3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[MrWizard]

The one thing to remember with electricity is that "it will always take the shortest path to ground if it can. If you are a part of that path, you get zapped.

That's about it!

correction

electricity takes the path of LEAST resistance needed to complete the power circuit

IF one side of the power circuit is parallel with a 'Isolated metal frame /RV ' OR an earth ground and you connect between the hot side and that circuit , you become the path to complete the circuit,

which is why you don't want the frame of your RV to be the PARALLELED part of that circuit

as far as gfi they don't work real well with out the earth-ground bond.

using a portable genset there is 60v magnetic induce percieved potentinal between the neutral and and the ground lug of the GFI

my bathroom gif trips just from starting the genny, its ok once i reset it.

but I wouldn't go out and buy one for inline use with the generator, but thats my opinion, they can present a measure of extra safety, if they are not tripping all the time

I would definitely want one when using shore power

[Old___Slow]

I'm old and slow you know by now. The RV GFCI, in what location is it placed in the circuit.

[TKMJ]

Old & Slow wrote:
Please Mr Wizard, I don't want to belabor this grounding question. I'm still lost as a goose in the fog. I need to know about the RV GFCI, how it works and is it neccessary for possible good safety?

O&S,

This is how a GFIC receptical works in simple terms. No fancy words or terms here. We will talk volts only.

There are 3 terminals on a gfci receptical just like a standard grounded outlet. 120 volts flows from the hot side of the receptical thru the load (motor, lightbulb, etc) and back into the neutral line to complete the path just like any receptical. Voltage can be measured on both the hot and nuetral side of the receptical. That voltage must match exactly within a few milivolts. For example if 120 volts goes out of the receptical on the hot, 120 volts must come back on the neutral. If there is a difference in voltage by a few milivolts the gfci will trip to a fault condition. So if 120 volts goes out thru the load and 119 volts comes back, Where did that one volt go? The anwser is to ground or maybe the frame of the coach because it didn't go back to the neutral. The gfci senses this mismatched voltage and trips. The ground terminal is actually not needed to trip the gfci. This is why you can put a gfci receptical in an old home where there is no ground wire to the recepticals.

A good example would be a radio tossed into a bath tub. We all know what will happen if your radio falls into the tub. Scrub, Scrub, Splash, ZAP! DIE! The water became part of the electrical path and so did you. With a gfci in place when the radio falls in, the gfci senses the voltage difference and trips within miliseconds.

The one thing to remember with electricity is that "it will always take the shortest path to ground if it can. If you are a part of that path, you get zapped. Every outlet in your coach should be gfci protected along with the coach itself when plugged into a shoreline because if there is a fault condition, the gfci will trip keeping the frame of the coach from becoming hot. Remember there are only two way that the frame is grounded. One is to drive a ground rod, and the other is to rely on the ground wire in the shoreline assuming the outlet used is grounded correctly. The latter can be a lot to assume so one should buy a gfci tester. It costs very little and is about the size of an ice cube. It will tell you if the polarity of the outlet is correct and has a push button to put the gfci receptical into a fault condition so it trips. Just because the test button on the gfci receptical or breaker trips the circuit, does not mean that the circuit is working correctly. Always double check with your own tester.

That's about it!

Ken

[wpoling]

professor95 wrote:

subcamper wrote:
Also, since it appears an AVR failure could result in a much higher output voltage, what would be the best way to clamp the output to a non-destructive level? I imagine some sort of crowbar circuit to blow a fuse would work.

The probability of a higher voltage from a failed AVR is very low. In most cases, I believe you will see a voltage drop or no voltage. I can tell you that in playing around with the voltage range available by turning the AVR adjustment screw, 150 volts seems to be the max you can get out of the genset when wired for 120. While that is higher than normal, it is not high enough to do wholesale destruction to your RV and related appliances. Incandesent 120 volt light bulbs would get brighter and burn out sooner at 150 volts. Your air conditioner should accept the higher voltage and just pull a little less amperage. Of course, long term use at 150 volts is not a good idea for any 120 volt rated appliance.

My take is not to worry too much about it.

Tell that to my TWO television sets!! I measured 190 volts on my second AVR failure. My first went to zero. I'm looking into a surge supressor to protect the entire system to surges AND high voltage.

[Old___Slow]

Please Mr Wizard, I don't want to belabor this grounding question. I'm still lost as a goose in the fog. I need to know about the RV GFCI, how it works and is it neccessary for possible good safety?

