3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[triplej]

Hot Rod Cummins wrote:
I have a Wen Power Pro from pepboys and it does a voltage selection switch. I havnt used much at all but so far it has done well and I have not tested the 120V outlet for full amperage yet but it did run the AC on the RV for 10 minutes which is all I had time for.
If I could figure out how to post a pic I would do so.

I have some pics of mine as well. I tried to post them, but can't figure out how to do it either. If someone will let me know, I will post them.

[professor95]

Navychop wrote:
Hmmmm- My electronics education continues

Yep. Consider the following direct quote from Fundamentals of Electronics: DC/AC Circuits. This is a textbook I use for two of my first year CEET classes.

"When a technician inserts a polarized capacitor into a circuit, it is important that the positive side of the capacitor be connected to the more positive terminal of the circuit. If a polarized capacitor is inserted backwards, then it is very likely to explode violently."

"Since a polarized capacitor must always have the correct voltage polarity across it, you should never connect a polarized capacitor to an AC source."

And yes, I have seen these suckers explode. Larger ones, like a polarized 22uf/400 volt unit go off like a 12 gauge shotgun shell.

Many electronics supply sources will have polarized (electrolytic) capacitors that fall into the range of the non-polarized capacitors that are used as part of the regulator circuit in a lot of these Chinese generators. These polarized capacitors are found predominately in (older) brute force power supplies for tube type equipment. A non-polarized value in this range is not common to Radio, TV or consumer electronics and it is not likely that you will find one in an electronics supply store. About the max you will get there in a non-polarized is a .5 uf at 600 volt "dipped" cap.

Don't try this experiment at home.

[Hot_Rod_Cummins]

I have a Wen Power Pro from pepboys and it does a voltage selection switch. I havnt used much at all but so far it has done well and I have not tested the 120V outlet for full amperage yet but it did run the AC on the RV for 10 minutes which is all I had time for.
If I could figure out how to post a pic I would do so.

[professor95]

I just bought a Pepboys 3500 gen set today. I called them, and they said I don't need to rewire it. (I have read many treads about rewiring them.) They tell me that I only need to make a pig tail to go on the 4 prong twist plug and switch the voltage switch from 120 to 240 and plug it into the twist plug in. Does this sound right?? (there are 2 120 plugs on the front and one twist lock plug. between them is a toggle switch to pick which ones you will use.

No, it does not sound right. But, if your generator has a voltage switch it is possible that what they told you "might" work with the switch in the 120 position - but only if the switch does not disconnect the 220 outlet as some models do. I guess I am getting confused with all these models..... I don't remember the Pep Boys WEN3500 having a voltage switch. I know the USG does. Better let someone else who has one of these jump in here with more info. Until then, be cautious of what the sales people at Pep Boys tell you.

[triplej]

triplej wrote:
I just bought a Pepboys 3500 gen set today. I called them, and they said I don't need to rewire it. (I have read many treads about rewiring them.) They tell me that I only need to make a pig tail to go on the 4 prong twist plug and switch the voltage switch from 120 to 240 and plug it into the twist plug in. Does this sound right?? (there are 2 120 plugs on the front and one twist lock plug. between them is a toggle switch to pick which ones you will use.

Pepboys told me that once I put gas in it, I can't take it back. They also have the UST TG 3000 there, but the Pepboy guy said that they have more returns on them.

I went ahead and tried it out. The Wen PP 3500 started on first pull. Ran fine with a 12amp blower, electric skillet, 4 amp spot light, going at same time. I hooked up a volt meeter, and it showed 120 volt, but I couldn't get it to show how many amps.

Thanks everyone!

[triplej]

Quote: What brand and model is it?


It is a Power Pro 3500. Manual says it will operate at 12.5a or 25a

[spectre]

professor95,
Thanks for the info. Great Lakes Tool Company sells parts for the Nikotas so I am hopeful it is the right one. I will check when I get it. this is one of the best forums I have ever seen to help the average person. I am in the a/c business and have a little knowledge but I have learned a lot just reading some of the information that has been posted here. I bought a Nikota from Costco and it seems to a lot better since I can get full load out of it. And it has a warranty.

[Alohatraveler]

professor95 wrote:

saw a power maximizer 30-15 adaptor & your drawings in this thread. It sounds like you don't think the Champion is compatable with those. How can I tell without taking it apart before buying it?

From the picture I have of it, it looks like there are 2 220v receptacles & 2 110v recptacles. As an option, can I replace & rewire one of the 220 recptacles with a 30amp RV recetacle leaving my 110v recptacles free for other use if needed?

It is not compatable with the Maximizer as sold.

You should make a fairly simple internal wiring change to allow full wattage at 120 volts to a single outlet.


Since page numbers for back postings on this forum do not seem to be consistent, go to "Advanced Search" and select "Sonic1954" as the author and "Tech Issues" as the forum. Look for a posting from Sonic1954 on 11/02/05. You will find complete instructions with photos for the wiring conversion/change. Follow them, you will be pleased with the results.

