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Battery Experts, Reconditioning vs Equalization??

3_tons
Explorer III
Explorer III
I Finally received my new B&D VEC 1093DBD charger yesterday but have found the user manual to be a bit Spartan, particularly with regards to how 'Reconditioning' (a pulsation mode - per manual, "lead sulfate, an insulator, begins to build-up on plates"), differs in objective from 'Equalization' (per manual, "voltage rises, but does not go over 15.3v to 16.2v, depending on ambient temp."), but without any additional user manual clarification. Though the two methods/strategies differ widely (pulsation vs higher voltage - equalization stirring of chemical soup), it seems to me, that with either methodology the objective of removing sulfate from the plates is the same...Just more bells and whistles??

3 tons
25 REPLIES 25

3_tons
Explorer III
Explorer III
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Sure glad WW II submarines had pulse desulfation technology. Oh wait, they didn't press a button to do that - when Japanese destroyers depth charged them the high frequency vibrations knocked all the sulfate off the plates, and maybe the plates too.

BATTERIES MUST SULFATE THE POSITIVE PLATE OR IT IS NOT A LEAD ACID BATTERY. When electrons flow the sulfur in SULFURic acid gets deposited on the positive plate. Got it? Natural, inevitable, and positively necessary. When sulfur is extracted from H2SO4 H2O is left which is lighter, less dense.

Sulfation coating is not an even wonderful patina on the positive plates. It is uneven, patchy, and nonuniform,the DENSER the sulfate the THICKER the sulfate, and the longer the sulfate remains on the positive plate the easier it is for the sulfur compound molecular structure is to "lattice". Interlock. Bind. Glue. Stick. Harden.

So it is like radiation. Intense short term is hazardous. Less intense long term is just as hazardous. Super deep discharging lays the sulfate on THICK. It also leaves very little REACTIVE COMPONENT left in the electrolyte to dissolve the sulfation and put it back into solution (recharging). When sulfate gets X microns "thick" on a plate it is a real bear to remove. Because in attempting to charge and remove latticed sulfation innocent bare positive plate material gets shedded by process of overheating and acid overprocessing because of high heat. You may see 120F electrolyte temperature while the plate may see 140F. It is insulated.

If the thought of playing a Pied Piper frequency tune to your batteries appeals to you, then you are the person you are trying to satisfy. Never attempt to screw with the tranquility of a satisfied customer.


Mex, yours is the Alpha and the Omega of straight-talking brevity! Complexities vastly reduced, nearly an entire semester of Battery Chemistry 101, distilled to only 5 concise paragraphs...Hear, Hear to the Great Communicator!!

Best Regards,

3 tons

westend
Explorer
Explorer
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Sure glad WW II submarines had pulse desulfation technology. Oh wait, they didn't press a button to do that - when Japanese destroyers depth charged them the high frequency vibrations knocked all the sulfate off the plates, and maybe the plates too.

BATTERIES MUST SULFATE THE POSITIVE PLATE OR IT IS NOT A LEAD ACID BATTERY. When electrons flow the sulfur in SULFURic acid gets deposited on the positive plate. Got it? Natural, inevitable, and positively necessary. When sulfur is extracted from H2SO4 H2O is left which is lighter, less dense.

Sulfation coating is not an even wonderful patina on the positive plates. It is uneven, patchy, and nonuniform,the DENSER the sulfate the THICKER the sulfate, and the longer the sulfate remains on the positive plate the easier it is for the sulfur compound molecular structure is to "lattice". Interlock. Bind. Glue. Stick. Harden.

So it is like radiation. Intense short term is hazardous. Less intense long term is just as hazardous. Super deep discharging lays the sulfate on THICK. It also leaves very little REACTIVE COMPONENT left in the electrolyte to dissolve the sulfation and put it back into solution (recharging). When sulfate gets X microns "thick" on a plate it is a real bear to remove. Because in attempting to charge and remove latticed sulfation innocent bare positive plate material gets shedded by process of overheating and acid overprocessing because of high heat. You may see 120F electrolyte temperature while the plate may see 140F. It is insulated.

If the thought of playing a Pied Piper frequency tune to your batteries appeals to you, then you are the person you are trying to satisfy. Never attempt to screw with the tranquility of a satisfied customer.

Good stuff, Mex.
FWIW, in '92 or so a guy showed up at my shop hawking the pulse reconditioning technology. He had a few ways to implement it, from dashboard mounted chips to fleet charging. He claimed to hold a patent on this process and had reams of paper with graphs and studies concluded that showed the process to add a large % to battery life (33%, IIRC). At that time, we were charging more than 800 batteries so longevity was of interest. We gave it some thought and concluded the price, even if it worked, was not worth it.

