3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[ol_Bombero-JC]

~

[pitstop]

From a former lurker, but not a newbie camper..I bought a clean 94 Terry last week and wanted to get a generator. After reviewing all the info, I went with the Champion C46540. UPS delivered to my house this afternoon and just opened the box.

This is my first generator so is there anything I should look for or do in breaking in this unit. The manual is pretty limited.
Thanks

[Old___Slow]

Prof95:

You must have looked at a real Ultra-Gen. At 74 my eye sight might be Old and mind Slow, however I read the Ad as saying 'NEW Ultra-Gen Powerhouse Generators' No Champion listed. Different bread of cat. No dealer info' given, only E-mail: sales@ultra-fab.com They never sold a generator before, on line. Never offered a 3500 @ $459 and now I no longer find a listing for a 40008 with their dealer PPL in Houston where we told to buy that unit. Looks to me like big changes are coming to Champion and my little yellow a black beauty should never be classed as a BLUE MAX. And what's with this Laptop and Computer safe thing and electronic circuit protection. Sound like the 40008 will be out dated with Ultra-Gen line of gensets. Strange they would advertise something they can't delivery with this NEW line of 'Ultra-Gen Powerhouse Generators':h

[Wxguru]

just a suggestion, but at a truck club site I was a member of, we would see how many would want a certain item, get together the numbers, then submit to companies to see which would offer the best "group discount". Just a thought.

[professor95]

bbrown93647 wrote:
Hi Guys:
Sorry for the repost, I apparently started a new thread by accident, so I'll try again...

I have been lurking here for 6 months or so and and as a result of the great info provided on this forum, I bought the Champion C46540 for about $274 OTD from a local Kragen. I have tested the unit and it seems to work fine. While reading the owner's manual (shocking isn't it?) I noticed the grounding recommendation on page 5.
They state:
"Grounding the generator provides extra safety.
The National Electric Code requires that this product be properly connected to an appropriate ground to help prevent electric shock.
Failure to properly ground the generator can result in electric shock. A ground terminal connected to the frame of the generator has been provided on the front panel for this purpose. For remote grounding, connect a length of heavy gauge (12AWG min.) copper wire between the generator ground terminal and a copper rod driven into the ground. This should provide a suitable ground connection. CPE recommends that you consult with a local electrician to insure that local codes are being adhered to."

There is a MAJOR difference between neutral bonding and grounding. The quick and simple answer is to ground the generator frame whenever possible as described. But, for RV use DO NOT bond the generator neutral to the frame or earth ground - allow it to float.

[professor95]

Ol-BomberoJC wrote:
Wiz (or Prof) - you can see the ad on page 81 of the March issue of Trlr Life.
It's blue in color, branded as an "Ultra-Gen" Powerhouse Generator.
Shown with a wheel kit and a 30amp RV plug . . .
sure looks like a blue Champion!
~
However, we have been led to believe that Champion does not sell under
any other label/brand (re-badge).
~
Maybe a Champion 4008E "clone"?
~
Take a look - be a good question for Paul Cole.
JC

My sources tell me:

Ultra-Fab seems to have jumped the gun on bringing this advertisement to press. Currently, none of these units have been shipped to Ultra-Fab, other than a few prototypes.

The unit is an ULTRA-GEN by Champion. In the picture, the name Champion is barely visible on the engine decal. The main decal should read, ".... by Champion Power Equipment" or "Champion Generators." I can't tell from the photo if this one does or not.

Champion will begin shipping the blue 3500E to Ultra-Fab in early April. As of right now, no other retailer will carry the unit.

This unit includes the wheel kit, vinyl cover and new tri-digital meter - easily a value added $100 worth of accessories.

Subtract $125.00 for the electric start and another $40 for the battery (total -$265), and compare that to the bare bones price of the regular 3500 models and the $688 price tag is a little easier to swallow.

Also, keep in mind that the $688 price is the Ultra-Fab dealer retail price. Some Ultra-Fab RV dealers may be willing to sell at a somewhat discounted price depending on how good of a customer you are and how you intend to pay for the unit. I am aware of one UF dealer who will knock at least $100 off for loyal customers willing to prepay an order with cash. (but he does not want it advertised as to who he is!)

Maybe if enough folks ask for this model through CSK or Tractor Supply outlets they will wake up and choose to carry it in their stores - it is their decision, not CPE's, as to what products they carry. Right now, they apparently have no interest in changing product line-up. You know, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

BTW, blue is a new color for Champion per specs from UF. Prior to this model, they only used Yellow and Green as their colors.

[MrWizard]

Could someone (Professor?) please summarize the grounding/bonding "best practices" to avoid shocking users? It would be nice to have this in 1 post, instead of spread out amongst many.

