3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

quabillion wrote:

Im still here professor. Been staying in the shadows with all the LP talk, as I am not interested in converting mine over.

Been working like a dog these past several weeks, not much spare time to tinker.

It is shaping up nice!

Now questions -

Where do the LPG tanks go now?

What thickness aluminum?

Any extra cooling provisions or is it just for security?

Are you doing the aluminum welding? TIG, I assume?

BTW - I did buy a low profile HF crane and it is in the back of my TV. Again, I need to make a picture. It is great for removing the fifth wheel hitch and loading things I can no longer lift. It does not really take up any extra needed space.

[quabillion]

professor wrote:
(Where is Ryan these days anyway).
---------
And Ryan, whats up with the new Honda 3000i?

Im still here professor. Been staying in the shadows with all the LP talk, as I am not interested in converting mine over.

Been working like a dog these past several weeks, not much spare time to tinker.

I have at least got the gen mounted on the tongue and the sheet aluminum box built. Alot of finish work is still needed however.
Several clearance cuts as well as a latching/locking mechanism for the box, and connecting the Engine Control Unit.

Here are some photos of the project so far.

Front view.


Passenger side view.


The door to access the gas tank cap.
My hand is covering a poor attempt at hinging the lid, Im too embarrassed for that to be seen before I rework and fix it.


Now that this gen is here, the diesel gen is being sold.
Doing this will allow me to shed about 745 pounds overall from the rig. The diesel gen weighs 525 pounds, the drum of diesel weighs 210 pounds, and the crane/base for lifting the gen weighs 150 pounds.
Shedding 875 pounds, and taking on 130 pounds for the new gen.

[Old___Slow]

Sounds like our Prof' would like to know if we are dead or alive. From this end, all is well. No longer is it hear say, that Champion CS is the best in the West. Placed a order on Monday (holiday) and three days later, bingo. They will also 'overnight' Sure is nice to turn the key on the Electric Start and hear it purrrr real nice and quiet. Hey guys, we are talking a C46540:B

Maybe tomorrow, the LPG will do the trick. No more worry about 'bad gas' and a carb full of gum, but there again it has run on gas for many trouble free hours with a pull or two on the ol' rope. Now, Progress has come. A C46540 running by the twist of the key starter on LPG!!!!??? Where are to folks to lead the way to RF remote control???

[professor95]

It looks like the thread has run out of "gas" (perhaps LPG??) for the time being.

I worked some yesterday on a new set of frame mounts for the genny in the cave. They were cut out of one of my old rubber shear springs off the back of the TV. Nice thick but reselient rubber about 1-1/2" thick and 2" in diameter. I'll try to make a photo to post today, Anyway, they work extremely well. Absolutely no vibration transfered to the trailer.

The exhaust is turning out to be a female dog. Accessability and connections after-the-fact were a BIG mistake. I should have prefabed all of the parts while the genny was out. Getting into the cave and gaining access to the points I need would be better suited for a gymnist.

The master control panel that goes in the camper is finished and ready to install and wire to the ECU I got from Ryan (Where is Ryan these days anyway). It looks really nice. I also have received the 12 channel RF remote control I ordered off of e-bay from a vendor in China. It is actually a really nice little unit and introduces the option for multiple RC points on the genny and RV itself. Once again, I'll make some photos to post.

My axle assemblies from The Doublehitch company arrived via UPS yesterday. I have all the steel and can now begin construction.

I have several tubes of Dicor sealant and the stainless steel eyebolts to get the solar panels mounted and a wire run to the controller/batteries. Unfortunately, these cold winter winds (it is like March, not February) are not the time to be working on the roof of the camper.

The add-on electric start kit from the Canadian merchant continues to work extremely well. I am pleased with it for the price. Paul Cole at Champion said he sent via e-mail an electric start parts/price list, but it never made it to my mailbox. Still waiting for a resend. He did tell me that the "dealer" cost on a replacement genny engine with electric start was $184.00 - only $20 more than a conventional w/o electric start. Go figure??? I sorta got the impression that if one currently owned a 36540 manual start generator they could get the dealer cost offer.

These 25 to 50 mph winter winds and cold are beginning to take their toll on me. I am so restless to get out with the camper and go somewhere - anywhere! Even with Virginia's milder winters (compared to the north and north west) it will be mid March before I can safely put water back into the pipes - even then I will occasionally need to burn some propane to keep the liquids from freezing.

I am looking forward to some final info from Sal. The dual fuel block was a great idea. I am also anxious to see what Bob ends up with on his LPG conversion. Perhaps we should take up a collection for Floyd to buy a camera so we can see his project's progress. And Ryan, whats up with the new Honda 3000i?

[tubular031]

my buddy has one of the generac guardians in his 5th and its very quiet when running. He was trying to talk me into it. I looked it up on ebay and the seller there claims 68.9db @7 Meters 1/2 Load. isnt that the same as the champian?

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:

Salvo wrote:
Randy-

Have you thought about building a little methane power plant from the black tank contents? That would be pretty cool operating the gen on methane.
DIY
Sal

Methane is truly all around us in our RVs
:B

😮 Sal, I've got the long hose and a extra fuel block. But, then again, I need a new ignition coil. The Chinese Champion lost it's spark from a battery made in the USA. It wasn't my fault.:W Floyd

[professor95]

tubular031 wrote:
Does anyone have the link to a way to quiet these things down? My buddy has a generac 50amp mounted in his 5th in the belly with a box around it. when running we were standing about 1 foot from the exhaust and did not have to raise our voices to talk. I was amazed at how quiet it was. I am afraid that these little gens will be more noisy then I want (for the good of the people around me) I know someone made a nice box to quiet them down but I can not find it.

