Energy Management System

[pianotuna]

Hi all,

The magic blue smoke has escaped from the lovely Magnum 3012 inverter/charger.

I can live without load support.

But I do want to be able to limit how many amps I draw as I'm often in locations where there is only 15 amps. I've been "dialing down" to 12.

Any one know of a stand alone device that would allow me to do that?

[pianotuna]

Hi BFL13,

And what brand name is that converter?

BFL13 wrote:
My 100 amp converter/charger will run at constant 103 amps for at least an hour with no tapering of the amps.

[BFL13]

My 100 amp converter/charger will run at constant 103 amps for at least an hour with no tapering of the amps. I don't know if there is a limit to how long it can put out the 100 amps because the batteries reach the absorption stage by then and amps then taper. If I had a bigger battery bank then I would expect the constant 100 amps to continue longer than that one hour I have seen.

A factory test of a similar 100 amp converter acting in "power supply mode" to an "artificial load" had it running at 102 amps for four hours no problem before they stopped the test.

I don't know why there would be any time limit on the converter acting as a power supply at its rated output as long as it is getting proper cooling from its fan.

EDIT: a closer look at that test sheet shows that the translation into English calls it the "burning test" and they gave themselves a 2 hour spec. they ran it for 4 hours and called it a success. So Mr Wizard could be right in general as to what can be expected from a converter, but it should take some hours at full output.

ISTR Mr Wizard some time ago, mentioned he was having an issue with the small compartment that was the only place he could mount his converter, and he was concerned about it over-heating? (Maybe I have that wrong.)

[MrWizard]

But in that situation you can't use a normal charge converter, that how I cooked a wfco ( I plugged in an electric heater into the bedroom outlet on the pvr1250 )
Did not hurt the trip lite, but cooked the 100amp wfco

Converter chargers are not meant/designed to run full load constant mode (whether it is 15min or 45, therload always tapers when charging batteries)
On heavy double conversion the load doesn't tapper
For that to work without failure, the ac to DC conversion
You need a power supply some thing designed to carry a rated load continuously with out over heating and enough cooling space air flow

In my case both components where in the same compartment
The inverter was not damaged, the converter failed, different design considerations, the inverter was designed with commercial duty in mind
The converter was designed to feed a tapering load .. Batteries. The inverter powering the heater was constant, converter lasted about 45 minutes, I'm still using the tripplite inverter
This was not wfcos fault, when I did this back in march
This was mine, the WfCo is a converter charger not a continuos duty power supply

[pianotuna]

Hi MrWizard,

Here is what I mean.

Power source-->converter-->battery bank-->inverter-->RV shore power cord.

Lossy as the very old dickens for the converter is in this case 0.7 power factor, and the inverter might be 87%, but it does prevent overloading a 15 amp circuit. And if the inverter is big enough you can, on a temporary basis draw more than the output of the converter.

MrWizard wrote:
Don do you mean two chargers when you say double conversion?

Because most of the time when that term is used it is in refernce to an inverter trying to run a converter and no shore power

Because I am Not talking about that or ac to DC to ac

Also check out TrippLite they have psw inverters

[MEXICOWANDERER]

I helped design the medical center load shedding system for WASHOE MEDICAL CENTER in Reno Nevada. To integrate it with 3 Caterpillar Kato 120 Kw generators. Load shedding has to be programmable because each circuit has a different hierarchy and the ordinal can and will change. In the case of WMC it started with the operating theaters, elevators, utilities (HVAC) and then down through (I forgot) but suffice to say a few dozen other levels. It cannot be done without software commands even though the programming would be basic.

I think I mentioned on this forum how much I fought against "SMART" generator paralleling whose system was VACUUM TUBE TYPE. Bottom line was they had a seven ton generator jump through a concrete wall and end up on 4th Street on fire (flammable engine coolant!)

The process is moniker-ed LOAD SHEDDING.

And good freaking luck finding something. 400 Hz military aircraft and combat operation centers employ load shedding but this is way the hell and gone exotic.

EDIT***EDIT***EDIT

Here is a touch of Load Shedding...

http://etap.com/load-shedding/load-shedding-software.htm

[MrWizard]

Don do you mean two chargers when you say double conversion?

Because most of the time when that term is used it is in refernce to an inverter trying to run a converter and no shore power

Because I am Not talking about that or ac to DC to ac

Also check out TrippLite they have psw inverters

[time2roll]

You can just add more solar panels and a new controller. No need to remove existing.

