My first solar installation, looking for direction

[Fisherguy]

We have a 27 foot Komfort trailer, so far I've ditched the WFCO converter and mounted a PD9280 under the front sofa and use it to charge the 2 - Crown CR-235 golf cart batteries I just put in, I also installed a Xantrex SW-600 inverter which is wired to an Iota transfer switch to all out AC outlets in the trailer. We use that to watch the 26" LCD TV and the satellite receiver, I like to watch the news and (unfortunately) my wife watches a couple soaps every day so in total I'd say we watch a max of 5 hours TV a day. We might watch the odd football or Canucks game as well. We shut down the inverter when the TV's not on.

The inverter and converter are wired to fuses in a weatherproof box on the trailer tongue with 7 ft of 4ga and from there I have a short piece of 2 ga to the batteries. I also have a Trimetric I use to monitor things and a Honda 2000 watt generator to charge the batteries, the shunt is in another weatherproof box on the tongue, we're in BC, we camp May to Sept right now, normally a 3 week trip in June and 3 weeks in Sept, but that will change next year when we'll be retired; we pretty much only dry camp, no hook ups. We make coffee on the stove in a percolator and make toast on the stove as well.

I'd like to install solar panels on the roof, the trailer was pre-wired with 8ga conductors from the fridge vent to the batteries, unfortunately the route they picked means means it's about a 40 ft run to the batteries. I'd like to be able to use this 8ga if possible, if not I could run heavier gauge down the fridge vent and under the trailer to come up again under the sofa at the front of the trailer where I'd like to mount the controller. Someone suggested I could tap into the existing 4 ga from the inverter to the batteries (through the fuse)

A few months ago I got a quote from NAWS for the following:
2-140 watt Kyocera panels, a Midnight Solar Kid 30 amp MPPT controller, Midnight solar combiner with breakers, Z mount brackets, and misc items totalling $1,025 US including shipping.
I'm not thrilled about Z brackets, have been of people making their own L brackets out of alum angle, I like that idea. I was told to wire the panels in series so I could get away with the 8ga I have pre-wired but I've also heard in series my output would really go down if part of 1 panel is shaded, is that true? Being in series means I need the MPPT.

I'm curios about the Solar Cynergy 120 watt panels, I can get 2 of them for the price of 1 Kyocera, they're made in India though, is anyone familiar with them? They're cheap enough maybe I can put 3 of them up there?
https://www.solarblvd.com/product_in...oducts_id=2714

Some have told me the MPPT controllers are a waste of money, that a person is better off with a PWM controller? Either way I'd like to be able to add a 3rd panel later if I need to.

My fishing partner installed a system similar to the one I got the quote for but he was sold a Morningstar Tristar 30 MPPT controller, he also has 4-Trojan 105's. His system worked great on our last trip, his wife watched a lotta TV while we were fishing and he never needed to run his generator once on the 3 week trip, we had a lotta sun that trip, it was hot and not cold enough at night he needed to run his furnace. I like the sound of that, no generator at all!

I can get a 315 panel for $320 US, it's basically 80" x 40", only place it would fit is on the rear left of the trailer, I figure the back is most likely to be in the shade?

I'd ship to Blaine and go pick it up, do that all the time.

I'm sure the system I was quoted would work well for me buy I'm just wondering if I could get away with something a little cheaper, specially with the lousy exchange rate for the Canadian dollar. I wonder why some panels cost twice as much as others, what controller should I use etc, do I need heavier wiring from the panels to the controller etc etc. Any advice for the first timer?
Thanks in advance
Will

[time2roll]

Fisherguy wrote:
Spoke to Ralph at Bogart Engineering, they don't have any kinda "trade up" plan for upgrading from the Trimetric 2025 to the 2030 as of yet, darn ...

So what do people recommend for a PWM contoller (with an external display) that will work with 300 to 400 watts worth of panels?

When did you buy?

UPGRADE OFFERS

Rebate offer for recent purchasers of TM-2025 Monitor that want to trade it in for the TM-2030 Monitor and the SC-2030 Solar Charger.

