3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[skyzoomer]

Professor95:

My Bad! I'm pretty sure I used the wrong can of spray paint than the engine paint from Checkers (please see EDIT-2 in my post a few up from yours). That being the case, could you please edit your post and delete my reference to the brand of paint used since it is bad info.

Now wow, that is so much great info you posted about rusting. I'm going to read it a few more times to try to absorb all of the info.

Thanks much!
Skyzoomer

[professor95]

skyzoomer wrote:
QUESTIONS:

1. For folks who own the C46540, have you found that the unpainted metal rusts? If so, which parts?

2. Anyone know of a "brush-on" paint that is gas and heat resistant? Brand and model? (I bought a heat resistant spray paint from Checkers thinking I would spray it in a small can and brush it on the generator. Luckily happened to paint a gas can first and when I filled the gas can after 2 days of drying, the paint dissolved like butter on a hot knife.)

The paint you bought is an acrylic enamel. Yes, gasoline will easily dissolve the paint film. After acrylic enamel has cured for at least 30 days, it will become more gas resistant.

An acrylic lacquer will be more gas resistant. DupliColor markets acrylic lacquer as a "Truck and Van" paint in large spray cans. Krylon brand spray enamel is also a lacquer based finish. Lacquer applied over "green"(uncured) enamels will lift the enamel surface. I do not advise brushing lacquer as it makes a real mess due to it's fast dry time.

Tractor Supply stores carry an enamel hardener under the Valspar name for use in alkaloid enamels (oil base). It is an Aliphatic Polyisocyanate additive (sort of kin to super glue). If you use the Valspar Tractor and Implement enamels with the hardener, you can brush it on. It will take at least two weeks of cure time to develop good resistance to gasoline.

Your best bet if you want to repaint is a true two stage polyurethane or epoxy paint. Check marine supply and auto paint stores, but expect to pay a really high price.

BTW, the OEM finish on the gas tanks and engine shrouds of the Chinese generators appears to be a thermoset acrylic with application similarities to powder coating. It is really tuff stuff! There is nothing special about the black paint on the metal frame.

Rusting will occur inside the gas tank, especially if it is not filled. Some folks add a few ounces of outboard motor oil to their gas to retard this rust formation. You can also expect rust on the lip where the gas cap attaches as it is unpainted.

Anywhere bolts or screws go through the frame can be a rust point as the finish is often "scratched" off. Welds are often not well sealed with paint and can become a point for rust to form.

If you do not have a wheel kit, inspect the bottom of the tubular frame for exposed metal due to scraping on the ground.

The inside of the engine shroud "may" not be well painted, or not painted at all. Same is true of the alternator end cap. Take it off and paint the inside if bare metal is suspected.

The alternator is wrapped in a galvanized piece of steel. It can rust inside and out if the zinc coating is broken. It can be painted.

Inside of the alternator all the steel parts that the windings are wrapped around "may" not be well sealed. This is normal and rust can form out of sight. Usually, problems do not show up here due to the mass of metal involved unless the generator goes unused for long periods of time.

The aluminum used to cast the engine and alternator housing are also subject to corrosion. They will turn grayish white.

So, what is my advice? Do not try to paint the gas tank - period. Wax it with a good paste wax, frequently, to protect it from rust.

Paint any shinny black parts you want with any kind of paint you choose. The .97 cent a spray can Wal-Mart paint is as good as any (surprised?).

Paint the exhaust with high temperature black grill and bar-b-que paint (can be brushed).

If aluminum shows signs of corrosion, spray it with white vinegar (acetic acid), let sit, brush and rinse.

I store my outboard motors over the winter months with a coating of "fogging oil". If your generator sits for long periods with no care, there is no reason you could not give it the same treatment. Fogging oil is available in spray cans at most auto supply stores and, naturally, marine supply stores. The oil is easily removed with a spray down of "Simple Green" and a rinse with the garden hose. Immediately start the engine after rinsing so it will dry.

My knowledge in the area of corrosion prevention and paint coatings comes from a life-long hobby of restoring and modifying old cars and boats. Even the fiberglass ones have steel frames that can rust away quickly if not cared for.

[skyzoomer]

bugdude wrote:
skyzoomer,
check out the products by POR 15

Now that is SOME product! I wonder if I'll be able to get a wrench or socket on to bolt heads that have been painted with it. And since it dries rock hard whether it will "weld" nuts and bolts to make them very hard to remove later. I might need something a little less concrete like to allow disassembly later if necessary.

