Charge Up Those "New" Batteries

[BFL13]

Got a new pair of Flooded 6s from Canadian Tire today branded their way, but same as Deka GC 15s for specs and appearance. (230AH, 64 lbs)
Local store would rarely sell 6v batts, so they sit on the shelf. They do car batts.

I knew to charge them after their shelf-life before putting them into service. Might have been on this forum I learned that.

Got them home, and stickers said "M19" which turns out to be December, but another sticker said 11/19. Recharge by 6/20. Whatever.

Stuck in the hydrometer and got 1.260 on the border of white and green. Voltmeter said 6.23 each. That is 75% SOC . Yipes.

Been charging them up ever since and equalizing after that. Now on second equalize session with my VEC1093DBD, and the SG is coming up nicely into the green after 10 hours, but more to go.

So--the moral of the story is-- YES! Charge those suckers up-- any new battery. You don't know where it's been and what its state is on getting it home unless you check.

Do not ASSume it is as good as new just because you bought it brand new.

BTW I am not mad at Can Tire. I expected that sort of thing, but not 75% for a November battery on 2 Feb. So that is confirmation they do self discharge way more than 12s and AGMs.

No matter in my case, I have the charging equipment to get them back to as good as new. Watch out if you don't have an hydrometer and a voltmeter.

[BFL13]

Mobilesport has a PowerMax 60 amp LK, so he can be forgiven anything! It's those PD guys who are already on thin ice. 🙂

[Mobilesport]

Itinerant1 quote
"""You may get away with 1 100ah lfp battery because your in a van, rather small space.

Some of us that like a little more elbow room have a few more more lfp batteries not because we don't know what we're doing but we enjoy the conveniences without the need to fire up a generator. To each their own though. ;)"""quote

Something to think about , vans are really hard to insulate and so I have alot of heat loss ,, if I had more space such as a RV I could block off a certain section of inside of the RV to make a pretty much complete insulated box , I'm thinking that I could do that pretty easily and at that point the RV would be more efficient at keeping heat in then my van could ever be.

Just saying that there's no sense in heating a entire RV, waste of money , just like adding unnecessary batteries is more exspense.
Some people have a abundance of money and so it probably ain't a big deal to add a xtra $900 battery or heat a big space.

I do pretty good financially but the only reason I do is I run the numbers and keep my costs low.

The main reason I was talking against more then one battery is I was trying to prevent people from being scared away from lifepo4 thinking that they need to buy a bunch of batteries, I've seen many people demonstrating there RV electrical systems showing a bunch of lifepo4 batteries, i could see how those videos would scare people away .
You just don't need that many batteries to have all the modern conveniences and lifepo4 can be more affordable then lead acid.

I apologize for saying people don't know what there doing , bad on my part.

[Itinerant1]

Mobilesport wrote:

BFL13 wrote:
Good reasoning for the single 100AH Li and recharging routines. I have camped when it is near freezing and the furnace ate 100 AH in a day, never mind all the other 12v draws, so I would need two of those Lis to avoid running out of AH in the night. Reasoning still comes out the same way, needing 400AH of GC2s or equivalent.

Of course it requires you to be young enough to get the 10 years to make that work!

@ BFL , is your furnace efficient ?
One thing I do is do my charging in four small sessions instead of one long charge session , that way i can crank the furnace up to full blast for a half hour while i charge the battery and that prevents the furnace from drawing the battery down, when I get done with that session I turn the furnace on low to keep it from drawing the battery down , since I had the heat up so high previously the heat lasts quite awhile and then slowly starts tapering off , that's when I crank the generator and battery charger plus dial the furnace back up to high, I just do that to help prevent drawing the battery down.

You may get away with 1 100ah lfp battery because your in a van, rather small space.

Some of us that like a little more elbow room have a few more more lfp batteries not because we don't know what we're doing but we enjoy the conveniences without the need to fire up a generator. To each their own though. 😉

[Mobilesport]

BFL13 wrote:
Good reasoning for the single 100AH Li and recharging routines. I have camped when it is near freezing and the furnace ate 100 AH in a day, never mind all the other 12v draws, so I would need two of those Lis to avoid running out of AH in the night. Reasoning still comes out the same way, needing 400AH of GC2s or equivalent.

Of course it requires you to be young enough to get the 10 years to make that work!

@ BFL , is your furnace efficient ?
One thing I do is do my charging in four small sessions instead of one long charge session , that way i can crank the furnace up to full blast for a half hour while i charge the battery and that prevents the furnace from drawing the battery down, when I get done with that session I turn the furnace on low to keep it from drawing the battery down , since I had the heat up so high previously the heat lasts quite awhile and then slowly starts tapering off , that's when I crank the generator and battery charger plus dial the furnace back up to high, I just do that to help prevent drawing the battery down.

[wa8yxm]

I had a lovely day yesterday shelping batteries.. It was 72 degrees (F) out as I installed my last new battery for a while.. I now have
A pair of GC-2 Flooded wet cells 230 amp hours
A Group 31 12 volt RV/marine deep cycle 130 anp hours
A Group 29 about 105 AH
and a 27 (About 95) Wanted another 31 but they did not have one in stock.