If you’ve purchased a TM-2025 after September 2014, call us to inquire about this. The rebate amount will be larger for more recent purchasers of the TM-2025.

http://www.bogartengineering.com/content/upgrade

[BFL13]

Well, ok. But you would be the first man in History to get it right the first time pre- and post retirement for this kind of thing! 🙂

Never mind what the DW will announce how it is going to be, now that you have all this time! 🙂 (Surprise! Oops! 🙂 )

In that case IMO don't get any solar, go fishing this Fall as usual, and keep planning on next year so there is more time before you get your wallet out.

Three weeks this Fall is nothing in the Big Picture for the next many years. (Of course it is just advice from the BTDT view. Oh well :))

[Fisherguy]

Thanks Barry, but I'm not interested in a portable setup, if you saw the back of my truck when we head out you'd know why! 😉
Also I had a Siemans 100 watt panel once, used it as a portable for a season or 2 then sold it, it was a PITA.
Also, from what I know about the Solar 30 (been reading lots on here) not really interested in that either. I don't it mounted where I can see the display, I want the controller mounted under the sofa with a remote display by my PD 'charge wizard' and my Inverter switch, plus I've been reading you need to change the settings on the Solar 30 everyday of something. Would like a controller that equalizes too.

I admit I have a lot to learn but am not interested in a learner set if I end up changing a buncha stuff next year, would rather do it right the first time.

[BFL13]

High potential here for a big change in situation, needs, and circumstances between next September's 3 week trip (this time with solar) and next year's who knows what when retired (as stated in the OP)

IMO (worth the usual 2 cents), it is time for a "learner set" of solar and then get the "real set" next year or later once the "real situation" is more clear. (The OP might even get a new RV so nailing down a bunch of new panels now would be regretted if that happened.)

It would be handy if the learner panels could be part of the real set later. One 24 or two 12s? Later with two 12s, they could be in series and that in parallel with a new 24. Or be part of a full set of four 12s. Lots of choices.

The big thing IMO is just get a cheapo controller off eBay for now to run the initial learner set this Fall, and then get the more expensive controller later on, when more is known.

I would say get the Solar30 for now, which does have a read out display for amps and volts. Part of the "learning" is to compare what is showing on the solar for amps with the Trimetric for amps, so you can get a feel for how much is battery and how much is load (Trimetric only shows battery, so subtract that from "solar amps" and that is your load amps)

So IMO go for a portable arrangement of panels, not nailed down on this RV, get the eBay controller, and then ponder the whole thing over the winter coming up and then decide on what's next.
-------
For sure get a 2000w inverter so you can make toast with a real toaster instead of the bread-burner rack on the propane stove! Who needs that? 😞 (Got ours at Can Tire sale price of $169--it runs the 1000w (output) microwave too)

[Fisherguy]

Spoke to Ralph at Bogart Engineering, they don't have any kinda "trade up" plan for upgrading from the Trimetric 2025 to the 2030 as of yet, darn ...

So what do people recommend for a PWM contoller (with an external display) that will work with 300 to 400 watts worth of panels?

[grizzzman]

Fisherguy wrote:
OK, so I think I'm getting somewhere, for the panels I have it narrowed down to

these (4-100's)


or possibly 2 of these (4-120's)

Or one of the dual 120's and an additional 120 watt for $136.

The Windy Nation ones seem like a deal with the free shipping in the US, 500 all in for 400 watts, 3 Cynergy 120's would be 458 all in, 4 would be $608 with shipping.
(I wish I could find some reasonably priced 140's, I don't have room for the 40" x 40" ones Solar Blvd sells, like the idea of 3 140's)

With 1 pair of Crown CR-235's what should I go with? The panels will be flat mounted on the front of our Komfort.

I'm going to talk to Bogart tomorrow about their controller, if they'll upgrade my 2025 Trimetric to the 2030 using their controller would be a no brainer.

If I ran new cable down the fridge vent, down through the floor underneath and up into the area under my sofa where my PD9280 and inverter are mounted, (about 25 feet) what gauge should I run?

I use the Trimetric system and been impressed with its opperation , adjustibility and Ralphs support of the system. I am using the windy nations 100 watt panels. They output as claimed. At times there store at ebay has been the best priced. Worth a look imo. Be mindfull of wire size. As an example #8 AGW at 25 feet using 30 amps will have a voltage drop of over 6% you would be tossing watts away heating the wire instead of charging the battery. Is this what you want out of your investment?
all solar charge controllers recommend less then 3% loss. I would shoot for less. Good luck with your build!