But I book marked that page as it looks like something that I need from time to time. Thanks for the link.

Any other "more paint like" gas resistant, brushable paint recommendations?

[bugdude]

skyzoomer,

check out the products by POR 15

[skyzoomer]

Since I live about 7 miles from the beach there is high humidity and hint of salt air which tends to make things rust faster. As previously mentioned, I recently bought a new Champion C46540 generator. I'm thinking about painting all of the non painted metal on the C46540 to try to prevent/retard rust.

QUESTIONS:

1. For folks who own the C46540, have you found that the unpainted metal rusts? If so, which parts?

2. Anyone know of a "brush-on" paint that is gas and heat resistant? Brand and model? (I bought a heat resistant spray paint from Checkers thinking I would spray it in a small can and brush it on the generator. Luckily happened to paint a gas can first and when I filled the gas can after 2 days of drying, the paint dissolved like butter on a hot knife.)

EDIT-2: I screwed up so I deleted EDIT-1! This morning I was cleaning up the stuff on our garage floor and found another spray can of paint. I think that I used that spray paint on my gas cans instead of the paint from Checkers since the can from Checkers still seems to be full (by shaking). I am going to respray the gas cans with the engine paint from Checkers and see what happens.

[LLeopold]

The unit was indeed running at a rate much higher. It was also slightly louder.

It is quite possible that the spring tension had changed due to the use (read: inside 140-150 degree operating temperature).

I just needed that "sanity" check. Thanks, Professor.

[professor95]

LLeopold wrote:
So, I have two questions:
1) I know that the speed of the heads determines the frequency, but is the throttle adjustment the only way to adjust the frequency, or is there some other, or more appropriate, way?

Not on your genset. Engine speed needs to be 3600 RPM to output 60 HZ. To have an 80 Hz output, your engine speed would be a screaming 4,800 RPM.

2) What would make the engine speed up like that on its own? It was 100 degrees+ when we used the A/C, but the temperature in the box never went over 150 degrees dues to the air flow. Did I merely "band-aid" a solution, or is there something else I should be looking at?

Check all the springs and their end hooks that are part of the engine speed governor. They are very sensitive to changes and can have a domino effect on engine speed. My guess is the spring tensions have changed from the day you started using the genset. As you found, the upper adjustment screw/lever attached to the governor can compensate for your problem.

[LLeopold]

As many of you are aware, thanks for this thread for providing me with the rewiring instructions for my Wen PowerPro 3500 generator; and with the help of fellow moderators, I constructed a sound box this past spring and it has been working charmingly (the project was posted in this thread and in a thread in Beginning RVing).

A couple of small "tweaks" (I attached a couple stand-offs on the tail pipe to minimize vibration and reduce some thrumming noise, like that of a drum). I used the unit when I went to The Rally in Redmond in July. At the Rally, I noted that I was probably the quietest in the camping area as compared with many built-in units and many of the Honda and Yamaha 3000is units there, and definitely quieter than the Onan 4K Juicebox unit which I got to see in action at The Rally. I'm definitely a happy camper.

While on the trip, though, I noticed that the speed of the generator slowly accelerated over time (i.e. as if someone was pressing on the throttle). Nothing seemed out of the ordinary otherwise, the A/C worked as well as many other appliances, but when I had the opportunity to fire up the generator this past weekend, the microwave would not work, even though I was getting a solid 118-122 VAC. Everything else works ok, though.

When I hooked up a "Kill-A-Watt" meter and checked the frequency output, I was getting 88Hz (not the normal 60Hz). As I said, the voltage was 118 VAC. I adjusted the throttle and slowed the engine down until I got readings between 58 and 62 Hz (varying). The microwave would still not work; that is until I put another load on the circuit (hot water heater or A/C). The meter then showed a solid 60 Hz, and the microwave then worked. Clearly the microwave (at the least the clock, but maybe also the magnatron) required a clean 60 Hz output.

So, I have two questions:
1) I know that the speed of the heads determines the frequency, but is the throttle adjustment the only way to adjust the frequency, or is there some other, or more appropriate, way?
2) What would make the engine speed up like that on its own? It was 100 degrees+ when we used the A/C, but the temperature in the box never went over 150 degrees dues to the air flow. Did I merely "band-aid" a solution, or is there something else I should be looking at?

Thanks for any advice you can give.

