3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[big_murph_279]

You might remember that I have posted problems with this genny before. I have had problems with the govenor working right. Sometimes it would, other times it wouldn't. At sometime the gov arm has been hit by the crank. It was bent a little which has made it tight in the bore. I belive that this is the problem. In order to remove the arm I had to remove the crank. I think that I will go ahead and replace the arm and the govenor. I use to race go-carts when I was a kid. I have had many old style briggs apart. I really like the way this engine is built. This gen is been run a lot. The guy I bought it from didn't change the oil very often if ever. One time the govenor hung on it while I was at the track and it ran fast (sounded like 5000rpm). I don't know how long it did this, I came back to the camper and it wide open. When I took it apart tonight though there is very little wear on anything. Thanks for the help with removing the gen head professor95

[professor95]

big_murph_279 wrote:
professor95, I have never removed the gen head. Are there any bolts inside the cover(I wouldn't think so since the crank is tapered)? Should I just take the four bolts on the outside loose? Thanks, Jeff

Just the 4 outside as shown in this photo.

[big_murph_279]

professor95, I have never removed the gen head. Are there any bolts inside the cover(I wouldn't think so since the crank is tapered)? Should I just take the four bolts on the outside loose? Thanks, Jeff

[blkfe]

professor95 wrote:
Kyle,

The Chinese generators are taper shaft. The side plate for the business end includes the connection for the generator and grated fan assembly. Here is a photo I posted recently showing the case end of a generator engine.

You do not need to replace the flywheel in a conversion. There is a fiber ring gear that screws to the back of the flywheel. There is also a "charge coil" that fits inside the ring gear for charging the starting battery.

Most of the Chinese generator engines do not have the needed mounting tab on the engine block for the starter. The few that do have the tab would need to have it drilled and threaded to accept the needed stud.

Paul Cole at CPE was trying to work up an electric start conversion kit last Spring. The mounting tab turned out to be the major roadblock that kept the kit from going forward.

Brad's solution to buy an electric start engine for around $200 is the best solution if you are determined to make a conversion. You can take the crank and end plate off of your generator engine and put it on the replacement ES engine. You will also need to retain your current muffler, exhaust manifold, carb, and governor assembly.

Cranks and end plates appear to be standard across many (all?) Chinese GX200 clones. You can get into trouble when you try to interchange pistons, rings, push rods and rocker arms.

WGeorge11's suggestion to sell what you have and buy a new ES unit is ultimately the most pratical approach. The least expensive electric start Chinese built 3,000 watt class generator appears to be the DuroPower. Right now they are offering the referenced unit with no additional shipping charges. Floyd (Old & Slow) owned one of these about a year ago and can give you all the info you might want.

The only Champion electric start 3,500 watt unit available thru US distributors is the 40008 or 3500E sold thru Ultra Fab outlets. Unfortunately, UltraFab does not discount, but one of their dealers may - especially if you buy a RV from them. But, don't expect a discount as low as the DuroPower. Unless an UltraFab RV dealer buys a truckload of generators, they are paying around $450 per unit plus shipping for the 40008 from Ultra-Fab. Ultra-Fab buys generators from Champion by the shipping container (18 wheel trailer size) directly from China and resells them to their dealer outlets. The newest models are now painted blue and have the label Ultra-Gen by Champion Power Equipment.

If, and, or, when I convert my Champion to electric start I plan on using the Champion Block (engine). The tab thing does not bother me too much as I already Knew I would have to deal with it.
I have actually made automotive bellhousings from scratch before so this seems possible to me.
If I deside to take this on, I will post pictures.
Brad

[professor95]

big_murph_279 wrote:
Has anyone had to take apart a engine on one of these gens. My power pro started up the other day and started running wide open. The govenor doesn't seem to move freely. I took the govenor arm off and the shaft doesn't feel right. It is really tight. If you have any advice let me know. I will start to take it apart later today.

The governor arm is actuated by the camshaft. You are headed in the right direction as the only solution is disassembly. That said, disassembly is not difficult as you will not need to remove the flywheel, crank shaft, connecting rod, piston, valves or carb. Access is from the generator side by removing the crank end housing. Removing the generator from the engine may be a problem - depending on how tightly the generator is pressed onto the tapered crankshaft. Some just slide off, others are more stubborn.

[big_murph_279]

Has anyone had to take apart a engine on one of these gens. My power pro started up the other day and started running wide open. The govenor doesn't seem to move freely. I took the govenor arm off and the shaft doesn't feel right. It is really tight. If you have any advice let me know. I will start to take it apart later today.

[kyle_morley]

Duro Power, unfortunately, has a fairly checkered reputation. Most of the others don't have ES until you get into the 4400-5000 watt class, for $500 to $600. Powermax has a nice one, and seems to have a fairly good rep. I just missed a used-one-week one here on Craiglist, for $300.

Oddly enough, my local import tool bargain house has a 3000/3500 ES no-name clone on the shelf, but it doesn't have 240V which I like to have and appear to be at the lower end of the clone quality spectrum.

I like the idea of just buying a ES straight shaft clone, and mixing and matching, pretty nice because you still end up with two usable motors, and you get all the little parts that otherwise are easy to overlook.

I've emailed a couple of the more reputable clone houses to see what they get for ready to-go ES generator motors, that is to say, low profile and tapered shaft.

Oh, I was over at a buddy's today, who has an old Sears generator (pre-zip code) he'd recently remotored with a yard-sale Tecumseh . I expressed surprise that the shaft would fit, and he said he'd tapered it to suit by running the motor while he held a file against it!