[MrWizard]

vpkiljan wrote:


Hello Professor95, You're certainly right about there not being agreement. I reached just the opposite conclusions after reading the article in the IMSA Journal at this link

http://www.imsasafety.org/journal/marapr/ma5.htm

or click HERE.

These are the guys whose job it is to hook up emergency power supplies in the field during civil disasters. To me, that gives their views a fair amount of credibility.

(TEXT SNIPPED)

I've never read the NEC and don't plan to. But, to me, the basic principals seem plain enough: the neutral should be connected to the ground wire at a single point (and only at a single point) in every electrical hookup--portable or residential. And, that parallel currents flowing in the neutral and the ground wires of any circuit are a hazard.

the whole trouble with all of this is

there is NO earth ground refernece point or circuit point, if the portable generator is NOT bonded to an earth ground

do you drive an 8ft earth ground everytime your park your RV, and turn on your generator ?

of course you don't, with out this earth ground, the genny frame is NOT grounded your RV is not grounded, but if you have a bonded neutral, the frame is NOW elctrical HOT, it is part of the AC power circuit, parallel to the neutral wire

IT is only safe to bond the neutral of the genny to the frame, when the frame is BONDED to a DRIVEN electrical earth-ground

when an EMG response Agency powers of a hospital or somepart of the power grid, they make sure they have an earth BOND driven ground system in place, its usually already there from the original utility install,

a portable gennys setting in the campground, or your built in RV genset is NOT bonded to a driven earth ground, there is NO zero volt ground reference, to create this safety factor that ground is supposed to be, with out that effective earth bond your frame is not grounded and is not zero volts and it is NOT safe to bond the neutral to the frame, instead of 60 volt reference potential with no current flow possibility, you have a 120 volt real potential with the possibility of lethal current flow

[MrWizard]

Uhh, on mine it draws air in that end cap and expells it out near the front downward and toward the back. This flow pattern was confirmed by champion when I e-mailed them about the generator air flows at a time when I did not have access to mine, but was working on my enclosure design. Once I had access I started it up and indeed confirmed that it draws air in that endcap. This information was pivotal in my enclosure design.

you maybe correct and my sense of 'air flow' may be off, but on my champion it is COOLER under the front of the genny where the fan is and hotter at the end cap and it is definitely cooler to the touch where i mounted the AVR, than where it was inside the genny head

and IF you have enclosed it there will be more heat at that end and IF that is the air input, the heat will be sucked into the genny head unless you are putting outside cool air into both ends of the enclosure and exiting the heat out the top

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:

vpkiljan wrote:

Hello Professor95, You're certainly right about there not being agreement. I reached just the opposite conclusions after reading the article in the IMSA Journal at this link

http://www.imsasafety.org/journal/marapr/ma5.htm

or click HERE.

These are the guys whose job it is to hook up emergency power supplies in the field during civil disasters. To me, that gives their views a fair amount of credibility.

(TEXT SNIPPED)

I've never read the NEC and don't plan to. But, to me, the basic principals seem plain enough: the neutral should be connected to the ground wire at a single point (and only at a single point) in every electrical hookup--portable or residential. And, that parallel currents flowing in the neutral and the ground wires of any circuit are a hazard.

IMSA Safety Journal wrote:
What About Portable and Vehicle-Mounted Generators?

Portable generators are covered in Section 250.34 Portable and Vehicle-Mounted Generators. This section allows the generator or vehicle frame to serve as the grounding electrode when:
(1) The generator supplies only equipment mounted on the generator, cord-and-plug-connected equipment through receptacles mounted on the generator, or both, and
(2) The non–current-carrying metal parts of equipment and the equipment grounding conductor terminals of the receptacles are bonded to the generator frame.

Caution-Generator Neutral Grounding
Generators will often have the neutral conductor bonded to the generator frame. This is commonly done on small portable generators supplied with receptacles. [Illustration 3]
Larger generators with a cord supplied pin and sleeve connector typically do not have the neutral grounded to the frame. There is no industry standard for when the neutral is or is not grounded, however it seems to be dependant on the generator having receptacles mounted on the frame, as then the neutral is grounded to the generator frame. The generator user needs to know if the neutral is grounded or not.