Thus proving mixed sizes work... now the reason for this

The inverter said of the batteries as I drove last Wed "Nobody home" it would not draw off 'em nor charge them (Ouch).

The 6V's are under the step. good ventilation (open to ground) and the terminals needed serious cleaning (installed in 2014 as I recall)

The `12's are in a wooden box. the box was built in 2006 and originally housed two group 31 AGM's I then added a couple 29 Maintenance free and later dumped one of those (and re-moved that part of the box) the AGM's only lasted a few years so it's been Maintence free in that box for at least a decade.

Acid fumes from the batteries would of course damage the wood.. Which looks new (Save for one piece that lays atop the batteries and ... Well it was "Old" when I put it there.. Connections on the Maintenance Free were clean and shiny even though I'd not touched them in a few years.

Of the 3 Group 29's that were there

#1 Failed static test. when I dropped it off and hooked the load tester I had less than 10 volts at zero amps.

#2 passed. proper load test is 315 amps for 15 seconds. I sucked 360 for over 20 seconds and still in the green.

#3 failed load test. Good voltage to start but dropped like a rock under less thanb 100 amp loads

So now I have two new batteries..

What does this have to do with self discharge

Well Flooded wet GC-2's tend to "Spit" a bit and the "Spit" (Dilute Sulfuric acid) allows some current to flow post to post OUTSIDE the battery. it is also why the terminals needed serious cleaning. The Maintenance free ones.. Well they can do that if you rapid charge them.. clearly I did not

Oh rapid charge for my battery bank is something like over 170 amps. IN THEORY I can hit 160 (Never going to happen) in practice about 100 between the 80 amp PD converter and the 80 amp charger module in the inverter..

I know they are nice when they work. HEAVY when they don't 🙂

[steveh27]

Interesting post Mobilesport. In June I replaced my 105AH lead acid batt with 2 100 AH lifepo4 batteries through Alibaba. My class B has a small battery box, but they built these to fit it. I do a lot of boondocking in FLA during Feb & MAr, and was really looking forward to not worrying about powwer use as much with these. But health issues have me unable to go. I recharge with a 120 watt portable solar panel while I park in the shade. I plan on adding another 120 watt solar panel to help recharge. The few times I'm on shore power my PD4635 converter/charger does the job, though limited to 35 amps. When I have my Honda 2000 genny it goes through that charger, but I do not take it to FLA - room is a premium. I hope to be able to go next winter.

[BFL13]

Good reasoning for the single 100AH Li and recharging routines. I have camped when it is near freezing and the furnace ate 100 AH in a day, never mind all the other 12v draws, so I would need two of those Lis to avoid running out of AH in the night. Reasoning still comes out the same way, needing 400AH of GC2s or equivalent.

Of course it requires you to be young enough to get the 10 years to make that work!

[Mobilesport]

Anybody that is using there batterys for boondocking would be far better off to switch to a single 100 ah lifepo4 to use the benefit of fast charging.

Lifepo4 is actually cheaper then lead acids when you factor all things in.

I used to run Sams Club GC2 golf batteries, a guy over at Cheap RV living forum showed me how to build a Custom 40 amp battery charger using a Meanwell power supply, I learned how to charge my lead acids up to 85 % soc and then shut charging down to prevent wasting generator gas trying to get to 100%.

I use the Same Meanwell power supply/ battery charger to charge a single 100 ah lifepo4, the difference is that i can bulk/absorption charge the lifepo4 all the way to 100% soc .
Let's say that i run my 100ah lifepo4 down to 50 % soc ...
I can charge the lifepo4 back up with the 40 amp Meanwell and reach 100% soc in about 1 hour and 15 minutes!!!!!!!!!!!
1 hour and 15 minutes to put 50ah back into the lifepo4!!!!!!
And that is when I'm charging with the 40 amp Meanwell that has been ran ragged for years to the point that the output is degraded to about 34amps.

So I'm actually able to put 50ah back into the lifepo4 in 1 hour and 15 minutes using a 34amp charger!!!
Note that a 100 ah Battleborn can actually be charged with a 50 amp charger without any negative effects , I could charge it with a 100 amp charger in about a half hour but that wouldn't give me the full life of the battery.
A 50 amp charger is optimal for a 100 ah lifepo4.

Any battery charger that is over 50 amps will lessen the life of the lifepo4 a little , the higher you go over 50 amps the more life you lose of the battery,

I have a Powermax 60 amp adjustable voltage battery charger that i dialed to 14.4 volts ,, the Battleborn wants to be charged with 14.4 volts.
,I'm going to swap it in place of the Meanwell and my charge times are going to be even quicker.
Keep in mind if you ever get a 100ah lifepo4 get a 50 amp charger , a 50 amp charger is optimal for a 100ah Battleborn lifepo4.
A single 100ah Lifepo4 is all that you need in capacity because if you ever run low on power you just do a quick charge and battery is full again.

