3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[damac]

We have a 3500/4000 watt champion generator here in california and I thought everything was fine at the house at less than 1000 feet. Even in 100+ weather this generator was able to run our 30 amp service on our travel trailer fine. I had to start the ac first, before applying other loads, and at that time I could run the carrier 13,500 btu ac, pd9260 converter charging in bulk mode, and our household fridge/freezer rated at 1.86 amps max draw.

So I did that testing throughout the week and then serviced everything on the generator which had less than 50 hours at that point.

The trailer was taken to nevada at about 4500 feet, and about 90 degrees out or so I believe.

With just the fridge already on and the generator warmed up, the ac did struggle with running correctly, and it was turned off. Yet it did seem to deliver static wattage devices like the converter, etc. ok after it was decided to leave the ac off.

I asked champion and they gave me the standard 3% power loss per 1000 feet above sea level, but the figures still don't seem to be right to me as far as only running our ac?

Do those figures match up with others experiences at elevation?

At the time it was not possible to go out and see if it was a low voltage condition, which seemed how the ac was acting based on one previous incident.

I am going to get on the roof and service the coils and fins of the ac reguardless this week. And I will also check for mud dauber nests although the ac was working just fine at the house a few hours before arriving to the destination.

I am also thinking of just installing a hard start kit on the ac reguardless.

But I am trying to see if the situation raises any flags as far as the generator is concerned. Thanks!

[professor95]

TG923 wrote:
Hello,

Not sure if this unit will handle it, but I was told that this one has a 110/30 amp and one 220/ with each leg being 15 amps-switchable. PowerMax XP4400E-Electric Start Generator

I have not used this particular brand.

But, it is yet another one of the continually available open frame 3,000 watt class Chinese built gensets using a Honda GX200 style engine that we have explored and evaluated on this thread over the past 4-1/2 years.

I would be extremely surprised if it would not handle your A/C.

I also believe that the unit, given proper care, should prove to be durable and last many hours. The majority of these Chinese built gensets have proven to be pretty darn good for the initial investment cost.

The electric start is a plus. You will be able to add remote start - if desired.

The price is "right" for an ES unit with shipping included. Unfortunately, Champion Power Equipment - which seems to be the brand of choice in lower cost Chinese gensets - has yet to offer a ES model of their genset in the USA (other than UltraFab - which is $$$$!!). But, kits to convert to ES run a little over $100 and have been ordered, installed and reviewed on this thread. I myself have two of the ES add-on kits on some of my small engine equipment and find great value in them.

The only question is if a warranty issue or problem develops, who pays for return shipping and to where? Many of these one year warranty Chinese gensets only carry a factory warranty which requires sending them to China! Also, will the vendor provide payment for local repair should a warranty problem arise.

Repair parts are generally not an issue to the engine as there are many other clones that have interchangable parts. Champion is one know supplier of parts that often fit other makes of Chinese gensets - things like carburetors, fuel tanks, ignition coils, recoil starters, mufflers, etc. are pretty much universal.

Parts for the alternator itself may be harder to find (should they be needed) since there is a greater diversity in how these are made.

Just be aware that as long as the genset runs and works, it is one heck of a bargain. But, if failure should occur, be sure you have some parts, tech support and a reasonable waranty that does not exceed the cost of the genset to implement.

[TG923]

Hello,

I am going to be in need of a reasonable gen set to use at the race track. We could be possibly using it in a camping setting in the future, but not right away. I am going to be running a 15k Coleman AC unit and possibly at times a couple of double tube 8 ft florescent lights. Not sure if this unit will handle it, but I was told that this one has a 110/30 amp and one 220/ with each leg being 15 amps-switchable. PowerMax XP4400E-Electric Start Generator

If anyone has purchased this unit and has any good or bad comments, please let me know. Thanks you. Larry. Wichita, KS.

[professor95]

Happy_Waver wrote:
Thanks for all the info, my apologies as well for making you have to repost the pictures..
Looks like I had the air intake correct but was a little off on the hot air exhaust. Right now I think I will just stick with at least one open end.

Hey, no apology needed! This thread has grown so big it is extremely difficult to find anything posted more than a few months back. Thus, the old often becomes new again. 🙂

[Happy_Waver]

Thanks for all the info, my apologies as well for making you have to repost the pictures..
Looks like I had the air intake correct but was a little off on the hot air exhaust. Right now I think I will just stick with at least one open end.

[professor95]

Happy_Waver wrote:
Is extruded polystyrene be a good solution to make some sort of sound box to put over a my champion 3000/3500?

SNIP

I purchased 2 12v computer fans (85MM and 100MM) to put on either end if I closed it in, but am wondering if my original product isn't the best

Thoughts?

The die hards that have stuck with this thread will probably say, "OH NO, NOT AGAIN" for my reposting these photos:





But, this simple 1/4" fan fold enclosure is about the most effective thing you can do for the money. It folds up nicely and slides under a bed when not in use. Sound reduction on the closed sides is significant. The open side is still loud - so aim it away from complaining neighabors.