You (or your buddy) should also review this thread:

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/20606145/gotomsg/21961656.cfm#21961656

[professor95]

Salvo wrote:
Randy-

Have you thought about building a little methane power plant from the black tank contents? That would be pretty cool operating the gen on methane.
DIY
Sal

Alternative fuels, especially those which can be claimed from untaxed, overlooked or waste fuel sources, have always been of interest to me. I have a collection of back “Mother Earth News” publications to prove it!

Methane is truly all around us in our RVs as can be established on a hot, windy day when our next door campers refain from using holding tank chemicals. If we could capture it, it would definitely provide a good source of fuel.

I have observed the flames on the pipes over the tops of sewage treatment plants and even read stories of resourceful individuals capping all vents except one in a conventional septic system and drawing methane from that one remaining vent as water is flushed into the system, pushing methane out the one remaining vent.

In our metro area, the City of Richmond has drilled wells into an old landfill, now used for a public housing neighborhood, to safely reclaim methane that was leaking up through the floors of the apartments into resident’s living areas.

And yes, I even remember in college the stunt of darkening the room while making a rather apprehensive fraternity pledge patiently wait on his hands and knees with a burning candle directly to his rear. He had previously been fed a meal of Van-Camps Pork and Beans, cauliflower and beer. (Isn’t it amazing how little it took to amuse us in those days?)

When the great fuel embargo of ’73 gave us the odd-even gas purchase days and 5 gallon fuel limits the back pages of Popular Science were littered with advertisements on how to power your truck from wood gas. One enterprising soul in my community even built the wood gas fuel generator, mounted it in the bed of his pick-up truck and attempted to power the Chevy inline six with the stuff. If I remember correctly, he had to use the discarded filters from several cartons of Marlboros (normally ripped off by former Chesterfield King smokers) to filter out all the sticky tars and resins in the gas.

Now, methane generation from a RV black water holding tank has entered the picture.

I visited the site you linked to. It was extremely interesting - so much so that I did “join” so that I could read additional material.

If the author's calculations as to the amount of methane needed to power a generator are correct, we would need to increase the size of our black holding tanks from the typical 40 gallons to at least 400 gallons and bring along no less than 4 cows, 5 pigs and 40 chickens to provide the biomass for decomposition in the digester.

I am under the opinion that the increased size of the tank and the animal population needed for transport in an RV would negate any fuel savings from the generation of methane.

My alternative proposal is to place a windmill on top of the RV. I will have it rigged to a re-purposed automotive air conditioner compressor’s electric clutch so that I may engage the windmill blades when going down hills. I believe I can wire the electric clutch to the vehicle brake light switch. This will induce a drag on the trailer so that I may generate electricity from the windmill rather than produce heat from friction in the brake pads. This excess energy will be routed to a storage battery. I will, of course, plan my routes so that I spend most of my time going down hills and away from bridges and tunnels with a roof clearance less than 20 feet. This will be a challenge since I live at an elevation of 200 feet above sea level. This is why I am now working on a system to capture the wind generated by passing tractor-trailer trucks when inclined highways are not available.

I’ll be sure to keep you posted on the results. The next time I go camping in California, I will keep my eyes open for a MH with 4 cows, 5 pigs and 40 chickens using a methane generator to power a Yamaha generator. But I must warn you, you will need CARB approval for your system or you will be heavily fined.

In the mean time, I think I will stick with my solar panels as a source of alternative power.
:B

[snarfattack]

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/15131645/gotomsg/21505663.cfm#21505663

A couple pages back are some more pictures... but these are the best of Profs. There are a couple others... this one was the first I could find.

[tubular031]

Does anyone have the link to a way to quiet these things down? My buddy has a generac 50amp mounted in his 5th in the belly with a box around it. when running we were standing about 1 foot from the exhaust and did not have to raise our voices to talk. I was amazed at how quiet it was. I am afraid that these little gens will be more noisy then I want (for the good of the people around me) I know someone made a nice box to quiet them down but I can not find it.

[Salvo]

Randy-

Have you thought about building a little methane power plant from the black tank contents? That would be pretty cool operating the gen on methane.
DIY
Sal

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:

Well, it's like the rest of the world drive from the right (wrong)seat. They also build batteries ( some mfg) with the positive on the wrong side, or right side, depends on how you look at it. I bought a battery made in the USA to replace an old one made in China, for the new Electric Start kit. I'll say no more. Just O&S.:E

Floyd

......and now you have a better understanding of the orign of Chinese Fireworks, as well as what side of the road to drive on.:Z ?

Back in my old days we used to differentiate by "Ford" or "Chevrolet" batteries. They couldn't get it right either. Of course the old Studebakers and British cars really were positive ground.

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:
Prof,

I never was any good with wires.

Floyd

Uh Oh, What happened?

Well, it's like the rest of the world drive from the right (wrong)seat. They also build batteries ( some mfg) with the positive on the wrong side, or right side, depends on how you look at it. I bought a battery made in the USA to replace an old one made in China, for the new Electric Start kit. I'll say no more. Just O&S.:E

Never before had a chance to test this story about Champion (CPE) and their GREAT CS. On this holiday, I e-mailed CPE in the AM and had a quick response. I needed a new ignition coil. I already have a FedeX tracking number. On a holiday! So folks, better buy Champion:C

Floyd

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
Prof,

I never was any good with wires.

Floyd

Uh Oh, What happened?

[Old___Slow]

Prof,

I never was any good with wires.

Floyd