710

$150.00 Rebate
http://cskautoinc.rebatestatus.com/displaypdf.aspx?GFmCPCipleQGLQ6KLP3ff/qlBF4b/ps0fK0iLbBpjg8=



Good Grief! Can you say a NET cost of $91.63 ??? (after purchase, san diego tax of 7.75 percent, and
rebate)

If I didn't have my 7000 watt electric start beast, I'd bag a spare for emergencies!

Act fast, the deal runs out on March 29...

Ron

Be advised.

I received an e-mail from partsamerica/Checker that they would not honor the rebate if the customer had received MULTIPLE DISCOUNTS on the Champion at the store. One was OK (re: 25% customer survey discount). Doing the price match and the 25% discount coupon would void the $150 rebate per their e-mail.

Good luck if you try. Hope it works for you.

Here is their actual response:

Dear Madam or Sir,

Thank you for visiting PartsAmerica.com and taking the time to contact us.

Yes, however, only one coupon can be used in conjunction with the rebate. If 2 or more discount offers were made on the same transaction, the rebate is null & void.

If you have any further questions please contact us via e-mail or toll free at 877.808.0698. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Bryan
Partsamerica.com
AskTheExperts
877-808-0698
CSK Technical Assistance
800-422-7727

[Old___Slow]

tvman44,

The design I'm using is being perfected. It's built around a stock frame. Panels are made with 1/2" mdf board, 1" x 2" framing, 2 layers 1/2" carpet pad and covered with carpet. National Fireproofing, Inc Spray was used. A 1150 cfm 12v/80w fan from Procomp is used. The design for airflow can be found on another thread. The frame standards were cut just below the fuel tank, 1/2" pipe was inserted raising the f/tank 7" making room for my design. This design is a combo of ideas from different posters.


See Professor95's design on this thread. His design requires a special frame made from bed rails if your really good with welding. His enclosure has a Copy Right, however, I do believe.