Professor95,
Again, many thanks for all your information, advice & recommendations. Based on your information & that of Clapp75 on page 170 regarding Champion coming out with the model with the RV recpectacle around March, I am going to wait & buy that model. If I see the need to get one earlier I may just make an adapter based on the following Champion website FAQ (www.championpowerequipment.com) or follow Sonic1954's instruction.

I went to the Champion website & found this in the FAQ's, which could make things easier without going into the generator:

FAQ " I have an RV with a 3 blade plug-in but I can't connect it to the twist-lock receptacle on the generator. (3500w. generators)

Since our generators may have either one or two twist-lock connectors, you may find the need to purchase separately the correct plug for your generator. If you have a generator with two twist-lock connectors built in, then you would use a plug with NEMA (National Electrical Manufacturers Assn.) no. L5-30P (3 blade). The receptacle on the generator has the mating female blade holes for entry. Your wiring would be only 3 wires that would include a ground, a neutral and a black lead from an interface cord that would plug into the TV receptacle plug.

If your generator has only the 120v/240v outlet, then you must use a NEMA plug no. L14-30P for your application. This plug can be wired for 120v or 240v applications. When using your RV as an application, you would obtain an RV connector plug for the RV end. This would be wired as using only 3 of the 4 blades on the L14-30P plug. The L-shaped blade is the ground. Directly opposite from the ground blade is the neutral blade and each of the other two blades are the hot blades. The hot blades are each 120v. Using only one of the hot blades will give you the 3 wire configuration you will need for the RV application. Using 4 blades would allow the 240v to be configured. DO NOT attach both 120v hot blades together at any time. Doing this will void your warranty and damage both generator and your appliance from excessive voltage. If in doubt at any time, please call our 24hr. technical line at (626) 230-5248. You will receive a quick response to your questions.

Note - When using the 4 blade plug-in for your 3 blade RV connection, it is possible to pick the hot blade that may only be breakered with a 15A circuit breaker. If this is the case, you can identify it by visually seeing the R/H breaker popping out of the dash panel. It will cool and can be pushed in to reset. If this happens, you need to change the hot wire to the other unused terminal of the L14-30P plug. You will now be connected with a 20 amp breaker which is the L/H on of the pair next to the ignition switch. "

Can't wait for March to roll around!

[Skibane]

triplej wrote:
I just bought a Pepboys 3500 gen set today.

What brand and model is it?

[triplej]

I just bought a Pepboys 3500 gen set today. I called them, and they said I don't need to rewire it. (I have read many treads about rewiring them.) They tell me that I only need to make a pig tail to go on the 4 prong twist plug and switch the voltage switch from 120 to 240 and plug it into the twist plug in. Does this sound right?? (there are 2 120 plugs on the front and one twist lock plug. between them is a toggle switch to pick which ones you will use.

Pepboys told me that once I put gas in it, I can't take it back. They also have the UST TG 3000 there, but the Pepboy guy said that they have more returns on them.

[Navychop]

Hmmmm- My electronics education continues.

[professor95]

I found the capacitor at Great Lakes Tool Company. Cost is $10.00. I am going to get this thing running and sell it.

Please be sure what you purchased is a non-polarized capacitor. Substituting a polarized electrolytic in it's place could have disastrous results. A polarized electrolytic used for this application can blow up with tremendous force and spew pieces of aluminum and dialectic all over the place.

If you are not sure, look for (+) and (-) markings on the capacitor, or just a (-). If the markings are present - DO NOT USE IT. Most likely what you purchased is OK considering the source is a tool company rather than an electronics supply.

[spectre]

I found the capacitor at Great Lakes Tool Company. Cost is $10.00. I am going to get this thing running and sell it. The older Nikotas arent real good for running the travel trailer. It will run the a/c but that is it. One thing at a time. Green Acres style.

[professor95]

saw a power maximizer 30-15 adaptor & your drawings in this thread. It sounds like you don't think the Champion is compatable with those. How can I tell without taking it apart before buying it?

From the picture I have of it, it looks like there are 2 220v receptacles & 2 110v recptacles. As an option, can I replace & rewire one of the 220 recptacles with a 30amp RV recetacle leaving my 110v recptacles free for other use if needed?

It is not compatable with the Maximizer as sold.

You should make a fairly simple internal wiring change to allow full wattage at 120 volts to a single outlet.


Since page numbers for back postings on this forum do not seem to be consistent, go to "Advanced Search" and select "Sonic1954" as the author and "Tech Issues" as the forum. Look for a posting from Sonic1954 on 11/02/05. You will find complete instructions with photos for the wiring conversion/change. Follow them, you will be pleased with the results.

[spectre]

I will try mouser and digikey. I tried allied electronics and no luck. Thanks for the help.