When you see people with a bunch of lifepo4 batteries they don't know what there doing, they keep trying to get more power by adding batteries, you don't get power by adding batteries, you get power by having a single battery and a really good charger that can absorption charge all the way to 100%.
Times have changed and the battery technology is crazy awesome.
It's simple too.

I charge my lifepo4 the same way that i charged my lead acid , only difference is that i lowered the charge voltage from 14.8 for lead acid to 14.4 for lifepo4.
The lifepo4 has a built-in battery management system (BMS)
That automatically protects the battery from being damaged.
It protects from overcharging.
It protects from freezing weather.
It protects from letting the soc get to low.
No need to equalize
No need to float
You can leave them at 20----80% soc and no damage will occur.
And the volts don't drop when in storage that's why you need no float

There was people trying to talk me into lifepo4, I resisted mainly do to price but after doing the math the lifepo4 is cheaper.
$200 for golf cart batteries but if your boondocking and only getting them to 85% soc they only last about 700 cycles and so I had to keep replacing golf batteries $200 ,, $200 ,,$200,,$200,,$200 plus all the hassle.
I would've had to buy 5 sets of golf batteries in ten years time at the cost of $1000 , plus lead acid is a pain in the donkey.
And lead acids performance in the cold weather was terrible.

Bought a 100ah Battleborn for $950 ,, the next day the Battleborn company put $100 back into my account because they said the battery was on sale and so I ended up paying $850 and it comes with a 10 year warranty.
The Battleborn is supposed to give about 3000 cycles and even after that the battery is still usable like a 90 ah battery instead of a 100ah battery.
Switching to lifepo4 was one of the best things that I ever did.
Crazy awesome battery, this battery is supposed to last for over 10 years and even then it is supposed to continue but with less capacity, so for example in ten years my 100 ah battery is supposed to perform like a 90 ah lifepo4. Still plenty of life.
If this battery quits on me after 5 years I still got my money's worth because this battery is amazing.

[BFL13]

Found it I think!

"Based on the number 1177F28-29 I am able to determine that this battery was formed on the 177th day of 2011. The first digit in this sequence is the last digit of the year and the next three digits are the day of the year.

Regards,
Spencer DeTurk
East Penn manufacturing co., inc.
Lyon Station , PA 19536
(610)682-4231x2993 "

So my 9308s are 2019, 308th day. I also read somewhere that with Wets, they make the forms and date them, but add the acid later just before shipping them and put a shipping date sticker on then. One guy said they might start using next month's stickers "early" around the 20th of a month.

So my OP batts check out for their dates ok.

Got SG up to 1.295ish in the cold, so Baseline will be a tad less than that. I am calling it 1.290 for government work.

[landyacht318]

I think its unwise to believe the batteries even leave the factory fully charged.

Full charge takes time, and time is money, and there is no honor in achieving maximum profit, and max profit is paramount in the world today..

The last pair of 6v costco interstates I installed new, the Specific gravity wold not rise where it should be until I cycled them to about 75% SOC, and then 14.7'd them for hours, then eq'd them.

They are still performing well for their owner a few years later. I EQ them once a year, and his Iota 45 amp converter does the rest.

I think EQ'ing new but self discharged unbroken in batteries, could be unnecessarily hard on the plates

I've read on Automotive forums, that interstate has moved many of their automotive starting batteries from JCI/Clarios, to Exide, as their manufacturer, and quality has tanked further.

No idea about their Marine batts, GC-2's, or GC-12's.

[BFL13]

These 6s in the OP, which I believe are Deka GC15s, each have an English/French sticker on top which says in English, "Ship Code M19, Recharge by 06/20" Another sticker down low on the end says 11/19, which is usually the build date AFAIK. No code stamped in the post like a Trojan, eg.

The markings on their cases say:
93081G16 0877 and on the other
93081C1E 0681 Hard to read G vs C, so not sure there.

Mex said in a post some years ago, "The brand into the lid shows which facility and which line and date that battery came off of, very similar to a batch #. "

Rolls has its own system for batch numbers
https://www.rollsbattery.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Rolls-Battery-Date-Code.pdf

Another sticker on them says, "Filled with acid UN 2794" That would be a UN regulation for Wets. Lithium has another number, eg.

https://www.gwp.co.uk/guides/un3480-regulations/#labelling

Interstate says here they have their own date code stamped on to start with, then the local dealer will recharge them after three months and put a sticker on them. Their U-batts have the US Battery system which is the letter number and a last letter for the plant location.

https://bumpertobumperradio.com/latest-news/item/929-how-can-i-tell-the-age-of-my-car-battery-inters...

[theoldwizard1]

joebedford wrote:
My GC batteries have the date code stamped on the negative lead posts. Mine says A9 which is January 2019.

Put some grease on that battery terminal and wire. Even Vaseline would be fine. Be liberal, that stuff is not expensive.

[theoldwizard1]

BFL13 wrote:
No matter in my case, I have the charging equipment to get them back to as good as new. Watch out if you don't have an hydrometer and a voltmeter.

I would always fully charge "house" batteries before putting them into service.

[joebedford]

My GC batteries have the date code stamped on the negative lead posts. Mine says A9 which is January 2019.