If the generator neutral is grounded then the generator can only be used with a transfer switch that transfers the neutral, or as a stand alone generator for a carnival or special even, and then ground rods are required.

Yep, been there and read that. Thought about it a lot too......

Credibility? Yes, I agree they should be very knowledgeable and know what they are talking about. But, so were our guys who declared Iraq had WMDs and the engineers who said the bridge in Mississippi that just collapsed was safe.

I'm just an old semi-retired bloke (61) with an ancient BS in EE from the 70's. I hold a Master Electrician license and have a bunch of other electronic and electrical certificates hanging on the wall in my office around a sheepskin declaring I finally finished my doctorate in education in 1995 (now you know where professor95 comes from). After 31+ years of full-time teaching of both HS students and adult professionals the finer points of technology/electronics/electricity I now amuse myself by continuing to teach some electronics and EE courses at a local technical college, doing stuff to and with my RV (much of it electrical related), spending time with the most understanding and fantastic woman in the world (my wife), messing with little sports cars and even staying awake some nights trying in vain to figure out why so many so called experts can't seem to get things right.

I am in total agreement with your final statement ("parallel currents flowing in the neutral and the ground wires of any circuit are a hazard"). I am still adamant that portable generators plugged into Recreational Vehicles with a 30 amp 120 volt power connection should NOT have the generator neutral bonded to the generator frame unless both the RV frame and generator frame are also physically and independently bonded to a good earth ground. The later does not happen very often.

Run the possible scenarios that can occur when an electrical fault occurs with a portable genset and RV - both with and without neutral bonding and grounding. Portable gensets are set on the ground, truck beds, in/on the RV and maybe even hung from a tree. RV frames may or may not have a path to ground - in any event not one I would stake my life on. It should become apparent which method of bonding (or grounding)is the safest for the majority of RVers.

I certainly am not trying to scare anyone. I personally do not know of any deaths recently involving use of a portable genset and an RV. But, we all know of folks who have gotten a good shock at one time or other.

One of my points is that a RV is not wired like your house. A RV is wired like an appliance. Therefore, the safety rules and issues change.

Now, that said, it is up to the folks on this forum to draw their own conclusions based on who and what they see as credible and potentially dangerous.

I am definately not here to argue (I doubt that you are either). I am here to share, compare and learn. (I feel that I have learned more than I have given on this forum.) If I am wrong someone needs convince me why. I need to see a scenario that shows why neutral bonding to the frame on a portable genset used with a RV is safer than letting the neutral float and bonding the frame to earth ground.

Mr. Professor95

I'm learning some things. First the 95 part. I did question what that concerned. Late congrat's with the DOCTORATE. Along with all this, you do have a great flow of the King's english. Grounding. I only wish there was a simple answer as to a less risky wiring a genset installed on a factory genset tray. That white and the uncovered copper wires I now know there seems to be disagreement on there use. I kinda understand but the bare copper wire(known to me to be used as a safty) To the best of my memory it was unused in the wiring coming from the old Onan to the junction box. This concerned me. Out in the Philippines there are no safety measures, none. Two live wires are stroung everywhere 220v with no ground wire (common or uncommon) They use the ground as a ground. Well just touch a refrigerator barefooted and feel the zap, I did several times. It never killed anyone to my knowledge, however this knowledge is limited. From what you have taught us I understand to be completely safe, the RV frame needs to be grounded (bonded) to mother earth and the RV properly wired as in a house. Ground, nuteral and hot. Around water a GFCI type plug. Now the GFCI RV thing ( for lack of a better word) how does it work? Maybe you could write one of those DUMMY books for us RV"ers

Floyd

[professor95]

subcamper wrote:
Also, since it appears an AVR failure could result in a much higher output voltage, what would be the best way to clamp the output to a non-destructive level? I imagine some sort of crowbar circuit to blow a fuse would work.

The probability of a higher voltage from a failed AVR is very low. In most cases, I believe you will see a voltage drop or no voltage. I can tell you that in playing around with the voltage range available by turning the AVR adjustment screw, 150 volts seems to be the max you can get out of the genset when wired for 120. While that is higher than normal, it is not high enough to do wholesale destruction to your RV and related appliances. Incandesent 120 volt light bulbs would get brighter and burn out sooner at 150 volts. Your air conditioner should accept the higher voltage and just pull a little less amperage. Of course, long term use at 150 volts is not a good idea for any 120 volt rated appliance.

