3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[bill_h]

joelchappell wrote:
Well I took my Champion back to Costco today. Couldn't deal with it.

The testing I showed earlier with my db meter reading 72 db was flawed. It was 72db unloaded. It read nearly 80db under load. I can't believe it. I tried everything.

The noise was a clatter. The exhaust was quiet.

Joel, your readings are similar to mine with a meter that gets checked against FAA-certified meters yearly. Open frame generators of that type, Chinese or not (even Hondas) read in the mid '70s when powering a TV or charger. When a microwave or AC is turned on the meter goes up a little, but the exhaust bark gets quite a bit sharper.

This is not meant to be a bash of Champions or Chinese, as I have measured open-frame Hondas at the same range. I mean complete Japan-made Hondas, not just with a Honda engine.

[professor95]

Joel,

You said you returned the generator to a local Costco? In the Jacksonville area, I assume?

One of two things will happen to that generator. It will either be field destroyed or returned to CPE for repair/refurbishing and resold in Mexico without a Champion label.

I have alerted Paul Cole at CPE of the situation. Hopefully, Paul will be able to get hold of your returned generator for examination. I would like to know what the "deal" is/was with that machine.

You don't by any chance have a record of the serial number, or the address of the Costco where you returned it, do you? This would be helpful in getting that specific generator back to CPE.

[Old___Slow]

Joel,

Please don't feel bad in your finding, ears are important. What we hear is what we hear. Loud is Loud. The meter proves the point. Now, on your comment about DuroPower, I have owned the DP3500EC DuroPower (electric start) with good sussess and it comes from JD, some what different than the Champion. All indications from the parts list my Champion C46540, the parts seems to say, they all came from various vindors and not milled, shaped, formed or whatever in a Champion exclusive factory. But, there is a difference in Lifan (Chmapion?) and JD (DuroPower). JD and Lifan are said to be, the two biggest builders of Chinese engines and other parts. So all Chinese true mfg differ somewhat, one to the other.
Now, the valve train, that is a good question.

Anyway, DuroPower has added the side sound lowering panels. Their 3500 Electric Start/Remote Control and at $399 to the door
aint to bad.

[joelchappell]

professor95 wrote:

joelchappell wrote:
Well I took my Champion back to Costco today. Couldn't deal with it.

The testing I showed earlier with my db meter reading 72 db was flawed. It was 72db unloaded. It read nearly 80db under load. I can't believe it. I tried everything.

The noise was a clatter. The exhaust was quiet. I am going to have to do something else I guess. I hope you others that are getting the new Champion will post here and tell us how yours is. Maybe mine had something wrong with it?

That's 2. The Lifan was quiet, but had been damaged in shipping (or something) and I can't find another one with electric start.

I am really down about this. It ran great. The remote start was fantastic. But it was just so loud.

Please weigh in with additional info as you all receive yours.

Thanks.

Joel,

Sorry to hear of the troubles. It all has me scratching my head because the Lifan and Champion have the same basic engine design and muffler. Virtually all of the 200GX type Chinese open frame synchronous generators have identical sound ratings. I can't really comment on the clatter since i was not there, but from your description it really does not sound like what I have encountered.

My new unit is suppose to be here tomorrow according to FED-X tracking. I will be doing a considerable amount of testing and will be sure to include a video clip with audio - which I know we have one example already. I'll also do some dB readings. No tricks - real readings. I don't even get 80 dB from my 13 HP 380 cc Champion 7,200 watt genny I use for power outage back-up -- and I consider it way too loud to ever consider for a camping genny!

Something has got to be wrong somewhere. Of course, no meter can replace the human ear. If it sounds too loud to you then it will obviously sound too loud to your neighbors.

I totally agree, and I'm not into tricks either. All of my readings were with a Sound Level Meter set to A weighting. I posted video of it unloaded and it was solidly at 72db at 21 feet.

I also agree that while the meter is accurate, the ears tell all. It's still unbelievable to me that it was that loud. I guess I didn't see any point in trying to run down a replacement as there wasn't anything actually wrong with it.

For anyone who is experienced with VW's this will put the sound level in perspective. With the Champion mounted in my box on my front hitch, windows up, cruising down the highway at 60 mph, I could no longer hear the bus engine. Only the genny. (Normal driving in a bus at 60 will cause you to raise your voice to speak the the passenger next to you).

You could not stand next to it with it running and have a conversation without almost yelling. Meter or not that is crazy loud. It really seemed like it was something in the valve train?