A Panasonic Inverter MW will operate on reduced power. Probably work fine on that 1000w psw inverter. These microwaves actually run at reduced power vs the standard to just cycle the megatron. I think they go down to 500 or 600 watts... any less they cycle below that.

[pianotuna]

Hi Mr Wizard,

I could live with double conversion and a 3000 watt PSW inverter. But the converter would have to have autoreset reverse polarity breakers.

It was 32.2 c (90 f) inside the RV when I got back from lunch. So on goes the generator. Pressed the wizard and I'm charging at only 16 amps.

MrWizard wrote:


Yes I said converter, I know PT wants another combo inverter~chartger unit
We are taking about charging, and I did not want to add to the confusion

He wants to control power draw when charging from 15 amp circuits
But have more capability when using generator or campground power

Most of us solve this by multiple chargers or almost never using duplex power circuits and relying on generator power

[pianotuna]

Hi Almot,

Well, not quite. I have a 400 watt inverter that I use on a regular basis--and a 1000 PSW sitting in a box. I'll install that to replace the magnum for now.

Almot wrote:
Beside converter, he has solar to supply some of his 12V power. Probably - sufficient to supply all his 12V power, until he starts using battery to run high 120V loads with inverter. Now inverter is dead, so no more high loads for a while 😉

[pianotuna]

Hi Smk,

There is a siren song about double conversion, that's for sure. But I've tried the microwave on a 2000 watt inverter and it was not enough "beef". It was mostly miss.

The Microwave gave me troubles when I had the 2500 watt Cobra MSW, too. It mostly would start, but once in a while.....no go.

So I'm pretty much wanting 3000 watts @ 12 volts and PSW. Finding that in a "stand alone" is not so easy.

By the time I pay for a 2nd and/or larger converter, replace the reverse polarity fuses with auto reset breakers (cause double conversion tends to deform them), and buy a 3000 watt PSW, I'm at about the same cost as another brand new Magnum. (assuming Magnum doesn't warranty).

More solar would be nice--but I'd have to give up my Unisolar panels and replace the charge controller. It doesn't appeal to me much.

smkettner wrote:
Second PD9140 and do double conversion into the battery/inverter.
Use one for low power, both for high power. And more solar for the hot days running the air for extended periods.

[MrWizard]

Circuit breaker is just going to trip on and off, a cycle timer
No good for his needs
He needs to turn down the power use of the charge output when on limited line power

The only thing I can of is a large impedance between converter and batteries
Something to make the converter think the batteries are charged
It would need to be adjustable, and with stand heavy amp discharge, or removed from circuit, maybe a large varistat
The magnum probably does the job at the switching circuit , limiting the cycle to limit the amps

Yes I said converter, I know PT wants another combo inverter~chartger unit
We are taking about charging, and I did not want to add to the confusion

He wants to control power draw when charging from 15 amp circuits
But have more capability when using generator or campground power

Most of us solve this by multiple chargers or almost never using duplex power circuits and relying on generator power to charge batteries to the maximum we can achieve, this is what he was doing to immediately before the failure

[Almot]

Beside converter, he has solar to supply some of his 12V power. Probably - sufficient to supply all his 12V power, until he starts using battery to run high 120V loads with inverter. Now inverter is dead, so no more high loads for a while 😉

[pianotuna]

Hi doug,

I chose to leave the OEM PD 40 amp with Wizard in place. It took me 20 seconds to move two plugs and have a fully functioning 12 volt system. In fact, I think the PD may be doing a better job than the Magnum was as far as charging is concerned.

I do have a modest solar system as well.

dougrainer wrote:
How are you going to function without the Magnum? You have to have something to supply 12 volts to the RV. Doug

[dougrainer]

I do not know of any AUTOMATIC device other than a PCI or Intellitec EMS system that must be installed in the Breaker box and will cost probably over $1000 just for the parts. You could install a 15 amp breaker in a box and wire with a 15 amp male plug to the shore connection and then use a 50 to 30 to 15 power cord step down adapter to that 15 amp breaker. That just means if you go over 15 amps that breaker will trip. Then you have to go outside and reset it each time. You could get something like this to monitor the draw with the remote meter. Doug

https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-Industries-EMS-HW50C-Electrical-Management/dp/B003AN1UA8/ref=sr_1...

[dougrainer]

How are you going to function without the Magnum? You have to have something to supply 12 volts to the RV. Doug