From what you described, what you built is comparable.

You can put all the fans you want in a box, but they will be useless unles you respect the designed air flow for the genset. Air to cool the engine goes in as in this photo:



...and exits here:



Cooling air for the generator enters here:



And exits where the generator bolts to the engine. For this reason a fan that pulls air from this point in either a downdraft or backdraft position will give the best cooling results. I use a downdraft fan placed in a box under the generator with excellent results. The fan is in the plywood box the genny is sitting on. There are openings in the floor of the compartment and the top of the box. The fan is inside. The muffler is relocated under the compartment.



Just remember, blowing air at the engine or generator will have little if any beneficial impact. You need to allow for original design airflow and then provide an exhaust fan to get the heat out. Some have been successful blowing air in, but they use closed boxes and force air out an exhaust port in the same manner as an exhayst fan.

[Happy_Waver]

Is extruded polystyrene be a good solution to make some sort of sound box to put over a my champion 3000/3500?

In an effort to kill some time last night I built a 4 sided box (three sides and top, muffler side open) out of 1.5 inch thick extruded polystyrene floor board that I had laying around. I was only able to test it in my garage so my results afterwards were mixed (and I don't have a sound monitor)

I don't have any immediate need or plans to use the box, but thought it would be something to have sitting in a bench if we ever found ourselves in a situation that might warrant it. (ie. Generator Hater Neighbors)

Of course the tinker'er inside me figures there is always some improvement to be made. I purchased 2 12v computer fans (85MM and 100MM) to put on either end if I closed it in, but am wondering if my original product isn't the best

Thoughts?

[MrWizard]

I would call champion direct, i expect it only a couple of dollars, i'm sure its less than $10, and very likely only $3 or $4

[damac]

Would anybody happen to have a clue as to how much the spark arrestor bolt on kit would cost for a champion C46540?

I do see the few parts I need listed in the manual, would I call champion directly to buy parts or go through one of their distributors?

Thanks!

[professor95]

N9WOS wrote:
Some other products I thought would be worth mentioning.

A two stroke digital battery charger. Up to 55 amps charge current at 12V.

SNIP

For people that mainly run the generator to charge the batteries. They are the answer to a prayer.


If you used them to charge a battery bank that runs a sine wave inverter. You would have a true to life series hybrid generator.:B

I have visited that site before and agree 100%. But, I would be surprised if we ever see them in the USA now that this company or brand would need to have the five million dollar bond EPA is requiring.

[N9WOS]

Some other products I thought would be worth mentioning.

A two stroke digital battery charger. Up to 55 amps charge current at 12V.

http://www.diytrade.com/china/4/products/5521655/YK55A_12V_Digital_Battery_Charger.html

The inverter generator version of the two stroke generator.

http://www.diytrade.com/china/4/products/4519588/YK950i_Digital_Inverter_Generator.html

A four stroke version of the digital battery charger. Up to 50 amps charge current.

http://www.bikudo.com/product_search/details/13976/yk50a_digital_battery_charger.html

For people that mainly run the generator to charge the batteries. They are the answer to a prayer.


If you used them to charge a battery bank that runs a sine wave inverter. You would have a true to life series hybrid generator.:B

[MrWizard]

^^ yep..what he said.. totally correct ^^

don't worry about the brushes, they do the same thing as the brushes in your cars alternator, field voltage for control, NOT power output

[N9WOS]

Brushes are just chunks of carbon. Nothing will really bother them. The only contact surface that will suffer degradation is the slip ring that they run on. It’s copper or brass and will suffer oxidation with contact with the elements. The green sheen as you would call it. On slip rings on a rotating field generator, the oxidation isn’t really much of a problem. The field coil is relatively low current, so nothing will be damaged by a little bit of poor contact until the brushes run on the rings long enough to clean them by normal friction.

Now I have books covering the prepping and maintenance of brushes and commutators. But that is mainly for high current brush systems. Where poor contact will result in burning and scorching of contact surfaces. Not a problem in your champion.

[jdpttrsn]

Have been reading RV.net for a long time. Going to buy a Champion mostly for 1-3 times a year for home backup power to run a sump and freezer, and maybe use on camper. I have read a lot about the Champion here and believe it uses brushes. It was suggested to me that if I am going to store a generator that uses brushes, in my garage on a shelf (in Michigan, garage not heated but insulated with bedrooms above), that I could prolong its life by storing it in a bag that the air can be vacuumed out of with a shop vac to keep the brushes from corroding. Would this help prolong the brush life?

[racefan1965]

I just got my valve cover gasket for my champion. It's rubber so I assume that it's a dry application without RTV needed. Right? Champion customer service was fast and the part was cheap. It was only $1.92 for the gasket. Unfortunately it was over $10.00 for S/H.