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3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy


For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at โ€œcloningโ€ reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a โ€œrunningโ€ display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. โ€œSupposedlyโ€ Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for โ€œabove average qualityโ€ Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an โ€œavailability listingโ€.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings โ€“ most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is โ€œreasonablyโ€ quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a โ€œlook alikeโ€ eng...






















Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.
10,029 REPLIES 10,029

HJB
Explorer
Explorer
Just sticking my nose in here to say that my little champion generator has been running non stop since last Friday morning due to the power outage here in the north east. Right now it's powering my boiler for heat and hot water, the pellet stove, this laptop and modem, the refrigerator, the sump pump, and two cordless battery chargers. It bogs down a little when the sump pump or boiler kick but comes right back. I'd like to shut it down and change the oil but I'm never here in the daylight to do it.

It also powered my camper for 4 days non stop back in July during a charity event I was involved in, it ran my AC and everything else with the only issue being that the AC and microwave couldn't be run at the same time, no big deal or surprise there.

So put me down in the category of Champion generator fans!!
2007 Jayco Jay Flight 232 EXP
2004 GMC Sierra 2500 HD
2 sons,
1 in the US NAVY
1 here at home
2 cats

http://www.lyricsforlife.org/

quabillion
Explorer
Explorer
professor95 wrote:
Like I said.....We have an ingenious and innovative bunch on this thread.

Now, Ryan, to show my ignorance... what is a "laughing jib"? Apparently it is an extension, but how it attaches and could reach as high as the roof of an RV to lift an A/C is unclear. It also looks like the crane is in a different position in the bed between the two photos. Could you please explain further? Just so we know this is not a new subject, it relates to lifting the heavy Chinese gennys into a truck for transport.

Wgeorge11, don't forget I had the same carring situation until a few months ago. My genny was on a carrier at the rear of the TT.



Right ok.
The laughing jib IIRC, gets its name because it looks really funny out on the end of the boom.
In my case it is nothing more than a piece of 1&1/2 inch square tubing. All of the boom pieces are square tubing and telescope inside each other. Locking pins hold everything in place.

The crane is solidly mounted to the passenger side rear of the truck. It has not moved between the photos. It does swivel around 360 degrees, maybe that is what is causing the confusion?

I could not find a better picture, but this is what I had in mind for your rig professor. It stows low so pulling the fiver wont be any issue, yet it still can losd/unload the hitch and genny with no back strain.
I spend every day of my life trying to understand that other people in this world do things differently than I do.

Salvo
Explorer
Explorer
VDOCAD wrote:
Salvo wrote:

I'm also a bit disappointed in my exhaust system. I connected a stainless steel flex hose to the muffler and routed it to the rear of the RV.

Sal


Where do you find SS flex hose? I sure could use some. Do you bend it like EMT?

Thanks.


At McMaster.com PN: 54945K13
Type 316 Ss Light Gauge Metal Hose, 1" Id, 1-1/8" Od

Sal

VDOCAD
Explorer
Explorer
Salvo wrote:

I'm also a bit disappointed in my exhaust system. I connected a stainless steel flex hose to the muffler and routed it to the rear of the RV.

Sal


Where do you find SS flex hose? I sure could use some. Do you bend it like EMT?

Thanks.

Salvo
Explorer
Explorer
professor95 wrote:
Key to the whole thing is to keep the air exiting the cooling part of the generator and engine less than 160 degrees F.(exclusive of exhaust temperatures). The 160 degree limit was derived by the apparent breakdown temp of the AVR and the wiring insulation used in the open frame class of Chinese 3,000 watt generators. The absolute maximum temperature allowable in such an environment is 190 degrees F. The 160 degree measurement point was in the air channel under the connection point of the generator and engine.


Thanks for the pictures and the introduction for providing an enclosure. My first mod is to add a 160 deg thermal switch. I'm not familiar with these switches. Is there a part number and where to purchase? Is it glued to the motor and wired in parallel to the kill switch?

