3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[MrWizard]

i bought 2 champion generators, first the 1500, and then the RV ready from Kragen auto, both where un-opened boxes, neither had any damage, both worked perfectly
the 3500 Rv did develop a problem and championed replaced the unit, and the replacement has performed flawlessly, I haven't keep count, but it does seem the majority of customers reporting problems on this board, where units damaged in transit to HOMES and bought thru parts america, it would seem that their shipping dept & freight company UPS ? has done a less than stellar job, in that regard

[Wgeorge11]

The good, the bad, and the ugly.
The good is I finally was able to fire up a Champion after returning two damaged units. My wife started it on the second pull and we let it run a while. Added the AC, then the microwave without a hiccup. It easily handled the running AC and a 1.5K cube heater. The mechanics, while tinny, seemed sound enough. PartsAmerica was very helpful, answering questions and exchanging two damaged units without question. The units are boxed and shipped, unopened, to the buyer. They are heavy and get banged around a lot from China to PA.
The bad is the broken plastic, bent muffler mounts, and fuel leaks at the fuel cock/tank junction. All three units I received had the back of the control box broken. Apparently the engine bounces on its mounts and smacks into the box.
Two of the units had bent gen/muffler brackets and heat shields. The manufacturer could limit these issues by bolting the engine down solidly for shipping.
And then there's the fuel leaks. All three units leaked fuel from the fuel cock/tank connection. I have taped, gunked, and, in one case, tightened until breaking the white metal shaft. The current unit weeps but doesn't drip fuel; an improvement. I'm sure others have had a similar problem and wonder how they solved it?
So, I've got my wheels on, my hour meter wired in (to the 12v output), batteries charged, and all systems are go ... for the boonies. I've put my faith in the advice from all the pros out there, and trust roughing it won't be too rough.

[MrWizard]

buttsdad wrote:
Well I took the new Champion to where I have my TT stored and tried it out. Unfortunately it did not start the a/c. I walked over to the on sight rv shop and spoke with the mechanic. He came over took one look at the generator and said that it should run all the electrics. Turned on the a/c and the compressor comes on but not the fan. He thinks that I may have a problem with the fan.

I turned on the electric hot water heater and the microwave-no problem.

The a/c worked fine the last time I used it. Ir was plugged into a 30amp service at the campground.

Oh well will have to wait and see

do you have fan only mode, try switching to fan and run the fan 5-10 minutes, to bring down the compressor head pressure, then switch to cool without going thru the off position

this takes the fan start out of the circuit and reduces the compressor start on a warm day

[LLeopold]

V10 man, I forgot. I'll be in the Phoenix/Gilbert area in June if you want me to stop by and check your work (or take you up on that beer). It'll take all of 15 minutes.

[backin15]

V10 man wrote:
I have a Power Pro from PepBoys. I want to do the conversion that is on page 96 of this thread. thread It looks simple enough. My question is, on the 4 prong (ex 220V outlet) which prong is what? Do I need to do anything here to get the full 30a? Right now I use the twistlock plug with one hot, neutral and ground for 120V. Do I still use one hot or do I join the 2 hots together? If only one hot which one? Thanks so much. Anyone in Phoenix area wanna mod my generator for beer?? :B

The mod is actually very easy to do, especially if you have the right size nut driver. But if you don't mind waiting until January or February I'd be happy to do it for you for a beer if you fly me in!
As you look at the outlet the upper left is white, the upper right is black and the lower right (the one with the L shaped prong) is ground. The lower left will not be used.

[LLeopold]

One thing I learned while doing my project was my A/C was drawing a LOT of amperage upon initial start up. This initially caused the original circuit breaker that came with the generator (1-15,1-20Amp CB tied together) to trip and, looking at the A/C guide for the Coleman Mach 3, the initial current draw could be as high as 14.3 Amps during startup (data sheet). I'll have to obtain a clamp meter to find the actual current draw, since Harbor Freight is just a couple of miles from my home.

I learned apparently in an effort to save money for the RV manufacturers, Coleman deleted the starting capacitor from its rooftop A/C units, since most of the time the air conditioner will start without it. If the power is poor, the unit old, or if it has been sitting idle it may not start without stalling the generator or blowing a campground circuit breaker.

Southern California, along the coast, never really gets to the point where an A/C is needed until mid-summer, and then only for a few days, so my personal usage of the A/C has been limited to maybe 8-10 days out of the year. I do run it once a month for about a half-hour just to keep the parts alive, but during the project, I found that, sure enough, no starting capacitor (it would be inside the rooftop cover near the starting motor).

Coleman has a Hard Start Kit, which is a motor starting capacitor and relay and provides the extra boost to start a lazy motor and, of course Camping World carries it.

With my replacing the internal (15/20 Amp) CB with an external 30 Amp CB ($30.00) /vs/ the hard start kit ($29.53), it would be a wash (I might still get one, though).

I really learned a lot more about my FW along the way with this project.

[buttsdad]

Well I took the new Champion to where I have my TT stored and tried it out. Unfortunately it did not start the a/c. I walked over to the on sight rv shop and spoke with the mechanic. He came over took one look at the generator and said that it should run all the electrics. Turned on the a/c and the compressor comes on but not the fan. He thinks that I may have a problem with the fan.

I turned on the electric hot water heater and the microwave-no problem.

