Doing an electrical system from scratch, need some help!

[rbts]

Hey everyone! I joined this forum specifically to ask this question and I hope someone here can help me figure it out.

My wife and I purchased a used 2011 Forest River R-Pod with the intention of doing a light remodel (paint and replacing vinyl floor) and it is now a down-to-the-studs remodel after finding water damage in the floor and walls that wasn't noticeable until the floor was removed.

Anyway, since I have the opportunity to put whatever I want into an empty shell of a camper, I'm doing everything from scratch with new components since the original systems looked awful, maintenance heavy and childishly wired in my opinion. We're going for a low energy solar/shore power setup thats as maintenance free as possible.

I've done literal days of research now and think I have it all figured out except for one detail. Without specifications (since I've only decided on one component), here's what I've planned:

Solar panels (wattage TBD)
Solar charge controller
Spartan Power 2200w inverter/charger (also includes a transfer switch): ***Link Removed***
AGM batteries (probably two 6V, haven't calculated my needs yet).

What I'm stuck on is probably the simplest part of the setup, the distribution panel. Initially I had trouble because I didn't even know the right keywords to search for, and could only find residential sized breaker panels.

The problem I'm having now is that I can find extremely few options that DON'T include a converter/charger. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I'll be needing one with the inverter/charger I've chosen as our camper will be connected to the 30amp shore power for the majority of our trips.

I've currently found these two that I think complete the system, providing a DC panel and an AC panel in compact form without also adding in a converter/charger:

***Link Removed***
***Link Removed***


Will either of these work to complete the system, am I missing something, or is there a better product I should be looking for?

[Naio]

I don't know. It works fine for other appliances. I suspect different laptops react differently to MSW but I am not going to experiment on my new one!

[Almot]

Naio wrote:
Don't use a MSW inverter for your electronic devices!

I killed my laptop that way, after charging fine the first few times. Plus, the MSW did something to the laptop charger,

Could it be a faulty MSW inverter? I have never had a problem with MSW on laptop and phone chargers.

PSW is sure better. Go Power have 300W PSW for $170, with fan - which is good and bad thing. Don't know if there are any reliable PSW for less money.

[Naio]

Get a small 150w inverter for charging laptop and phone, it's cheap, MSW type is fine.

No, no! Don't use a MSW inverter for your electronic devices!

I killed my laptop that way, after charging fine the first few times. Plus, the MSW did something to the laptop charger, so when I used the same charger on a different laptop, on 120v shore power, it killed that second laptop too.

Just get 12 volt chargers for your electronics on eBay. About $10 for the laptop and $1 for two phones. Or get a small PSW, if you want to run the TV and stuff.

[Almot]

Westend wrote:
1" fiberglass batt against inside of aluminum siding,compressed, 1" extruded polystyrene, polyethelene 4 mil vapor barrier, 1/4" fanfold extruded polystyrene

Wow. I wonder if those i.diots will ever make trailers like this. Would've only add 1.5K in labor and materials (or less).

[westend]

rbts wrote:
Thanks for the tip and well wishes. I know its over the top for a small travel trailer, but I actually have the budget to have some fun with it. We bought it 1/2 price and had the budget for a new one, so theres some room to play with ideas right now.

Definitely going to cram as much XPS sheets into those tiny walls as I can!

You're welcome. For sure have some fun with your project. The really nice thing about restoring a travel trailer is that you can outfit as YOU deem nice, not as something that sells quickly or shows well at the RV show.

What I did with the insulation is (from exterior to interior):1" fiberglass batt against inside of aluminum siding,compressed, 1" extruded polystyrene, polyethelene 4 mil vapor barrier, 1/4" fanfold extruded polystyrene across the wall and ceiling surfaces (acts as a thermal break). I used the fiberglass batt against the siding so some air could exchange, allow for water drainage in a leak situation, and allowed for wiring installtion. The foam board panels were individually cut for each frame space with foam adhesive recovering any possible leakage into the frame. The vapor barrier just makes sense. The fanfold-thermal break keeps the inside paneling warm in Winter and cool in Summer.

