Identify power source-UPDATE

[Charlie_D_]

Son bought a house that is several years old and is updating outside light fixtures. On the far side of the house is a GFCI that has no power. On a brick column near it is a light fixture that I was going to change. Using a voltage detector I found no voltage. I removed the fixture and in the process 2 wires touched and arced. Testing again the wires showed no voltage. I replaced the fixture and then checked the breakers. None tripped. I checked all the receptacles on that side of the house and found that they all worked. Checked every GFCI in the house and they all worked. Checked all switches and they work on all fixtures.

I am unable to find the power source for the GFCi and fixture. Any idea on finding the power source. The brick column was added by the previous owner. Unable to find any buried wiring coming from brick column because concrete was poured around it. My next step is to pull cover plates on receptacles on that side of the house to check to see if additional connections are added but I would think that the light should have a switch. I can understand that the GFCI may be wired to the in house receptacle on the opposite of the wall.

I have thought of turning all breakers off except one and using that breaker to back feed the light fixture to see if it returned power to a breaker that has no power. Any ideas?

[Charlie_D_]

Lot's of conflicting responses:

1) Used a GFCI tester. No lights. Pulled cover and receptacle. No power to GFCI.

2) donn-That's my problem. No power at light. Trying to find why.

3) Niner-Nothing wrong with operator. Remember your comment next time you work on circuits. Although it may be a good idea to use a twist lock on a dead circuit it is not a,ways practical because there is not room to perform the necessary task. All three wires were fed through the center hole on the mounting bracket and hole was approx. 1/2"

4) BLF13-Turning all breakers off and then one at a time will not work. There is no power at the wires to GFCI OR light fixture.

5)Bobbo-Your circuit tester will not work. There is no power to fixture or GFCI.

6)Newman-See comment 5 above. NO power.

7)WA8XYM-Got a better description? Can not find item you describe.

[Charlie_D_]

Bobbo wrote:
Buy a Circuit Tracer. Put a Socket to Outlet Adaptor in the light socket. Plug in the tester's transmitter. Take the detector to the breaker box and it will show you EXACTLY which breaker is powering that circuit. I use mine all the time.

And I second RJsfishin's suggestion.

That only works with a powered circuit. The GFCI and light does not have power.

[Charlie_D_]

RJsfishin wrote:
I'd start w/ getting a new voltage detector,...could have kilt you !!

Already done. I now double check with a second. I always test a live circuit before and it indicated that it was working.

[wa8yxm]

wa8yxm wrote:
If your voltage detector found no voltage, but the wires arced. FAULTY VOLTAGE DETECTOR.

Can not comment on the GFCI

Wire Trackers (harbor freight sells one) may assist you in tracing the problem down.

One thought.. Some electrical inspectors need to be charged with stupidity.

It may be that the seller was told he needed to install GFCI's (you usually do not on older houses, Grandfather clauses usually apply)

So to make the inspector happy he put in a GFCI, in the proper place, never bothering to hook it up, See there is is. Inspector checks off the box (Without ever testing it) and moves on.

(When I look at what the inspector passed in the house I used to own.. I can believe that story.. He scared me,, It is not good when I know more than a so-called professional inspector).

[wa8yxm]

If your voltage detector found no voltage, but the wires arced. FAULTY VOLTAGE DETECTOR.

Can not comment on the GFCI

Wire Trackers (harbor freight sells one) may assist you in tracing the problem down.

[newman_fulltime]

my bet the gfci is wired wrong they did not put the hot on the correct side of the plug

[Bobbo]

BFL13 wrote:
"I have thought of turning all breakers off except one and using that breaker to back feed the light fixture to see if it returned power to a breaker that has no power. Any ideas?"

Usually, you turn the branch CBs all off first and then turn them back on one at a time till the power comes back on at that location.

Or, turn off only 1 branch. If the circuit is still hot, turn that one back on and turn off another. Repeat till circuit is dead. I still like my circuit tracer. I don't have to kill power to stuff in the house trying to find the right circuit.

[Ozlander]

NinerBikes wrote:
I'd say you either need a new voltage detector, or a new operator.

Something is not right. Even when not hot, you never let 2 wires touch each other, put a twist cap on on all the hot wires, neutral too, when working on them.

Not really. You can get a spark off of 6 volts.

[BFL13]

"I have thought of turning all breakers off except one and using that breaker to back feed the light fixture to see if it returned power to a breaker that has no power. Any ideas?"

Usually, you turn the branch CBs all off first and then turn them back on one at a time till the power comes back on at that location.

[NinerBikes]

I'd say you either need a new voltage detector, or a new operator.

Something is not right. Even when not hot, you never let 2 wires touch each other, put a twist cap on on all the hot wires, neutral too, when working on them.

[NinerBikes]

Double post

[donn0128]

It is likely a previous owner had problems with the GFCI and simply bypassed it. Thats why you had hot wires outside at the light.

[Bobbo]

Buy a Circuit Tracer. Put a Socket to Outlet Adaptor in the light socket. Plug in the tester's transmitter. Take the detector to the breaker box and it will show you EXACTLY which breaker is powering that circuit. I use mine all the time.

And I second RJsfishin's suggestion.

[RJsfishin]

I'd start w/ getting a new voltage detector,...could have kilt you !!