[skyzoomer]

professor95 wrote:
Go to black iron (or galvanized) threaded pipe. Use 1/2" floor flange hacksawed and shaped with a grinder around base to fit exhaust flange on engine. Drill new mounting holes if necessary. Adapter to go from 1/2 to 1-1/2 or use multiple adapters to get 1-1/2 OD. Clamp in flex and reduce back to 1/2 or 3/4 if desired. Lowe's or any plumbing supply should be able to fix you right up.

Had to google images to see what black iron and floor flange looks like. I get the idea now. Never thought of using "plumbing" supplies so thanks for that tip!

Skyzoomer

[professor95]

skyzoomer wrote:
Champion C46540. I'm trying to figure out how to adapt the muffler output to a 1-1/2 inch exhaust pipe. Any one already did this or have any ideas

Go to black iron (or galvanized) threaded pipe. Use 1/2" floor flange hacksawed and shaped with a grinder around base to fit exhaust flange on engine. Drill new mounting holes if necessary. Adapter to go from 1/2 to 1-1/2 or use multiple adapters to get 1-1/2 OD. Clamp in flex and reduce back to 1/2 or 3/4 if desired. Lowe's or any plumbing supply should be able to fix you right up.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Had to add this as to the dangers of LPG.
Many years ago was dispatched to a "man with burns" incident.

The guy was in the process of moving. Movers were there. He had a propane
fired BBQ. The movers told him they couldn't take the propane tank -IF- it
had propane in it. The solution (they told him), was to take the tank out
into the backyard, open the valve - and let it bleed off.

I should add - this was about a 10 yr old home, nice two story, typical city lot. The back yard was slightly lower than the home behind, had a border about
two bricks in height. Lastly - there was a nice natural gas fired in-ground
spa on the side of the house - a good 30-50 feet from the next . . .

He took the bottle into the center of the b/yard, opened the valve, set the bottle upside-down (he had to "steady" it in that position) and waited.
He was wearing shorts and jogging shoes.

Propane hugged the ground - filling the "bowl" made in the backyard by the
brick border. Fumes "found" the spa, and flashed. He had 2nd and some third
degree burns on his feet and lower legs. Burned the tops of his shoes off.
Melted some PVC risers at the rear of the b/yard! Fire out on arrival.

Kid working for the movers stated he had smelled the propane - and closed the
slider to the backyard a "couple of minutes" before the flash!

Double Murphy's Law, Deja Vu or whatever:
A couple of years later, the wife of a friend in the same city called me at my home. Husband is/was an Army officer - being posted to the Pentagon. Movers were there - he's at work (Army rep at an aerospace Co.).

They had a gas BBQ . . . and yep, movers told her to do "the same" with the propane tank. SHE didn't think that was a good idea (smart lady), and called.
JC

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Thanks to Broccoli1 & MrWizard for the video link.

cnsayre - re-read what "Old and Slow" had to say:
" . . . .I have learned on this -THREAD- [not post] the following
-AMONG- other things". [Caps for emphasis, brackets for added comment]

"One - the ground [info]
Two - the LPG [info]
Three - the CO [info]"
He wasn't "pinning" the other (important) stuff on you.

Back to the gen and the CO - also possible it was running "rich" for
any number of reasons, but I think the Wiz has it figured out pretty well.
I'll try to ask one of the L.A. City FD guys for any additional scoop - but,
big city - hard to track down anybody with more/better (first-hand) info.
JC

[skyzoomer]

Champion C46540. I'm trying to figure out how to adapt the muffler output to a 1-1/2 inch exhaust pipe. Any one already did this or have any ideas?

[skyzoomer]

MrWizard wrote:

http://cbs2.com/local/local_story_247164640.html
los agnles cbs 2/ kcal ch 9 video window on right side click the big arrow

Thanks for that. As previously pointed out in this thread, CO alarms are essential when running a generator. I just bought 3 combo smoke/CO alarms for our home.

Skyzoomer

[Broccoli1]

WaltinColo wrote:
In that vid the gen looks to be atleast 10-15 foot away from the house.... and they still got poisoned?
That sure seems like a long distance to travel, through walls, to get to you...
the air must have been perfectly still to make that journey...
My window a/c only recycles indoor air...

How do people with gens built into their RV, with the exhaust pipe not more then 6 inches from the coach, survive more then 2 hours?

I imagine since the windows are closed on most coaches when we turn on the genset and the AC unit is on the Roof:)