3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[W7SFO]

Zipped into Pep Boys today. Walked out with the powermate 2500. After 20oz of oil and a tank of gas she fired up on the 4th pull.

Not near as loud as feared. Ran very smooth.

Then came the test. Plugged in the Toy Hauler. Turned on the electric heater. Turned on the A/C. Thing didn't even burp. Just kept on running as if nothing were turned on.

Only time will tell, but for what little I need a generator, it seems well worth the money.

[BlackMax]

Well I finished the conversion from gasoline to propane only. I spoke to Todd at Hendrix and after discussing what would be right in a durable set-up for operating the generator off of propane tanks exclusively, the price tag neared $300. Steep, but I wanted bullet-proof and complete. Sending him the carburetor for conversion (high quality work with set screw plugs and no silicone) I got the carb and kit back at my door by week's end. I don't mind fabricating a bit but I wasn't interested in getting creative with high pressure propane. Also wanted to be able to sleep at night if I actually used the unit unattended. I believe the finished product to be just what I wanted; solid, durable and safe. This kit has a positive shut-off/filter before the regulator. The conversion took no additional parts other than a plate I made. The mounting of the kit took a bit of creativity but not challenging. While it didn't fire up on the first try due to my ignorance of how the unit actually fuels itself, on a Saturday, Todd answered my call, and walked me through getting it started. It was easy with his help. I'm very pleased with the outcome.

[kneisl1]

Youll have to rewire the generator is get 15 amps at 120v. I have a 2200 and thats what I did. Go back to around page 90 for the information. Your 2200 has an 8 amp breaker. I got a 13 amp breakeer for the 3500 which is identical otherwise from Power Pro. (I told them I broke my neighbors 3500)
You see your 2200 has two windings in series with a center tap. That a way one circuit can be 120v and both together 240v. But at 7 amps each. You can put the two circuits in parallel and youll get 120v at 15 amps but ONLY in 120v from now on. No more 220v. Youll need to replace your 8 amp breaker though or youll never get anything like 15 amps.
Radio Neal that was great to hear how well the generator performed!

[Navychop]

ken7520:

Regarding grounding the generator. I realized if you don't connect to a grounding rod or water pipe leading to earth, then you don't have a ground- i.e. the third or grounding pin on your receptacles will not work or provide any protection. Some equipment can detect the lack of ground and not work, or not work properly.

[Skibane]

Ken7520 wrote:

However, I looked in the owner's manual and it states in specifications that the "Rated Amperage" is 15 for 120 v. and 7.5 for 240 v.

I'd bet that the "Rated Amperage" they're talking about refers to the generator, not to any individual outlet. 15 amps at 120 volts is 1800 watts, which is probably your generator's rated power output (with 2200 watts merely being the "surge" output rating).

Way, way back in a early post on this thread (on page 130, to be exact) , kneisl1 mentions that the 2200 watt model is wired the same way as the 3500 watt model, and describes how to re-wire it in order to have the generator's full rated 15 amps available at either outlet.

(edited to add link to Thread Page 130)

[MrWizard]

Ken7520 wrote:
As mentioned in an earlier post, I just purchased the PowerPro 2200 from Pep Boys. I have read about only getting 7.5 amps for the 120 volt receptacle because it is only connected to one leg of the 240.

However, I looked in the owner's manual and it states in specifications that the "Rated Amperage" is 15 for 120 v. and 7.5 for 240 v. Is it possible that they have begun configuring the wiring differently? It runs my 15-amp DeWalt 12-inch mitre saw just fine, and I hooked up a 1,500 watt electric heater and ran it on high with no problems.

It will not start up my 2 hp Porter Cable portable air compressor, but that thing draws a lot of current anyway. I have tripped several 15 amp breakers at people's houses with that thing.

Just curious if I am getting more than 7.5 amps out of it on 120 v. That's only 900 watts.

I can scan and post the wiring diagram if anyone wants to see it.

does it have a 'switch' for changing between 120/240

if not , I would like to see the schematic

too get full power either way with out a switch, would require (2) sets of windings in the generator head

running the saw, is not the same thing as a full load 15 amp cut of a 3 x 12 joist

I have the champion 1500 peak 1200 continous and it will run the microwave IF nothing else is on ( i turn off the converter-charger )

it is 120v only no 240v

[fallsrider]

As mentioned in an earlier post, I just purchased the PowerPro 2200 from Pep Boys. I have read about only getting 7.5 amps for the 120 volt receptacle because it is only connected to one leg of the 240.

However, I looked in the owner's manual and it states in specifications that the "Rated Amperage" is 15 for 120 v. and 7.5 for 240 v. Is it possible that they have begun configuring the wiring differently? It runs my 15-amp DeWalt 12-inch mitre saw just fine, and I hooked up a 1,500 watt electric heater and ran it on high with no problems.