It is mind boggling because I, as you and many others, have spent hours and hours studying these generators and how they are made and there is very little difference between any of them.

The exception seems to be the Duropower with the insulated side panels. But the Champions, Lifans, Workhorse, Powerland, Gentron, All Power and several others look like they could have been made in the same room. Both the Champion and the Lifan have the 196cc motor and are open frame.

I almost would like to order another one, but I am waiting to see if others have a similar experience as mine, or if they check in and call me crazy (which I will gladly accept).

Anyway, I sure enjoy the information and contributions of folks on this thread. Helps to go through it with other like-minded people.

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:

joelchappell wrote:
Well I took my Champion back to Costco today. Couldn't deal with it.

The testing I showed earlier with my db meter reading 72 db was flawed. It was 72db unloaded. It read nearly 80db under load. I can't believe it. I tried everything.

The noise was a clatter. The exhaust was quiet. I am going to have to do something else I guess. I hope you others that are getting the new Champion will post here and tell us how yours is. Maybe mine had something wrong with it?

That's 2. The Lifan was quiet, but had been damaged in shipping (or something) and I can't find another one with electric start.

I am really down about this. It ran great. The remote start was fantastic. But it was just so loud.

Please weigh in with additional info as you all receive yours.

Thanks.

Joel,

Sorry to hear of the troubles.

Snip

Something has got to be wrong somewhere. Of course, no meter can replace the human ear. If it sounds too loud to you then it will obviously sound too loud to your neighbors.

And I agree.

[professor95]

joelchappell wrote:
Well I took my Champion back to Costco today. Couldn't deal with it.

The testing I showed earlier with my db meter reading 72 db was flawed. It was 72db unloaded. It read nearly 80db under load. I can't believe it. I tried everything.

The noise was a clatter. The exhaust was quiet. I am going to have to do something else I guess. I hope you others that are getting the new Champion will post here and tell us how yours is. Maybe mine had something wrong with it?

That's 2. The Lifan was quiet, but had been damaged in shipping (or something) and I can't find another one with electric start.

I am really down about this. It ran great. The remote start was fantastic. But it was just so loud.

Please weigh in with additional info as you all receive yours.

Thanks.

Joel,

Sorry to hear of the troubles. It all has me scratching my head because the Lifan and Champion have the same basic engine design and muffler. Virtually all of the 200GX type Chinese open frame synchronous generators have identical sound ratings. I can't really comment on the clatter since i was not there, but from your description it really does not sound like what I have encountered.

My new unit is suppose to be here tomorrow according to FED-X tracking. I will be doing a considerable amount of testing and will be sure to include a video clip with audio - which I know we have one example already. I'll also do some dB readings. No tricks - real readings. I don't even get 80 dB from my 13 HP 380 cc Champion 7,200 watt genny I use for power outage back-up -- and I consider it way too loud to ever consider for a camping genny!

Something has got to be wrong somewhere. Of course, no meter can replace the human ear. If it sounds too loud to you then it will obviously sound too loud to your neighbors.

[professor95]

Wrace wrote:

Does the crane arm extend far enough out past the end of the lowered tailgate such that the gen can be slinged or snagged at its center balance point? If so what about the height of the lift arm when the gen is high enough to swing into the bed, is it likely too high to use in conjunction with a topper?

Thanks

I don't think the crane would work with a topper. If the topper hatch over the tailgate could be temporarily removed it would possibly work to set the genny on the tailgate.

Sorry I did not think of the topper being there. Sometimes I have trouble adding 2 + 2.

When I had a cap on my truck (before fifth wheel days) I would lift the genny with a ceiling mounted electric winch in the garage, set it on a rolling cart with a box on top to make it the same height of the truck tailgate and roll it to the back of the truck and onto the tailgate then into the truck.

A lot of steps and trouble, but it worked.

I hate to say it, but it really is beginning to sound like you need two 2000 watt inverter gennys with a parallel kit. You can lift and move the pair, but there is a pretty price tag attached. Still probably cheaper than a doctor and hospital bill for a ruptured disc trying to lift a 100# hunk by yourslf.

[Bluestreak]

joelchappell wrote:
Well I took my Champion back to Costco today. Couldn't deal with it.

The testing I showed earlier with my db meter reading 72 db was flawed. It was 72db unloaded. It read nearly 80db under load. I can't believe it. I tried everything.