I am still at a loss as how a higher voltage delivered at low amperage in any sequence can make any material difference other than adding charge to the cells. The materials involved, lead, antimony, H2SO4, all have their electrons at a certain potential, interacting with each other in the presence of a charge voltage. How can the introduction of a small charge current, even if sequenced, significantly alter the state of the materials? I don't believe it can.
'03 F-250 4x4 CC
'71 Starcraft Wanderstar -- The Cowboy/Hilton

bob213
Explorer
Explorer
Roy Ken..if you can't find the Vector/Blk & Decker this one is rated as good if not better. I have the Blk/Decker but neighbor has this one and it works great and gets good reviews.
Battery charger
You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality โ€“ Ayn Rand

3_tons
Explorer III
Explorer III
RoyB wrote:
Just curious where you got the Black and Decker VEC1093DBD Portable 40AMP Charger from. Mine came from AMAZON and I notice they are listed as NOT AVAILABLE any more. I checked with another source that carried them in the past with the same results...

Hoping these chargers are NOT going out of production now... There is a bunch of us RV'ers that have them...

Roy Ken


Got mine here, took awhile as they were on back order.

http://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/black--decker-vec1093dbd-12-volt-40-amp-battery-charger.html

Best regards,

3 tons

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
Sure glad WW II submarines had pulse desulfation technology. Oh wait, they didn't press a button to do that - when Japanese destroyers depth charged them the high frequency vibrations knocked all the sulfate off the plates, and maybe the plates too.

BATTERIES MUST SULFATE THE POSITIVE PLATE OR IT IS NOT A LEAD ACID BATTERY. When electrons flow the sulfur in SULFURic acid gets deposited on the positive plate. Got it? Natural, inevitable, and positively necessary. When sulfur is extracted from H2SO4 H2O is left which is lighter, less dense.

Sulfation coating is not an even wonderful patina on the positive plates. It is uneven, patchy, and nonuniform,the DENSER the sulfate the THICKER the sulfate, and the longer the sulfate remains on the positive plate the easier it is for the sulfur compound molecular structure is to "lattice". Interlock. Bind. Glue. Stick. Harden.

So it is like radiation. Intense short term is hazardous. Less intense long term is just as hazardous. Super deep discharging lays the sulfate on THICK. It also leaves very little REACTIVE COMPONENT left in the electrolyte to dissolve the sulfation and put it back into solution (recharging). When sulfate gets X microns "thick" on a plate it is a real bear to remove. Because in attempting to charge and remove latticed sulfation innocent bare positive plate material gets shedded by process of overheating and acid overprocessing because of high heat. You may see 120F electrolyte temperature while the plate may see 140F. It is insulated.

If the thought of playing a Pied Piper frequency tune to your batteries appeals to you, then you are the person you are trying to satisfy. Never attempt to screw with the tranquility of a satisfied customer.

time2roll
Nomad
Nomad
Each mode will have an effect on the other. Equalization will do some reconditioning. Reconditioning will do some equalization.

The science is beyond me but I understand if the charge is done at a certain frequency it will tend to knock the hardened sulfate from the plates and restore capacity to some extent. Battery Minder has a similar patented process.

Equalization is more of an over charge to make sure all cells are at 100% charge. This condition can be verified with a hydrometer.

RoyB
Explorer II
Explorer II
Just curious where you got the Black and Decker VEC1093DBD Portable 40AMP Charger from. Mine came from AMAZON and I notice they are listed as NOT AVAILABLE any more. I checked with another source that carried them in the past with the same results...

Hoping these chargers are NOT going out of production now... There is a bunch of us RV'ers that have them...

Roy Ken
My Posts are IMHO based on my experiences - Words in CAPS does not mean I am shouting
Roy - Carolyn
RETIRED DOAF/DON/DOD/CONTR RADIO TECH (42yrs)
K9PHT (Since 1957) 146.52M
2010 F150, 5.4,3:73 Gears,SCab
2008 Starcraft 14RT EU2000i GEN
2005 Flagstaff 8528RESS

beemerphile1
Explorer
Explorer
I've always felt equalizing was only needed after adding water. Particularly in a battery that is bounced on the roadways.

Desulfation should be done regularly and is even more important if you typically run the batteries low before charging.

The above is just my layman's opinion from past experience.
Build a life you don't need a vacation from.

2016 Silverado 3500HD DRW D/A 4x4
2018 Keystone Cougar 26RBS
2006 Weekend Warrior FK1900

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator
Reconditioning a.k.a. desulfation , can run for hours or even days without harm to batteries
The longer the better

Equalization , controlled over voltage to stir the electrolyte and equalize the specific gravity of all cells, is temperature sensitive and should only be done as a *timed* controlled event
Do it ONLY when your are there to keep watch , check on the batteries
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s

3_tons
Explorer III
Explorer III
Well, I should add I have two 6v GC batts...

bob213
Explorer
Explorer
I not the expert you are looking for but....


Two different objectives from what I've read. Reconditioning knocks sulfur off the plates. Equalization equals out the charge within the cells. Do both. Equalization should not be done on a maintenance free battery I am told.
You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality โ€“ Ayn Rand