Edit, I found some switches at ebay. Are these any good? 2 Thermodisc Thermal Switch L164-15 Opens/165F new

You get 2 switches for $6. Can wire them in series and monitor two locations.

I'm also a bit disappointed in my exhaust system. I connected a stainless steel flex hose to the muffler and routed it to the rear of the RV. The exhaust is now louder than without the hose. Does something like a lawnmower muffler help at the end? Do 2 mufflers reduce performance by restricting the exhaust?

Edit 2. Any experiance with this? 3 Briggs Muffler 1" Pipe Fits Kohler Engine #20033200

Sal

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
Like I said.....We have an ingenious and innovative bunch on this thread.

Now, Ryan, to show my ignorance... what is a "laughing jib"? Apparently it is an extension, but how it attaches and could reach as high as the roof of an RV to lift an A/C is unclear. It also looks like the crane is in a different position in the bed between the two photos. Could you please explain further? Just so we know this is not a new subject, it relates to lifting the heavy Chinese gennys into a truck for transport.

Wgeorge11, don't forget I had the same carring situation until a few months ago. My genny was on a carrier at the rear of the TT.
Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.

Wgeorge11
Explorer
Explorer
I've had the wheels on and off my unit any number of times. On the road the generator is either boxed and bolted to the rear carrier of the TT, or parked in the back of the Beast (Suburban) where the wheels add volumn and shift. I just set - balance - the generator on the unbolted wheels/axle assembly to move it point to point. Lifting it into the TV is a lot easier WITHOUT cumbersome wheels, and the wheels are at hand should I need to move it. I have considered adding a clip arrangement to the gen frame where the axle could simply slip into when it's pulled forward, and backed out of after moving.
The power mower deck is ideal for the MIG, the Homelites parked on the furniture dolly and the bigfoot tires arn't certified for highway use. Those of us without MH basements or 5ver caves just have to make do or be more creative.
Traveling companion

quabillion
Explorer
Explorer
Professor,
The crane pictured is very much like mine except mine did not come with the tall pole base.
Mine was also alot cheaper than the one pictured.
The mfg pictures of mine have it mounted to the bed floor, and tucked under the bed rail for storage.
I needed to build the raised platform that my crane is mounted to because the gen is quite tall.
If you were to get the same model as me and install it without building a tall base, you will have met all of you criteria.



In the photo you can imagine how without the raised base the crane will stow along the bottom of the bed rail, and above the wheel well.
I bet you could even use it with the bed topper in place :B


EDIT;
Boom extensions ie. laughing jibs, are super handy to have around. I use a 6 foot laughing jib all the time. It allows a 16 foot height reach in my case.

The laughing jib coming in real handy here.

Its also good for getting roof A/C units on and off of rigs :B
I spend every day of my life trying to understand that other people in this world do things differently than I do.

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
drfife wrote:
Get the wheel kit. It makes moving the generator around MUCH easier.


We have an ingenious and innovative bunch on this thread. Three other methods of moving the genny around from previous postings that come to mind are small 4-caster furnature dollys, Big Foot wagons, and an old power mower with no engine.

I believe it is Ryan that has one of the Chinese built pick up bed cranes to lift heavy stuff. I have been looking at them real hard recently (back trouble). Would work well with gennys, fifth wheel hitches, batteries, firewood bundles and more but would need to fold down or lift off to clear front of a fiver.
Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.

saycheese
Explorer
Explorer
professor95 wrote:
Anyway, the Blue Max would not have been a bad decision...


I almost jumped at it too since Amazon had it marked down to $212 (shipped) just last night. Now back up to $302 today.

CurtNLA
Explorer
Explorer
saycheese wrote:
drfife wrote:
saycheese wrote:
...Yeah, the weight and bulk is something of a downside for me, but the upsides are many.

Thanks for the help.