The noise was a clatter. The exhaust was quiet. I am going to have to do something else I guess. I hope you others that are getting the new Champion will post here and tell us how yours is. Maybe mine had something wrong with it?

That's 2. The Lifan was quiet, but had been damaged in shipping (or something) and I can't find another one with electric start.

I am really down about this. It ran great. The remote start was fantastic. But it was just so loud.

Please weigh in with additional info as you all receive yours.

Thanks.

Joel, what a drag!

I hope others have a better experience. I ultimately decided that I needed ease of use over power and placed an order for a Honeywell 2000i.

(I have a warm spot in my heart for old type 2's...I had a '67 camper for many years and then a '71 camper for a couple...good luck with yours!)

[joelchappell]

Well I took my Champion back to Costco today. Couldn't deal with it.

The testing I showed earlier with my db meter reading 72 db was flawed. It was 72db unloaded. It read nearly 80db under load. I can't believe it. I tried everything.

The noise was a clatter. The exhaust was quiet. I am going to have to do something else I guess. I hope you others that are getting the new Champion will post here and tell us how yours is. Maybe mine had something wrong with it?

That's 2. The Lifan was quiet, but had been damaged in shipping (or something) and I can't find another one with electric start.

I am really down about this. It ran great. The remote start was fantastic. But it was just so loud.

Please weigh in with additional info as you all receive yours.

Thanks.

[SonicLogic]

professor95 wrote:
Absolutely nothing to do with Chinese Generators.

I seem to be infected with the most intrusive, unwanted advertising gimmick to hit this forum and thread since it began. It is called Kontera and puts certain words contained in the postings in blue and double underlines them similar to a user inserted link. When you mouse over the word an add pops up in your face.

I have tried all the hints I can find on the Internet to disable it. I have spyware and adware on the computer, but I still get the stuff. To me it is like an unwanted salesman forcing his way into your home.

Does anyone know how to turn the stuff off or get rid of it? PLEASE!!

Internet Explorer users can disable Kontera ads by adding the following to their restricted sites list. In IE, navigate to Tools, Internet Options on the menu, then select the Security Tab, select Restricted Sites, click 'Sites' button and add the following and reload your pages:

*.kontera.com


You might also desire to add these to the restricted sites list as well since they do the same thing (on other forums):

*.intellitxt.com
*.vibrantmedia.com

[Wrace]

professor95 wrote:

Couple of thoughts:

But, I suggest.... no, I BEG you to try this extremely simple and inexpensive sound enclosure.

I could try that, though it would need to be with the gen operating in the bed of the pickup with all or some windows on the topper open, maybe even tailgate down. I suspect you are correct with the heat concerns as it does get pretty toasty in there during the warm weather.

Do you have some suggestions on a method to use for testing whether the gen is running too hot in this situation? I can use the IR thermometer but where to take the reading on the unit? And how hot is too hot?

I've looked at those little bed mounted cranes before and they look like they would be handy for some applications. In my case particularly when I have to load/off-load the champion at our rural property and don't feel like dragging out the tractor or excavator to do so.

Does the crane arm extend far enough out past the end of the lowered tailgate such that the gen can be slinged or snagged at its center balance point? If so what about the height of the lift arm when the gen is high enough to swing into the bed, is it likely too high to use in conjunction with a topper?

Thanks

[tvman44]

Run FireFox with Ad Block Plus and you will not see it again. I like Firefox better than Internet Explorer. FireFox is a free download and so is AdBlock Plus.

[professor95]

Absolutely nothing to do with Chinese Generators.

I seem to be infected with the most intrusive, unwanted advertising gimmick to hit this forum and thread since it began. It is called Kontera and puts certain words contained in the postings in blue and double underlines them similar to a user inserted link. When you mouse over the word an add pops up in your face.

I have tried all the hints I can find on the Internet to disable it. I have spyware and adware on the computer, but I still get the stuff. To me it is like an unwanted salesman forcing his way into your home.

Does anyone know how to turn the stuff off or get rid of it? PLEASE!!

[W8NONU]

I received my 46538 yesterday. The 3-4 week estimate was actually 5 days. west coast to east coast. Thanks Champion.

[Old___Slow]

Prof,

Will look for the new gen, 'show and tell' on Monday. The last one was awesome. But, got to have that NEW RC/ES Champion riding on your Volvo tow truck. Picture needs to go on the front cover of all the affinity mags.

Floyd