The a/c worked fine the last time I used it. Ir was plugged into a 30amp service at the campground.

Oh well will have to wait and see

[V10_man]

I have a Power Pro from PepBoys. I want to do the conversion that is on page 96 of this thread. thread It looks simple enough. My question is, on the 4 prong (ex 220V outlet) which prong is what? Do I need to do anything here to get the full 30a? Right now I use the twistlock plug with one hot, neutral and ground for 120V. Do I still use one hot or do I join the 2 hots together? If only one hot which one? Thanks so much. Anyone in Phoenix area wanna mod my generator for beer?? :B

[buttsdad]

I just bought a Champion 4000. Unpacked it and put oil in in and a bit of gas pulled the cord once and it fired up. I let it run the suggested 10 minutes and shut it off. Put it in the back of the pick up and will take it to try it out on the TT (Pilgrim) in the morning.

I currently have a Power Pro Model 3500 and it will not turn over the a/c. The a/c on the Pilgrim is 15,000btu. It would , however, turn over a 13,500 btu a/c.

My wife does not agree with me, but I think that the Champion is quieter than the Power Pro.

I'm hoping that the 30amp rv circuit and a bit more juice will make me a happy(ier) camper. Will know tomorrow.

[MrWizard]

coachk34 wrote:
Im having a hard time deciding what I want to do on the generator situation. Ive been reading here for over a year and really like the champion. My only concern is that I will be using it most for tailgating at football games with many other rv'ers and on concrete. What type of material could I use to sit the champion on to avoid some of the noise caused by being on concrete or blacktop? Also, is is true the parts america coupon ends at the end the month?

you could try a sheet/ half sheet of that sound abatement board like lleopold used inside his enclosure , just place it on the concrete and set the genny in the middle this would absorb the sound going down instead of bouncing it of the concrete

[LLeopold]

Hmmmm. That's not a bad idea. I've read in this section that others have moved the mufflers (or even upgraded to a small car muffler), and the gas tank can be easily removed to access the muffler.... That would certainly alleviate the heat as that is where the highest temps are based on my measurements. I wonder what my wife will think now that I told her the project was "done?" :B

BTW, if you're planning to attend "The Rally" in July, I'll be in the RV.NET booth and would be happy to share the results first hand. I'll be RVing there and using the set up on-site.

[Oldfordman]

LLeopold wrote:
Tony and I did discuss making more vent holes (or making them larger), and what I would do is build a baffle out of sound board and attach it to the "ceiling" of the box. The only question is would the air flow still be high enough to keep the temps low.

The 140 degrees target came from the owner's manual that had caution statements that the unit would produce heat at and over 150 degrees (to keep hands and other items away from the unit). Before the project even started, I took some measurements right at the exhaust area and measured temperatures in excess of 200 degrees near the muffler and the rear of the unit near the muffler. The engine "compartment" between the engine and the gas tank were 160-170 degrees.

I figured that if I could keep the exhaust end of the box near 140 degrees, that would mean that the air flow was sufficient to keep the exhaust area and the "compartment" area at their normal operating temperatures.

I think I accomplished that with Tony's advice. The next "addition" might be a remote thermometer, or even better a high temp. cut-off switch that I would set to, say, 200 degrees or less.

Have you also considered moving the muffler out of the enclosure? The exhaust is not a great source of noise but a large source of heat. Extend the exhaust pipe and wrap it with the same insulating tape that is used on custom motorcycles. Same tape on outside of muffler would reduce what little noise might be transmitted by it's shell.

[coachk34]

Im having a hard time deciding what I want to do on the generator situation. Ive been reading here for over a year and really like the champion. My only concern is that I will be using it most for tailgating at football games with many other rv'ers and on concrete. What type of material could I use to sit the champion on to avoid some of the noise caused by being on concrete or blacktop? Also, is is true the parts america coupon ends at the end the month?

[FulltimeDreamer]

eightballsidepocket wrote:

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
Eightball - the UST has been on this thread (somewhere) before.
As I recall, the UST brand is good - think it was a replacement
for the Elim? previously carried by Pep Boys (which had problems).

Supposedly Champion does not re-badge. Guess it could
have the same Chinese engine.

Thank you for the info on the UST.

Am I correct in my observations that the UST3500 as sold by Pep Boys is not equipped with the 30 amp receptacle when compared to the Champ 4000 sold through Chucker/Kragen's, Coast and other distributors?

It just looks that way from the website provided by a member a few posts back.

I have one of the UST3000s from Pep Boys. I have had it for about 1.5 years. It did not have an RV recepticle on it, but it did have all the power going to a 30 Amp twist/lock recepticle. It came with a plug for this recepticle which I added a female RV plug to. I did not have to rewire the generator as all the power (25 Amps) is supplied to the single twist lock recepticle. I cannot speak to the current generation of UST generators, but I have been very happy with mine. Here is a link to my website with pictures. Genertor Link

[eightballsidepo]

LiveOnLocation wrote:

MrWizard wrote:

Ctrl-Z wrote:
Simple question I think - does anyone know if the Champion C46540 is available for sale in Canada?

my memory might be off, but i seem to remember that costco in Canada is carrying them

Costco in Canada carries the C46535, the unit does not have a 30A RV plug. Regretfully.

Bummer!