Thank you in advance, from tHE nEWBIE!!

my view is DON"T bond the neutral to the generator frame, leave it 'as is' unbonded ( bonding the neutral ) in an (ungrounded/not earth bonded) situation just creates a HAZARD by making the RV frame part of the electric circuit

grounding the geny frame to earth ground, is neither here nor there it will do nothing for you 'one way or the other' when dry camping, because the genny and the trailer are NOT part of or hooked to the utility power grid.

your trailer or MH is one large 'portable electric appliance' attached to a portable power unit

there are some very detailed posts, spelling all this out , along with counter views,

safety is my number one concern and unbonded is the safest way. it keeps your RV frame out of the electrical circuit

buy a good portable GFI to put inbetween the generator and the RV power cord

[Old___Slow]

Will someone please post a picture of the ad of the NEW 'ULTRA-GEN POWERHOUSE GENERATORS' Trailer Life Page 81 March issue. It's a new model that looks like the old Champion 40008, IT's blue in color. Has a badge of UF ULTRA-GEN Must be a new line of gennys and HOT off the press. Not yet shown on ultra-fab.com YET Guess they will change over soon. This thread always brings the latest info' available. Surprised we didn't hear about it FIRST here on 3000w Chinese Gensets info':B

[Old___Slow]

JC;

I notice PPL in Houston that sold the Champion 40008 no longer has it listed. The only thing for sure in this world, they say, is 'Change' Out with the old and in with the new. Maybe the Ultra-Fad is the new Blue Max? Hope there not one of those pallet load dealers. Anyway in the Trailer Life Ad says it's a Trigital. 29.2 amps (Model 3500E) WT 132 lbs and a Qiiet 68 db. Laptop/Computer Safe. Price $688.00:S They list the 3500 (old C46540) @ $459.00 Wow. Glad I got mine for $270.00 Guess the price of fuel gunna shoot prices of Chinese gennys sky high?

Floyd

[ol_Bombero-JC]

MrWizard wrote:
well utrafab sells champion, this might be another model to the lineup from somebody else, or maybe a model they specifically requested from champion

the COSTCO Canadian champions are specific to them, and the champion sold at Home depot is not sold any place else, from what i've seen on here, tractor supply gets the same champion models as Kragen

Wiz (or Prof) - you can see the ad on page 81 of the March issue of Trlr Life.
It's blue in color, branded as an "Ultra-Gen" Powerhouse Generator.
Shown with a wheel kit and a 30amp RV plug . . .
sure looks like a blue Champion!
~
However, we have been led to believe that Champion does not sell under
any other label/brand (re-badge).
~
Maybe a Champion 4008E "clone"?
~
Take a look - be a good question for Paul Cole.
JC

[bbrown93647]

Hi Guys:
Sorry for the repost, I apparently started a new thread by accident, so I'll try again...

I have been lurking here for 6 months or so and and as a result of the great info provided on this forum, I bought the Champion C46540 for about $274 OTD from a local Kragen. I have tested the unit and it seems to work fine. While reading the owner's manual (shocking isn't it?) I noticed the grounding recommendation on page 5.
They state:
"Grounding the generator provides extra safety.
The National Electric Code requires that this product be properly connected to an appropriate ground to help prevent electric shock.
Failure to properly ground the generator can result in electric shock. A ground terminal connected to the frame of the generator has been provided on the front panel for this purpose. For remote grounding, connect a length of heavy gauge (12AWG min.) copper wire between the generator ground terminal and a copper rod driven into the ground. This should provide a suitable ground connection. CPE recommends that you consult with a local electrician to insure that local codes are being adhered to."

I have read in previous posts that the Canadian version of the Champion and a Home Depot version of it, are shipped with the neutral bonded to the frame. I realize there are different codes in Canada, but the electrical grid is the same (120V AC-60 Hz). Why the difference?

My question is:
What is the consensus about grounding and or neutral bonding using this unit in these 3 common uses of a generator?

Use 1- Powering an RV (31 foot travel trailer in my case) while dry camping. I could see 2 scenarios here, one with the genset sitting on the ground, the other with the genset mounted to a bumper frame extension and thus the gen frame could be connected to the trailer frame by some bolts.

Use 2- At home, powering key household appliances during a power outage (via long extension cord(s), no connection to the house electrical system).

Use 3- Using the generator with tools while out in the field away from the electrical grid, probably in the back of a pickup or on the ground.

Could someone (Professor?) please summarize the grounding/bonding "best practices" to avoid shocking users? It would be nice to have this in 1 post, instead of spread out amongst many.

Thank you in advance, from tHE nEWBIE!!

Bob

[MrWizard]

well utrafab sells champion, this might be another model to the lineup from somebody else, or maybe a model they specifically requested from champion

the COSTCO Canadian champions are specific to them, and the champion sold at Home depot is not sold any place else, from what i've seen on here, tractor supply gets the same champion models as Kragen

[ol_Bombero-JC]

~

[Old___Slow]

Always some new 3500w Genset coming to market,

Just opened the new Trailer Life mag. and there it is, The new Ultra-Gen Powerhouse Generators from 'Ultra-Fab Products', Inc that carried the Champion 40008. They list their new Electric Start 3500E @ $688.00 They also list four other models in the new line up. Looks like a Champion to me? What is it? But you buy direct from ultra-fab.com not RV dealers. Before, it was my understanding Champion only sold a Genset with their name only. Makes some other 3500w Electric Start models with lower prices look good.

[2003Bigsilverad]

I went to the tampa rv show last month and the only venders I saw there (for generators)where the ones for the high end motor home like cummins, hondas, and onan. they want alot of money for there generators wow! I'll probalby go to trackor supply and buy a champion soon. thanks for the great info in this thread. I would love to now how to make a new enclosure like the one the professor95 made (I beleive) with the photos that looks great.