3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[RDMueller]

professor95 wrote:

YEP, that and the alternator ducting are essential. It appears you are using an automotive radiator or transmission cooling fan. I see what appears to be a holder for a battery (battery removed), so I guess your genny is electric start? What are you powering the fan from?

Have you been able to make some metered sound level measurements yet, or are you just using your ears?

What temperature are you seeing inside the box vs. outside temp and load? I prefer to measure the temperature just below the exhaust fan.

Yes, it is an electric start gen. The battery is only removed because it died. I need to buy a new one, as this will make starting the gen with the cover in place much easier!

The fan is an automotive radiator fan and for testing, I've been powering it off of the camper's battery. I plan to look for a transformer/rectifier now that I know I like this fan.

I don't have a meter, but to the ear, the sound is substantially decreased, probably on par with a Honda inverter.

I need to do more testing, but I did measure 100 degrees at the fan outlet on a 70 degree day. Next I'll be taking temperature readings inside the box.

[RDMueller]

After deciding to go with an exhaust fan instead of a fan pushing air into the box, I knew I could go with a more powerful fan. I definitely wanted to go with something that specified the CFM that the fan could move.

My first try was 2 bathroom exhaust fans from the hardware store rated at 50 CFM each for a price of $12 each.  I figured 100 CFM would be substantially more than I was getting with the household fan.

I removed the old fan from the side, closed up the two exhaust holes and then cut two holes in the top to mount the bathroom exhaust fans next to each other. This setup was a definite improvement over the original configuration, however I still felt that more airflow would be better.

The problem was that using more than two fans was not practical, and to go up to higher CFM fans significantly increased the cost. If I remember, a fan that pulled 100 CFM was close to $100 as opposed to the $24 I paid for the pair of 50's.  My goal was to do this project on the cheap. If you start buying expensive parts, the cost adds up in a hurry and in this case I didn't want to end up in a situation where for just a little more I could have purchased a used Honda inverter gen.

So the search for an inexpensive fan that could move significantly more air continued. What I ended up with was a radiator cooling fan for a car that I bought on EBay for $25. It was advertised as 1000 CFM, though I doubt it moves that much in my setup. However it definitely moves way more air than any of my previous fans.  Additionally, I feel good about using this type of fan since it is built to put up with the heat and vibration, etc of an automotive application.  A bathroom exhaust fan could potentially be short lived when used in an environment it was not designed for.

Overall, I'm very happy with this fan, the manner in which it could be fastened to the box, the amount of air it moves and the price. The only problem has been the power source, since it requires 12v.  The gen does produce 12v, but the manual states that the 12v feature should only be used to charge a battery, so I'm not planning to run the fan from that.  So far, for testing purposes, I've been powering it with my camper's battery, but in the long run will be looking for a 12v transformer/rectifier.

After installing this fan and getting a feel for how much air it actually moves, I decided to remove the pipe that directed the engine exhaust out the bottom of the box.  I figured it would be ok to let it mix with the overall air in the box since I would be completely exchanging the air in the box every few seconds.  This further quieted the gen since the exhaust noise is no longer noticeable.

One concern I had was that if you have too great a suction and not a big enough entry, you could create a vacuum in the box that would effectively increase the altitude at which the engine feels it is operating. To test this, I made a basic barometer using a piece of plastic tubing with one end inside the box and the other end in a bowl of water.  I got the water level in the tube to rise about 1/2" which is equal to .04 in Hg - completely inconsequential.

So how did it work?  Very well!  Even running the gen at high load, the air near the air filter and at the front of the engine never warmed above ambient at all.  The exit air was around 100 degrees on a 70 degree day.  I also checked the oil temp after shutting down and it was around 170 degrees, which seems reasonable.  I do need to test it some more and see how that compares to running the gen without the cover on. I also felt around inside the cover immediately after shutting down to see how hot the plywood got.  The hottest area by far was that right near the muffler, but it was not too hot to touch.

As far as noise, it is definitely far quieter than without the cover.  I don't have a meter, but I would say it is roughly equivalent to a Honda inverter gen at moderate load. This was with a piece of plywood just sitting on some 2x4s to cover the fan. Once I build the top cover and carpet the inside, I believe the noise will drop further.

That's all I can think of right now, but I'll add more as I finish this project and after my next camping trip when it has been run in actual use.

[professor95]

RDMueller wrote:

So time to switch gears and go to a exhaust fan setup, where I would be sucking hot air out of the box instead of blowing cool air into the box.

More on that this evening...

YEP, that and the alternator ducting are essential. It appears you are using an automotive radiator or transmission cooling fan. I see what appears to be a holder for a battery (battery removed), so I guess your genny is electric start? What are you powering the fan from?

Have you been able to make some metered sound level measurements yet, or are you just using your ears?

What temperature are you seeing inside the box vs. outside temp and load? I prefer to measure the temperature just below the exhaust fan.

