3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[MrWizard]

do something like this in the OEM compartment {old}




{newer}

[tropical36]

No way can I read through all these posts for answers to my questions and even though I'm most sure that most all, has already been beaten to death.
Anyway, my on-board generac 5.5 has ceased to produce ac power, after emitting a large cloud of white smoke. The plan now and once I get back home, is to pull it and go for repairing. Now, just is case, this isn't economically feasible, I've been looking into a 3500w Champion at Camping World.
Has anybody installed one of these in the on-board space and with no significant air space around it?
Are there any other concerns that I should be aware of? Even putting fuel in it seems to be a problem, but do have some ideas towards that issue.
Even though, I'd only be able to run one ac on it, I'd like to plug the rear ac into one of the 15amp outlets, so as to have a choice for which one I want to run.
Thanks in advance and will welcome all input and advice.

[MrRchitty]

DPGBG wrote:
I'll give this a try. Thank you sir.. enjoy your vacation. I'm planning on heading to a steam show this weekend and hopefully I can get this generator figure out by then.

Good luck.

[DPGBG]

I'll give this a try. Thank you sir.. enjoy your vacation. I'm planning on heading to a steam show this weekend and hopefully I can get this generator figure out by then.

[MrRchitty]

DPGBG wrote:
So if i'm following you.. is the below picture what your saying to do.

Meaning I cant stack the wires together coming out of the stator. I have to connect them after the terminal block.

Yes.

It sucks they do that with these generators because you can't even get 15 amps from the outlets.

The switchable one from champion offers the best of both worlds.

Mine from champion is not switchable and is 120 all of the time. I've rewired the head on demand to get 220 volts out of it to do the well pump during hurricanes.

The good thing with mine, I'm able to take advantage of all the 120 volt power.

[DPGBG]

So if i'm following you.. is the below picture what your saying to do.

Meaning I cant stack the wires together coming out of the stator. I have to connect them after the terminal block.

[MrRchitty]

That is correct. I dont know why you're getting 20 volts. Put everything back and measure the voltage. See if everything goes back.

[DPGBG]

In an earlier post I show the picture of the test I did. I disconnected all the wires running from the block to the plugs, then just moved around the stator wires running from the stator to the block. Is this what your saying to do?

Sorry i'm just trying to get it straight.

[MrRchitty]

DPGBG wrote:
I have heard the battery reference and it confuses me a bit. I can understand paralleling two 12volt batteries. + to + and - to - however in the case of a generator are the hots + and the neutrals - . So wouldn't that mean putting my red with the black (+)together. And the two Whites (-) together?

Also.. Thanks so much for your help.

On this generator, while the whites would represent neutral, and they do, in order to get 220 volts the whites have to be bonded. But, to be in phase, one of the whites would represent positive, if you will.

Before someone jumps on, it is alternating current and actually goes positive and negative.

But, to be in phase, that's what you have to do. Remember, to disconnect the wires leaving the head. The two whites are bonded at the outlets.

If you bond the whites together, then bond the red and black together, you'll be 180 degrees out of phase and that is where you have the 220 volt potential.

[DPGBG]

I have heard the battery reference and it confuses me a bit. I can understand paralleling two 12volt batteries. + to + and - to - however in the case of a generator are the hots + and the neutrals - . So wouldn't that mean putting my red with the black (+)together. And the two Whites (-) together?

Also.. Thanks so much for your help.

[MrRchitty]

DPGBG wrote:
I believe I did this and the result is 20 volts. Coil one red to coil 2 white... then coil 2 black to coil 1 white. Is that what your saying.

So I will have 2 of the terminal posts with wires on them.

Exactly.

To answer your question about the voltage going up to 180 on one of the windings is due to the fact that only one of the windings is sampled by the AVR.

[DPGBG]

I believe I did this and the result is 20 volts. Coil one red to coil 2 white... then coil 2 black to coil 1 white. Is that what your saying.

So I will have 2 of the terminal posts with wires on them.

[MrRchitty]

Ok... down and dirty.... At the junction, the wires need to be on four separate lugs. Imagine for a minute that each winding is a AA battery with a positive side and a negative side. When placed end to end in a flashlight, you have the 2.5 volts with 1.25 volts at the center. That is series. Now, take those same two batteries and place them next to each other, negative on one side and positive on the other, that's parallel and you'll have 1.25 volts with twice the amps. At the head, you need to disconnect the wires leaving the head. You will take the red and white from one winding and place it over the black and white of the other winding. In this case of this generator, a white from one winding is going to be with the red and the white from the other winding is going to over the black. That'll give you 25 amps at 125 volts. You don't have the right twist lock to take advantage of the new set up, nor the right Gage wire if you do want to change it out. You'll need a 25 and push button circuit breaker and 10 Gage wire.

I hope this is not confusing.

[DPGBG]

Not touching at the head from what I can see. But I connect them together at the terminal block. I also tried jumping them at the block so not to connect them on top of each other.

To add.. If I leave stock wiring I get 120v from red to white, I get 120 volt from white to black, and 240 volt from red to black. However as soon as I remove the neutral bond. I get about 180 volt from red to white and black to white and I get nothing from red to black.

To me that seams like as soon as the neutral bond is broken the AVR is no longer controlling the voltage. Does that sound possible.

Without the neutral bond both coils are running unrelated and seem to be maxing out or uncontrolled.

[MrRchitty]

DPGBG wrote:
ok. I believe I figure out how to add the picture. Here is the wiring schematic.

Also this is what I tested that I believe should have worked.. Didn't tho.

Thanks all

From the generator head, are any of the for wires touching? (At the head only)

Next, the AVR meters a very small portion of one winding and adjusts the field voltage.