Get the wheel kit. It makes moving the generator around MUCH easier.
I had thought to get this, but I've read that many don't because it makes it easier for thieves too. ๐Ÿ˜‰
The wheel kit is nice, but it doesn't fit any of my applications well. I have a very nice hand truck that I use to move my Champ around at home and to move it into position for lifting with my hoist. Since I carry and run it for the most part from the bed of my truck, I don't have to lift a thing. I purchased one of the Prof's recommendations from TSC (large thick rubber pad) to sit it on in the bed of the truck. Maybe you can figgure out something that works like this without the back problems.



HTH's Curt
Curt :B Sandy :W
2008 3500 GMC SLT CC, DRW, L/B, D/A, Mud Flaps, Running Boards, Advance Bed Cover, Locking Tailgate and On Star
2005 Cedar Creek 37RDQS W/4 slides

"Everyone says I am nobody, nobody is perfect, soooo I must be perfect"

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
saycheese wrote:
I looked at all kinds of generators.....even this one, but with all the factors considered, the Champ won out hands down. Now I can charge my batteries, boondock, and use it at home. This thing will do it all!


The Blue Max is sold thru Homier Tools. Homier is a lot like Harbor Freight in the products they carry.

Homier is known for their rolling tool shows that set up for a few days in different cities throughout the year. I have some Homier tools and have returned products under their waranty. They seem to be a responsive and responsible company to buy from.

Their generators are (were?) built by Jiung Dong. JD is a huge, long time Chinese manufacturer of small air cooled engines for generators, waterpumps, scoothers, etc. Many of the rebranded Chinese generators sold in this country are built by JD. If you look you can usually find the JD label on the engine or decipher it from the engine serial number.

I own a JD build generator under the ELM3000 label. Like the Champ, it has a great little, well built 200 cc engine cloned from the Honda GX200. Unlike the Champ it uses a capacitor for voltage regulation. While the capacitors do not fail from heat as some AVRs may, they are somewhat responsible for an increase in what someone called "dirty power". On my older camper, the ELM3000 would make the microwave run twice as fast. There was an avalanch in the sine wave that the microwave apparently saw as a zero crossing and double clocked to 120 HZ. The micro worked, but if you set it for 10 minutes you only got five minutes of operation. When the carb on the ELM3000 developed some sort of problem that cleaning would not resolve, I ordered a Champion carb since I did not have a JD supplier and sliped it right on. Fits and works great!

Anyway, the Blue Max would not have been a bad decision - it is a good unit and is capable of giving many hours of excellent service as my ELM3000 has done. The ELM3000 is constantly being loaned out to friends who do not have generators for camping and back-up power. No one has ever complained! But, the CPE (IMHO) was a better decision.

If you look at the output of the Champ on a scope and compare it to a JD generator, there is all the difference in the world.

I originally posted these scope shots many months ago. Brand X is my JD built ELM 3000. The Champion 36540 (not pictured) is similar to the 40008 with the exception of slightly more noise (flutter) on the signal. I am posting them again for all the newbes that have joined us since then.







Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.

saycheese
Explorer
Explorer
drfife wrote:
saycheese wrote:
...Yeah, the weight and bulk is something of a downside for me, but the upsides are many.

Thanks for the help.

Get the wheel kit. It makes moving the generator around MUCH easier.
I had thought to get this, but I've read that many don't because it makes it easier for thieves too. ๐Ÿ˜‰

Also, I didn't want dirty wheels inside my SUV or to increase the chances of my Champ rolling around back there.

drfife
Explorer
Explorer
saycheese wrote:
...Yeah, the weight and bulk is something of a downside for me, but the upsides are many.

Thanks for the help.

Get the wheel kit. It makes moving the generator around MUCH easier.
Russell
'12 GMC Sierra 3500HD SRW
'13 Excel Winslow 34IKE

saycheese
Explorer
Explorer
professor95 wrote:
Please do not construe this to be an intentionally negative response. It is just an old man giving unasked for advice. Think about it before you let loose of that hard earned cash.
Not at all, great advice.

To be honest, I did place bids on two of these inverter gens and was, frankly, relieved that I didn't win! From all I've read by you and others here, I feel much better about my Champion purchase.

Yeah, the weight and bulk is something of a downside for me, but the upsides are many.

Thanks for the help.