It will not start up my 2 hp Porter Cable portable air compressor, but that thing draws a lot of current anyway. I have tripped several 15 amp breakers at people's houses with that thing.

Just curious if I am getting more than 7.5 amps out of it on 120 v. That's only 900 watts.

I can scan and post the wiring diagram if anyone wants to see it.

[RadioNeal]

Champion Generators vs Hurricane Wilma.

After 3 days in the dark, as it became apparent that power would not be restored quickly, a number of my neighbors decided to buy generators. While ELM3000's were not available, Sam's club and BJ Wholesale had Champions for sale. BJ Wholesale had 3500 Watt units, Sams had the larger 5500 Watt Champion for sale.

Guess who got to assemble and teach people how to set up and use them??? Yours truly.

In all, 4 households bought the Champion 5500, and 2 bought Champion 3500 units.

There were several minor problems with a few of the 5500 Watt units. One would run only briefly, then shut down. I quickly traced the problem to a kinked fuel line where it exits the fuel shut off valve. It was just a little too long. Snipping an inch off it prevented it from re-kinking.

Two other 5500 Watt units developed vapor lock in the fuel tank. They would burn about 2-1/2 to 2 gallons of fuel, then shut down. Loosening the fuel cap produced a whoosh of air being sucked in. Placing a small bit of wire across the fuel cap's black rubber seal when replacing the cap allowed for a small amount of air to equalize the tank pressure and provided a workable, if not elegant, solution to the problem.

While none of the Champions were put to such a harsh test as I put my ELM3000, everyone who bought a Champion was satisfied with their purchase, and darned happy to have power and TV. (Especially those with children.) The relative quiet of the Chinese generators was noted with approval by everyone who had them, and with envy by the other neighbors with Colemans, Generacs, Troy-Bilts, Etc.

Oddly enough, while there seemed to be generators available for purchase a few days after the storm, gas cans were nowhere to be found! As people bought generators, I leant my empties to them. Waiting on line for gas I couldn't help them with, although people took turns bringing all the cans for re-fill.

Once again, the information on this list was invaluable.

[RadioNeal]

ELM3000 VS Hurricane Wilma --- Wilma loses in overtime!

Hi All,

It's been a long time since I posted anything to the group, but I thought I'd share my experiences with my ELM3000 after being slammed by hurricane Wilma. I live in Boca Raton, Florida, (Look up 33428 on Google or Mapquest) And we were directly in the path of the storm. The eyewall passed directly over us. There was a 30 minute period when I could go outside to check out the damage, then the winds reversed direction and the fierce winds resumed, blowing the opposite way. Sustained winds of 120MPH were recorded, with gusts to 147. Boca Raton Executive airport was wrecked, with 80 aircraft, including a few corporate jets, turned into write-offs. Not one hanger survived. All the large trees in my development were toppled. While my house sustained little damage, except for the screen enclosure in the back, the local electric grid was severely damaged. Over 3 million people without power. My power went out at about 7:00AM on 10/24, and did not return until 12 days later. About five thousand customers are still without power as of this morning.

As soon as the winds died down I set the ELM3000 out back and fired it up at 2:00PM on 10/24. I ran the ELM3000 for 284 hours straight, shutting down for less than 5 minutes twice a day to re-fuel and top up the oil. That's right: 12 days of continuous operation! With a modest load of 2 side-by-side refrigerators (Ice & water dispenser in the door) 2 13" TV sets 2 floor fans, and about 400 Watts of assorted table lamps. (I ran a line to my next door neighbor's house, which is why we have 2 of everything.) The ELM3000 could be counted upon to run this modest load for 16+ hours on one tank of fuel. That was wonderful as it meant I could juice it up after dinner and get a good nights sleep and re-fuel after eating breakfast.

I had stockpiled 60 gallons of gas beforehand, and it was a good thing too! After the storm, gas was virtually unavailable for the first four days as almost every gas station had gas but no power to pump it. After 4 days, some gradually got power restored, but there were 3-4 hour lines standard with optional fist-fights. I never had to buy gas the whole 12 days. By then, the lines were gone.

The ELM3000 purred like a kitten the whole time. Always re-started with one pull, and required absolutely no attention except adding a bit of oil every other day. I confess I abused the unit by never actually changing the oil. 284 hours of continuous use is darn good for a $299 generator. It shows no sign of wear, and the oil, while dirty is not burnt or showing any sign of breakdown. I think I got my money's worth.

I can't tell you how much difference having ice, fresh food, TV, lights and fans makes. (I cooked on a Coleman stove or BBQ grill) I hope no one here goes through almost two weeks without electric service.