[RDMueller]

Finally, to discuss what I feel is the heart of the system - the fan. I initially started with a small household type fan attached to the round hole on the engine side of the box. The idea was to force outside air into the box and direct it at the engine and air cleaner, hence the placement of the hole. I then had two exit points, the hole in the floor and the hole in the back of the cover, which was placed near the muffler. I also had a pipe attached to the muffler which went through a hole in the floor, thereby directing engine exhaust out of the box completely. There was no opening on the top of the box.

This configuration ended up being a failure. The fan was small and didn't move that much air. The info did not rate the fan for any particular CFM, so I have no idea how much I was getting, but I'm guessing not much! The temperature inside the box quickly exceeded 150 degrees, even with the engine running with no load. This was unacceptable, so I moved on to plan B which obviously meant a more powerful fan.

However, I was afraid to put too big a fan blowing air into the box because that could pressurize the box somewhat. Pressurizing the box could result in reduced or even reverse airflow through the alternator, which I learned here would be a bad thing!

So time to switch gears and go to a exhaust fan setup, where I would be sucking hot air out of the box instead of blowing cool air into the box.

More on that this evening...

[MrRchitty]

Wow. Nice.

[RDMueller]

Next, I will be building a cover for the fan on the top of the box. The cover will be to further reduce noise as well as making it weather proof. I have envisioned a few different configurations but right now my plan is to go with a single sheet of plywood that is framed with 1x4s on three sides and open on one side. The exhaust air will then exit to the side.

I will post more pics after I build that part. However, it may be a while before I get around to it...

[RDMueller]

Next, I built a cover to go over the hole on the engine side of the box. Since sound does not like going around corners, this substantially reduces the noise. In the pic, the cover is framed with 1x2s, but I subsequently changed to 1x4s for more airflow. I also plan to carpet that piece of plywood to further reduce noise.

[RDMueller]

Here you can see the inside of the cover. Notice the trim wood that makes up a baffle. It was cut to fit close to the gen's frame at the height of the gas tank. Air enters the box from the hole in the right side of the photo and is exhausted thru the fan on the top of the box. The purpose of the baffle is to force air to move past the engine instead of just moving straight to the top of the box and out. In this picture the generator would be situated so that the engine is on the right side of the pic and the alternator is on the left side.




This pic shows the enclosed gen looking at the box from the engine side.




This one is from the opposite (alternator) side.




This pic shows the metal duct which supplies ambient air to the alternator.

[RDMueller]

Here you can see the cover. It is a single piece constructed entirely of 1/2" plywood. The individual pieces were cut precisely and then glued with wood glue and nailed with a trim nailer. There is no frame, just plywood glued and nailed together.

The cover was built so that it would fit down snugly over the inset 2x2s framing the floor piece. The cover can be fastened to the floor with 4 screws, but in the future I may use pins or latches to make removing the cover easier (there is no door on the top, so the entire cover needs to be removed to fill the gas tank).

You will also notice another previously used exhaust hole on the back which is now closed up (again, more on that later).

[RDMueller]

This is the bottom of the floor piece. I screwed two 1x4s onto the bottom of the floor so it would be slightly raised, making it easier to get fingers under the box to move it around. Notice the patch covering a previous exhaust hole (more on that later).




Here you can see the previous hole from the top. I also had pieces of rubber that the gen would sit on to dampen vibration. I have since removed the rubber and covered the entire floor with carpet (easy to do since there is no longer an exhaust hole in the floor.




Here is the gen bolted to the floor. This is basically the current configuration except that as I said I now have the floor covered with carpet.

[RDMueller]

First, I removed the wheels and handles. I then bolted the gen to a piece of 1/2" plywood that would be the floor of the box.



I also screwed 2x2s onto the plywood floor inset just the right amount so that 1/2" plywood used as the walls would fit over the 2x2s.

[RDMueller]

I have been working on my "doghouse" for some time now and am finally at the point that I'm quite pleased with the results and wanted to share my story here on this thread. First off, a thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread so far. I learned a ton here and without this knowledge, I wouldn't have even known where to start!

My generator is a PowerMax XP4400 that I bought a few years ago for home use in case of a power outage. I never really considered using it for camping until I came across this thread. After doing a bunch of reading here, I decided to give it a go.

My objective was pretty simple - use my existing generator and house it in such a way that it would be reasonably quiet for campground use. It would sit in the bed of my pickup when camping and still be usable for home use when not camping.

I will first show you what I have today and then go into some of the previous "versions" and the mis-steps along the way.

[professor95]

I would add one additional piece of steel bracing. There is a considerable amount of stress from the "bounce" that will be experienced. IMHO you need a connection between the top and bottom steel "arms" other than the vertical pieces. Also, use grade 8 bolts where you attach to the pin box.

[Beach-Rat]

Picture of truck.. if genny isn't raised it will be in the tool box. Ignore the wooden block in the hitch, it's to keep the slid in-place when I don't engage the auto-slider.

[Beach-Rat]

Basic plan