[time2roll]

Panels are generic IMO. With 12v system and PWM controller such as the 30 amp Bogart you are buying Isc (short circuit amps) so that is the rating to look at. The 100s are 6.32 and the 120s are 7.5 amps. So up to four of either panel will work great with the Bogart.

I especially like the Bogart as it ties into the monitor to float the batteries as soon as you get fully charged. Some days you will need 15 minutes of absorption (storage) and other days you may need 4+ hours of absorption voltage (heavy use). I don't have this controller but BFL13 can tell you all about manually adjusting the panels and controller(non-Bogart) every day depending on usage and conditions.

Wire should not be made into a huge issue with PWM. As long as you get 15 volts to the controller you are fine. I would use the MC4 parallel connectors to connect panels in parallel. Then run #8 MC4 cable down to the controller. All Plug and play.

[Fisherguy]

OK, so I think I'm getting somewhere, for the panels I have it narrowed down to

these (4-100's)


or possibly 2 of these (4-120's)

Or one of the dual 120's and an additional 120 watt for $136.

The Windy Nation ones seem like a deal with the free shipping in the US, 500 all in for 400 watts, 3 Cynergy 120's would be 458 all in, 4 would be $608 with shipping.
(I wish I could find some reasonably priced 140's, I don't have room for the 40" x 40" ones Solar Blvd sells, like the idea of 3 140's)

With 1 pair of Crown CR-235's what should I go with? The panels will be flat mounted on the front of our Komfort.

I'm going to talk to Bogart tomorrow about their controller, if they'll upgrade my 2025 Trimetric to the 2030 using their controller would be a no brainer.

If I ran new cable down the fridge vent, down through the floor underneath and up into the area under my sofa where my PD9280 and inverter are mounted, (about 25 feet) what gauge should I run?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

8 gaugecfor that length of run is good for around ten amps total. Don't series the panels unless tou go MPPT on the controller.

Plan for the future. Dumb, is having to rip nee stuff out to go moú

[Fisherguy]

pianotuna wrote:
For the Calgary area;

http://www.solarwholesaler.ca

Have you dealt with them Don, are the Xterra panels very good? (only 2 year warranty, do you know where they're made?)
They have a 150 watt for 229 Cdn, shipping 2 of them to BC is over $100.

[BFL13]

We use about 70AH in the summer and 140 or so in the winter. (I have seen 200AH used when camping at 35F) Only use solar in the summer (April to October in the open) as in winter we camp in trees at provincial parks where solar wouldn't work anyway.

I find that around 200 or so watts of solar is enough for us when mounted in a tilted twirler, which is like maybe 350w flat to handle all our needs. It is like a bottomless pit for AH running the microwave, kettle , electric toaster, TV/DVD, whatever and still the batts reach full by dark.

We have 255w of solar and a 2000w and a 400w MSW inverter to run things.

If there were a 12v hot tub , maybe we could try that to see if we could find a way to use up all the solar AH we are getting! 🙂

[Fisherguy]

Using that spreadsheet that's around I come up with 90 aH (but I'm not sure how accurate that is)

[azrving]

Fisher guy
How many amp hours are you using a day?

[Shadow_Catcher]

Something not mentioned is the use of high voltage panels. We have a single 185W panel intended for a grit tie system that puts out 70 no load volts and 35V in shade so no concern with voltage drop. This required a Morningstar MPPT controller. I get usable current from sun up to sun down and in shady camp sites.

[BFL13]

Seems to me if you have a smaller battery bank it would not take as much solar to get them charged up.

However, the amount of solar you need relates to your daily usage, to replace that daily, so now having that much solar, it turns out that (gosh!) if you have a smaller bank then you will have more solar per battery than if you had a bigger bank.

Never mind how many batteries you have, just replace your daily usage. The number of batteries is for cloudy days--how long can you go before the sun comes out again.(including just for overnight!) Has nothing to do with your solar requirements.

Well, you do need one battery!