Results: I can heat the trailer in MN, in the Winter with a single 1200W electric heater.

Good luck with the project and keep us informed!

[Almot]

rbts wrote:
I know its over the top for a small travel trailer, but I actually have the budget to have some fun with it. We bought it 1/2 price and had the budget for a new one, so theres some room to play with ideas right now.

I'm thinking you are over-thinking the electrical part. There is little to add to what Time2roll said - get a pair of 2*6V or 2*12V, good CONverter, and go camping. See how it works for you. There isn't much need to buy AGM if they are not inside the trailer.

Skip solar and big INverter for now. On a few odd off-grid days you won't die without running a toaster or microwave.

Get a small 150w inverter for charging laptop and phone, it's cheap, MSW type is fine. Something like This one.

No installation is needed, they usually come with cig lighter plug - and you should have 12V cig receptacle in trailer. When and IF you install big 2,000-3,000W inverter later, you'll keep small one as a spare.

Insulation is a big thing. At the factory they put fiberglass insulating "wool" in the walls with many bold spots.

Disclaimer: I do have solar and AGM. But I am almost always off-grid, and my batteries are kind of inside, in under-bed pass-through storage.

[HadEnough]

Iota Engineering makes some very nice products that don't break the bank. I've been using them for at least a decade on various custom builds and never had anything fail.

If Bluesky is a bit too pricey, Iota makes a distribution panel that would work in this application.

[2oldman]

This Rv electrical tutorial is popular around here. Comes in two parts.

[rbts]

2oldman wrote:

rbts wrote:
Thanks for a good critical assessment.

Except for the 11,000 watts part.

It caused me to brush up on my electrical conversions, so I'll count it beneficial.

[2oldman]

rbts wrote:
Thanks for a good critical assessment.

Except for the 11,000 watts part.

[SoundGuy]

donn0128 wrote:
My toaster is rated at 1100 watts@120VAC. That translates to 11,000 watts @12VDC.

Good grief, where do you come up with this stuff?!! - an "1100 watt" toaster is an 1100 watt toaster regardless of the original power source. :S At 120 vac it will draw a little over 9 amps, at 12 vdc about 10 times that or ~ 90 amps. My own camper toaster is labeled as a 750 watt toaster but in reality draws closer to 700 watts which translates to ~ 6 amps @ 120 vac so when I'm running it with my 1000 watt PSW inverter it draws ~ 60 amps from the battery. Wattage of the load device is the same regardless of the source.

[rbts]

westend wrote:

time2roll wrote:
OK I understand you want all that equipment for ease of use. Pace yourself. Get the RV panel with converter and go camping.

Then start completing your plan to add the inverter and solar. Besides that I am an advocate for separate components so that if one item fails it is far easier to diagnose, adapt, bypass and repair. So I recommend a separate stand alone inverter, separate transfer switch(s), separate charging system. This feeds right back into just get the RV electric panel with converter to do the charging.

You can still enjoy the travelling, outdoors and some nature without toast for a few days. Besides you can make toast on a skillet with propane. Likewise a dozen ways to make coffee with propane instead of a Keurig.

X2, this is all solid advice. Assuming that you will have batteries installed outside the cabin, all of the solar and inverter connections to the batteries can be done after the installation of the batteries and the off-the-shelf load center w/converter.

Having said that, I also gutted my trailer and used a residential load center, a deck-mount converter, and have solar, inverter. I also spent considerable money to build a distribution panel with master switches that connects/disconnects two battery banks with the various electrical devices. I made 12V bus boxes that facilitate that variability. A guy can get too carried away but, if installed correctly, little need to futz and tweak the systems later.

Good luck with your restoration. If I had one tip to give, it would be to draw plans on paper where things will be installed. It saves heartache.
If I had more tips to give: Insulate that trailer like there is no tomorrow. The cost of insulation and the labor to get everything perfect will be paid back in huge dividends later.