My take is not to worry too much about it.

[subcamper]

I bought the champion genset last year and have used it a few time sthis year while camping. Given the potential (but not common) failure issue of the AVR, it might be a good idea to carry a spare. Does anyone know how much a spare AVR would cost?

Also, since it appears an AVR failure could result in a much higher output voltage, what would be the best way to clamp the output to a non-destructive level? I imagine some sort of crowbar circuit to blow a fuse would work.

Steve

[professor95]

vpkiljan wrote:

Hello Professor95, You're certainly right about there not being agreement. I reached just the opposite conclusions after reading the article in the IMSA Journal at this link

http://www.imsasafety.org/journal/marapr/ma5.htm

or click HERE.

These are the guys whose job it is to hook up emergency power supplies in the field during civil disasters. To me, that gives their views a fair amount of credibility.

(TEXT SNIPPED)

I've never read the NEC and don't plan to. But, to me, the basic principals seem plain enough: the neutral should be connected to the ground wire at a single point (and only at a single point) in every electrical hookup--portable or residential. And, that parallel currents flowing in the neutral and the ground wires of any circuit are a hazard.

IMSA Safety Journal wrote:
What About Portable and Vehicle-Mounted Generators?

Portable generators are covered in Section 250.34 Portable and Vehicle-Mounted Generators. This section allows the generator or vehicle frame to serve as the grounding electrode when:
(1) The generator supplies only equipment mounted on the generator, cord-and-plug-connected equipment through receptacles mounted on the generator, or both, and
(2) The non–current-carrying metal parts of equipment and the equipment grounding conductor terminals of the receptacles are bonded to the generator frame.

Caution-Generator Neutral Grounding
Generators will often have the neutral conductor bonded to the generator frame. This is commonly done on small portable generators supplied with receptacles. [Illustration 3]
Larger generators with a cord supplied pin and sleeve connector typically do not have the neutral grounded to the frame. There is no industry standard for when the neutral is or is not grounded, however it seems to be dependant on the generator having receptacles mounted on the frame, as then the neutral is grounded to the generator frame. The generator user needs to know if the neutral is grounded or not.

If the generator neutral is grounded then the generator can only be used with a transfer switch that transfers the neutral, or as a stand alone generator for a carnival or special even, and then ground rods are required.

Yep, been there and read that. Thought about it a lot too......

Credibility? Yes, I agree they should be very knowledgeable and know what they are talking about. But, so were our guys who declared Iraq had WMDs and the engineers who said the bridge in Minneapolis that just collapsed was safe.

I'm just an old semi-retired bloke (61) with an ancient BS in EE from the 70's. I hold a Master Electrician license and have a bunch of other electronic and electrical certificates hanging on the wall in my office around a sheepskin declaring I finally finished my doctorate in education in 1995 (now you know where professor95 comes from). After 31+ years of full-time teaching of both HS students and adult professionals the finer points of technology/electronics/electricity I now amuse myself by continuing to teach some electronics and EE courses at a local technical college, doing stuff to and with my RV (much of it electrical related), spending time with the most understanding and fantastic woman in the world (my wife), messing with little sports cars and even staying awake some nights trying in vain to figure out why so many so called experts can't seem to get things right.

I am in total agreement with your final statement ("parallel currents flowing in the neutral and the ground wires of any circuit are a hazard"). I am still adamant that portable generators plugged into Recreational Vehicles with a 30 amp 120 volt power connection should NOT have the generator neutral bonded to the generator frame unless both the RV frame and generator frame are also physically and independently bonded to a good earth ground. The later does not happen very often.

Run the possible scenarios that can occur when an electrical fault occurs with a portable genset and RV - both with and without neutral bonding and grounding. Portable gensets are set on the ground, truck beds, in/on the RV and maybe even hung from a tree. RV frames may or may not have a path to ground - in any event not one I would stake my life on. It should become apparent which method of bonding (or grounding)is the safest for the majority of RVers.

I certainly am not trying to scare anyone. I personally do not know of any deaths recently involving use of a portable genset and an RV. But, we all know of folks who have gotten a good shock at one time or other.

One of my points is that a RV is not wired like your house. A RV is wired like an appliance. Therefore, the safety rules and issues change.

Now, that said, it is up to the folks on this forum to draw their own conclusions based on who and what they see as credible and potentially dangerous.