A very big thanks to The Professor for starting this group, for it was due to posts on here that I decided to buy the ELM3000

[MrWizard]

Navychop wrote:
When on Guam, and using a (please forgive the foul language) "Coleman" (phew, glad that's over) 5500ER dead-awakening-device, I connected to a grounding rod I installed for just that purpose. When I returned to the States and foolishly brought it with me, I installed a rod there also.

Why? Several folks on Guam received significant shocks when not using grounding. One generator burned up, but I'm not sure that had anything to do with grounding. Shocks are not common, but neither are they rare. Maybe grounding is more important for larger generators.

IMO

it was most likely the circuits the generator was hooked too that caused the 'shock' problem

[Navychop]

When on Guam, and using a (please forgive the foul language) "Coleman" (phew, glad that's over) 5500ER dead-awakening-device, I connected to a grounding rod I installed for just that purpose. When I returned to the States and foolishly brought it with me, I installed a rod there also.

Why? Several folks on Guam received significant shocks when not using grounding. One generator burned up, but I'm not sure that had anything to do with grounding. Shocks are not common, but neither are they rare. Maybe grounding is more important for larger generators.

[fallsrider]

I just bought today a PowerPro 2200 from Pep Boys. I couldn't pass up the $219 price. I mainly want it for power outages and occasional construction use. It runs my 15-amp DeWalt 12-inch mitre saw just fine.

I was pleasantly surprised how quiet it is. I'm sure in the woods camping it would seem too loud, and is probably much louder than the much-more-expensive Honda. But it still seems quiet.

My question is...if I turn off all the other circuits of my house during a power outage, shouldn't this little generator run my refrigerator by itself with no problems? I ask because my refrigerator is on a 20-amp circuit, and the 1,800 continuous watts of the generator is only 15 amps. My refrigerator is an 18 cu. ft. model. If I could just run the refrigerator once or twice a day during an outage, that would keep things frozen. The rest of the time I could have some lights and run small appliances.

Thanks.

Edit: my question is answered. I looked inside the refrigerator and saw that the full power amp draw is 6.5. Should be a piece of cake.

On another note, the generator has a grounding connection and warns multiple times that you should always ground it to the ground. Does anyone do this? I never have with other generators. I did when I tested this one.

[kneisl1]

I wish my power pro 2200 came with chinese markings on it instead of english!

[Skibane]

flamingoland wrote:
Because of the flooding here in the NE (sump pump running constantly that can't keep up) and the threat of high winds that would knock out the electric, I finally went to Pep Boys to look at generators (yes I need it for the camper as well, so this was the push necessary).
I ended up purchasing the ProForce Powermate 3150. All the Elim 3500's looked like they'd fallen off the trucks! The boxes were all ratty and taped up.
Haven't started it up yet (too busy wet vac'ing the basement) but after doing a search on the forum, I only saw Coleman PowerPro's listed.
Anyone else have this one? The generator motor is made by Jiangsu. It has 2 household type outlets on it. Couldn't find much on the 'net. Any info appreciated!

Just picked up one of these at Pep Boys (on sale for $279 this week), and have some info on it:

Basically, it's a clone of the Yamaha EF-2600, sold under the "ProForce" brand by Coleman Powermate. It's actually manufactured by Jiangsu Sumec Linhai Power Machinery Co. Ltd., which is China's largest manufacturer of motorcycle engines and related products.

According to Linhai's website, the company has joint ventures with Yamaha and other companies, which would explain why this generator is a dead-ringer for the EF-2600 (except for the omission of GFI-type power outlets and a twist-lock connector) - same engine specs, virtually identical overall dimensions and weight, same 67 db noise rating, same muffler style, same brushless "condensor-regulated" alternator design, etc.

For comparison purposes:



According to the owner's manual, replacement parts and the 1-year warranty are handled by Coleman Powermate (although there is absolutely no mention of this model on their website). Whether or not genuine Yamaha EF-2600 replacement parts would fit this clone is an unanswered question.

Will it hold up? Well, the parts diagram shows a pretty rugged design - ball bearings on both crankshaft ends of the engine (plus one on the end of the alternator), and the build quality looks good (no cheap materials or loose/missing parts). The electrical hardware doesn't look quite as solid as my Generac, but most of it could be repaired or bypassed in the field. If it's as faithful a copy of the Yamaha on the inside as it is on the outside, it should last long enough to earn its keep.

[glcory]

Sonic1954,
I really appreciate all the help in rewiring the Champion 3500. I just got through rewiring mine per your instructions. I ran it for 45 minutes with a measured 37 amp load and it worked great.
Thanks again,
Gordon