Thanks for the tip and well wishes. I know its over the top for a small travel trailer, but I actually have the budget to have some fun with it. We bought it 1/2 price and had the budget for a new one, so theres some room to play with ideas right now.

Definitely going to cram as much XPS sheets into those tiny walls as I can!

[westend]

time2roll wrote:
OK I understand you want all that equipment for ease of use. Pace yourself. Get the RV panel with converter and go camping.

Then start completing your plan to add the inverter and solar. Besides that I am an advocate for separate components so that if one item fails it is far easier to diagnose, adapt, bypass and repair. So I recommend a separate stand alone inverter, separate transfer switch(s), separate charging system. This feeds right back into just get the RV electric panel with converter to do the charging.

You can still enjoy the travelling, outdoors and some nature without toast for a few days. Besides you can make toast on a skillet with propane. Likewise a dozen ways to make coffee with propane instead of a Keurig.

X2, this is all solid advice. Assuming that you will have batteries installed outside the cabin, all of the solar and inverter connections to the batteries can be done after the installation of the batteries and the off-the-shelf load center w/converter.

Having said that, I also gutted my trailer and used a residential load center, a deck-mount converter, and have solar, inverter. I also spent considerable money to build a distribution panel with master switches that connects/disconnects two battery banks with the various electrical devices. I made 12V bus boxes that facilitate that variability. A guy can get too carried away but, if installed correctly, little need to futz and tweak the systems later.

Good luck with your restoration. If I had one tip to give, it would be to draw plans on paper where things will be installed. It saves heartache.
If I had more tips to give: Insulate that trailer like there is no tomorrow. The cost of insulation and the labor to get everything perfect will be paid back in huge dividends later.

[rbts]

donn0128 wrote:

rbts wrote:

donn0128 wrote:
Why do you want an inverter charger? Are you planning to run everything on 120VAC instead of 12VDC? In a RV 12VDC is much more convienent. You already have the battery, so use a converter charger of your choice, make everything 12VDC except the one or two things you think you want as 120VAC.
In a small RV like your RPod you will not have enough space to put enough batteries to run much on 120VAC.

The inverter is for the ability to run some AC appliances for short amounts of time while not plugged in to shore power (laptop charger/toaster/etc.) I know DC is far more efficient, but my goal is to make everything as versatile and painless a system as possible.

OK, lets assume you want to make toast. My toaster is rated at 1100 watts@120VAC. That translates to 11,000 watts @12VDC. Your fooling yourself if you think you could actually do that and still have battery power enough to run lights, water pump, and control power for the refer. RPods are pretty small and you simply do not have enough space for that many batteries nor roof space for solar panels. Make toast in the oven, make coffee on a stove top coffee maker. There is nohing 120VAC that you need when boondocking. If you want to watch TV a simple 25 dollar plug in inverter will do.
I think since you still at the planning stage that you need to sit down, make an honest assessment of your needs. Take each 120VAC appliance you think you want to power and calculate how many 12VDC amps that it will use. Remember you should never dischaege a battery below about 50% meaning a battery with 200AH capacity you should only use around 100AH before recharge. Second you need to calculate how you are going to draw XXX amps out of a battery per minute and how big everything is going to need to be. Heck, a 2000 watt inverter needs 2ga wire at minimum. Your going to want a lot of 0ga wire. And that stuff is expensive. Just price it out to see the falicy of your idea in such a small RV.
Definitely not trying to be mean, but trying to get you to open your eyes and not make a huge mistake.

Thanks for a good critical assessment. I haven't purchased anything yet which is why I'm doing all my research now. I have read up on amp hour capacities of batteries and not letting them go below 50%, and know what my power needs are mathematically for the appliances I have.

But don't worry about trying to save me from mistakes. If I add everything up in the end and find one choice far outweighs the other I'll make whichever one is better for me.