I am definately not here to argue (I doubt that you are either). I am here to share, compare and learn. (I feel that I have learned more than I have given on this forum.) If I am wrong someone needs to convince me why. I need to see a scenario that shows why neutral bonding to the frame on a portable genset used with a RV is safer than letting the neutral float and bonding the frame to earth ground.

[toprudder]

Old & Slow wrote:
It's hell trying to find something interesting to fill my day at this point in life.

LOL. 🙂

Three ways it could get hot (besides creating the heat itself): Conduction, radiation, and convection. Moving it outside to a good location should reduce two of the three for sure.

[Old___Slow]

jpkiljan wrote:

professor95 wrote:

. . .
I know we have had the bonding/grounding discussion before on this forum and agreement seems to evade the group. Even our Northern neighbors have code regulations that require the designated neutral on a genset to be bonded to the frame. I am adamant that this practice is not safe for a portable genset used with an RV (it is OK for connection to a residental power system).
. . .

Hello Professor95, You're certainly right about there not being agreement. I reached just the opposite conclusions after reading the article in the IMSA Journal at this link

http://www.imsasafety.org/journal/marapr/ma5.htm

or click HERE.

These are the guys whose job it is to hook up emergency power supplies in the field during civil disasters. To me, that gives their views a fair amount of credibility. Sorry, but I don't remember who to give credit to for originally posting that article to this group.

This assumes, as you did in a later post, that the neutral and ground are not bonded together inside the RV. They are not in my MH; but, of course, they could be in other people's RV's. For my RV, and probably many others, it certainly looks like IMSA is saying that the Canadians have got it right when running an RV off of a generator--the generator frame and the power socket's neutral should be bonded together.

This also assumes that you are using the generator to connect to the residential wiring with a transfer switch that does not switch the neutral connection. Apparently, that is the most common kind of low-amperage transfer switch. In that case the IMSA article is saying that generator frame should not be bonded to the neutral since it will leave you with currents flowing through both the neutral and the ground wire into the house.

I've never read the NEC and don't plan to. But, to me, the basic principals seem plain enough: the neutral should be connected to the ground wire at a single point (and only at a single point) in every electrical hookup--portable or residential. And, that parallel currents flowing in the neutral and the ground wires of any circuit are a hazard.

--John[/quote


This is all quite far out of field. I will ask a question knowing there will be a question. You don't know for sure how my Itasca MH is wired. The question anyway. I have three wires in my junction box used by the factory to wire the old Onan. One white, one black and of course the unprotected copper wire. As I remember the copper wire in the junction was not attached to anything. All I want to do is wire using 12g, I think it's call romax, a link of about two feet between this box and my Champ genset. I have the wire I'm going to use attached to the RV plug I bought at HD like this. Looking at the front where the cap was removed to the right side I attached the white wire to the prong and on the left side prong the black. This is the pattern I found in the RV socket where you plug into with the RV power cord. Anyway I don't know anything about this unprotected copper wire in the genset junction box (not being in use) then there still remains this white ground wire that is floating around in my head. Ok guys, I should call a (qualified) electrician to do the job, however, I would like to think with the help of this thread, the job can be done by myself. Grounding, where is the END. To what is it attached? I may go out of this world unattached to the GROUND.

Floyd

[Old___Slow]

toprudder, which ever way the wind blows, I am convinced the relocation of my AVR was a good move. It was fastened metal to metal in the genhead giving some heat transfer from the muffler. I continue to believe moving the AVR, in some way, will give a possible increase in the air flow through the genhead. Just my idea, not conclusive. Maybe this is a exercise of no fruitatily (not a good word I just looked it up in the dictionary) but it gave me something to do with my time. It's hell trying to find something interesting to fill my day at this point in life.

Floyd

[toprudder]

hbski wrote:
Uhh, on mine it draws air in that end cap and expells it out near the front downward and toward the back. This flow pattern was confirmed by champion when I e-mailed them about the generator air flows at a time when I did not have access to mine, but was working on my enclosure design. Once I had access I started it up and indeed confirmed that it draws air in that endcap. This information was pivotal in my enclosure design.

I don't have a Champion, but on the two generators that I do have the air is drawn into the end cap and blows out of the genhead close to the engine, as you say. The impellor that I can see in one of the generators is a centrifugal type, no way it could force air back through the genhead and out through the endcap. I can't imagine why Champion would choose to reverse the direction.