[Old___Slow]

Well Prof,

Yah, I had a RED DuroPower DP3500EC (Electric Start) it was okay but the color RED belongs on a Pontiac Fiero. Blue is the sky. So that leaves "Yellow and Black" my all time fave' color. It's like, well, my youth. The first new car '55' was a Yellow and Black Merc. hard top with yellow leather seats, auto lube and A/C with the women in hot pursuit, hee hee. So now. It's gentlemen, start your engines on your boy's and girl's toys. We have those RV folks with lot's of different color machines. But mine is the best, it's a CHAMPION.:B:B:B:C

Have a Happy New Year on the Road with us old dudes,

Floyd

[professor95]

Kyle,

The Chinese generators are taper shaft. The side plate for the business end includes the connection for the generator and grated fan assembly. Here is a photo I posted recently showing the case end of a generator engine.

You do not need to replace the flywheel in a conversion. There is a fiber ring gear that screws to the back of the flywheel. There is also a "charge coil" that fits inside the ring gear for charging the starting battery.

Most of the Chinese generator engines do not have the needed mounting tab on the engine block for the starter. The few that do have the tab would need to have it drilled and threaded to accept the needed stud.

Paul Cole at CPE was trying to work up an electric start conversion kit last Spring. The mounting tab turned out to be the major roadblock that kept the kit from going forward.

Brad's solution to buy an electric start engine for around $200 is the best solution if you are determined to make a conversion. You can take the crank and end plate off of your generator engine and put it on the replacement ES engine. You will also need to retain your current muffler, exhaust manifold, carb, and governor assembly.

Cranks and end plates appear to be standard across many (all?) Chinese GX200 clones. You can get into trouble when you try to interchange pistons, rings, push rods and rocker arms.

WGeorge11's suggestion to sell what you have and buy a new ES unit is ultimately the most pratical approach. The least expensive electric start Chinese built 3,000 watt class generator appears to be the DuroPower. Right now they are offering the referenced unit with no additional shipping charges. Floyd (Old & Slow) owned one of these about a year ago and can give you all the info you might want.

The only Champion electric start 3,500 watt unit available thru US distributors is the 40008 or 3500E sold thru Ultra Fab outlets. Unfortunately, UltraFab does not discount, but one of their dealers may - especially if you buy a RV from them. But, don't expect a discount as low as the DuroPower. Unless an UltraFab RV dealer buys a truckload of generators, they are paying around $450 per unit plus shipping for the 40008 from Ultra-Fab. Ultra-Fab buys generators from Champion by the shipping container (18 wheel trailer size) directly from China and resells them to their dealer outlets. The newest models are now painted blue and have the label Ultra-Gen by Champion Power Equipment.

[snarfattack]

kyle morley wrote:
Has anyone ever tried to convert one of these JD or CPE generators to electric start? I bought my TSC Champion in a hurry, but am starting to wish now that I had looked a little harder for electric start.

Have you tried contacting CPE to see if they will sell you the electric start engine all by itself? Part Number: ST168F-2-100-0001G

[blkfe]

kyle morley wrote:
I've gotten mixed opinions. A few small engine people have said it can be done, but requires changing the flywheel and adding the starter (plus battery, started switch and solenoid), others say it depends on whether the block is drilled for it. I figure the flywheel and starter would be about $100.

One problem with changing the engine - as I understand it (which is pretty sketchy). generators usually are made to go on taper shaft motors - but while you can find taper shaft Hondas if you look around, I have never seen a taper shaft clone. which either means the Chinese alternators are not taper shaft, or you got to get special replacement motor intended for use on a generator to replace the existing motor.

blkfe wrote:
Been mauling this over for about a year. I can buy a clone electric start engine for arround $200.00. Just have not taken the leap.
Should not be too tough though.
Brad

Yep...sounds like work. Would (will) be fun though.......
Brad

[kyle_morley]

I've gotten mixed opinions. A few small engine people have said it can be done, but requires changing the flywheel and adding the starter (plus battery, started switch and solenoid), others say it depends on whether the block is drilled for it. I figure the flywheel and starter would be about $100.

One problem with changing the engine - as I understand it (which is pretty sketchy). generators usually are made to go on taper shaft motors - but while you can find taper shaft Hondas if you look around, I have never seen a taper shaft clone. which either means the Chinese alternators are not taper shaft, or you got to get special replacement motor intended for use on a generator to replace the existing motor.

blkfe wrote:
Been mauling this over for about a year. I can buy a clone electric start engine for arround $200.00. Just have not taken the leap.
Should not be too tough though.
Brad

[blkfe]

kyle morley wrote:
Has anyone ever tried to convert one of these JD or CPE generators to electric start? I bought my TSC Champion in a hurry, but am starting to wish now that I had looked a little harder for electric start.

Been mauling this over for about a year. I can buy a clone electric start engine for arround $200.00. Just have not taken the leap.
Should not be too tough though.
Brad

[Wgeorge11]

kyle morley wrote:
Has anyone ever tried to convert one of these JD or CPE generators to electric start? I bought my TSC Champion in a hurry, but am starting to wish now that I had looked a little harder for electric start.

Anything's possible ... but sometimes impractical. A typical electric start engine requires a flywheel with teeth, starter motor, a bendix gear, relay, keyed switch, battery etc. If you want electric start, I'd sell the old generator on Craigs list and buy a new one out of the box. In a word there's no quick fix, and it will probably be cheaper buying new. Good luck and Happy NewYear.

[kyle_morley]

Has anyone ever tried to convert one of these JD or CPE generators to electric start? I bought my TSC Champion in a hurry, but am starting to wish now that I had looked a little harder for electric start.