new non sulphating battery from Soneil

[pianotuna]

It can be used at -40 C

1/3 the cost of Li

80% depth of discharge

1500 cycles

https://soneil.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/12-EFSL-185.pdf

[garycq]

3 tons
That is great information and I greatly thank you for sharing that knowledge and experience. Electrical things have always been outside my natural inclinations so it is people like you that has always been a God sent help!
Gary

[3_tons]

garycq wrote:
Somebody I know highly recommends a 6V GC battery "US battery US145XC2 20 Hour Rate: 251". He told me its a solid battery. I only know of Trojan and Crown 6V GC batteries but I respect this man but I know nothing about "US Batteries". I am rather ignorant on anything electrical so any and all information would be greatly appreciated!

I PM’ed you.

3 tons

[garycq]

Somebody I know highly recommends a 6V GC battery "US battery US145XC2 20 Hour Rate: 251". He told me its a solid battery. I only know of Trojan and Crown 6V GC batteries but I respect this man but I know nothing about "US Batteries". I am rather ignorant on anything electrical so any and all information would be greatly appreciated!

[3_tons]

I’m no real fan of lithium - Cost and recharging below 25 degF would not be favorable to me. But in the context of vibration AFAIK they seem to do ok in electric cars and portable electric tools...

[Itinerant1]

Time will tell with drop in style. I'm using 100ah prismatic cells. 4s5p configuration of 20 cells (500ah/ 6,400wh). I think they're better than what you describe of the multiple little cells made into a battery container.

Being able to see cell individual temps is important.

Edit, browse through this site if you want to know more...http://gwl-power.tumblr.com/tagged/temperature

[pnichols]

Itinerant1 wrote:

pnichols wrote:
The price you show for the heavy Soneil is getting into lithium range, but of course lithium batteries still have a problem that I can't accept even if I could accept their pricing ... as I understand it lithiums can't, or shouldn't, be recharged in low ambient temperatures. :h

Are talking about outside temps or cell temps? Unless your battery is outside unprotected why worry.

I've seen outside temps as low as 25f with my front unheated compartment (other than my inverter/ charger & solar controller throwing a little heat) at 40f +/- and cell temps 45-50f. Using the batteries will warm the cells. Now if temps were dropping into the single digits for an extended time a warming pad or just covering the batteries helps hold them warmer. Just my observations from living off of solar/ lfp 24/7/365 for the past 3 years. Besides longterm psoc won't hurt them. 😉

I'm talking about the temperature of the air surrounding the lithium batteries when they are being charged ... from only what I've read in the forums. Lithium battery supplier websites usually make no mention of this subtle concern - maybe it's of no concern for average RV environments. I believe lead acid technology batteries can be charged in single digit temperatures if the charging voltage is merely increased accordingly.

Another thing that concerns me is lithium battery construction - a whole bunch of little cells making up a large capacity 12V battery - with all of those interconnections that could be prone to failure in the rough environment of an RV traveling on-road, or especially on off-highway washboard roads. When are lithium batteries going to contain just a few large cells with far, far fewer interconnections between them to fail - just like as in lead acid batteries?

Click this link to see the internal construction of a typical drop-in lithium battery for RV use -> these pictures of what's inside are a definite concern to me from a potential-for-failure viewpoint:
https://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/uploads/files/15019/12V%20100AH%20Internal%20Design%20PDF.pdf

[Itinerant1]

pnichols wrote:
The price you show for the heavy Soneil is getting into lithium range, but of course lithium batteries still have a problem that I can't accept even if I could accept their pricing ... as I understand it lithiums can't, or shouldn't, be recharged in low ambient temperatures. :h

Are talking about outside temps or cell temps? Unless your battery is outside unprotected why worry.

I've seen outside temps as low as 25f with my front unheated compartment (other than my inverter/ charger & solar controller throwing a little heat) at 40f +/- and cell temps 45-50f. Using the batteries will warm the cells. Now if temps were dropping into the single digits for an extended time a warming pad or just covering the batteries helps hold them warmer. Just my observations from living off of solar/ lfp 24/7/365 for the past 3 years. Besides longterm psoc won't hurt them. 😉

[pnichols]

pianotuna wrote:
I checked on the price of a 270 amp-hour jar. $1,419.92 Cdn. Weight 154.3 lbs. Too rich for my blood.

Don,

That's why I gave the link in my post above to the 76 lb. Soneil Group 31 battery model ... as it's easier to lift 76 lbs. twice instead of 154.3 lbs. once. Of course the price for that heavy Soneil battery is absurd, too.

As far as AGM performance is concerned versus what they cost for RV use, I got around 8 years of service out of a couple of Group 29 12V Interstate AGM wheel chair batteries before I replaced them with my two Fullrivers. The Interstates were still performing pretty good, but I replaced them at the 8 year point "just in case".

The price you show for the heavy Soneil is getting into lithium range, but of course lithium batteries still have a problem that I can't accept even if I could accept their pricing ... as I understand it lithiums can't, or shouldn't, be recharged in low ambient temperatures. :h

P.S. I'm still getting by 24/7/365 with mostly the stock 13.8 volt converter and Ford engine alternator for taking care of our RV's AGM batteries. I guess I must be lucky. 😉

[pianotuna]

I checked on the price of a 270 amp-hour jar. $1,419.92 Cdn. Weight 154.3 lbs. Too rich for my blood.

[time2roll]

No sulphating? So why does it say recharge immediately after use?

https://soneil.com/product/12-efsn-100/

[pnichols]

Here's a Soneil AGM battery in the more common Group 31 size that you can lift easier and that provides 250 AH of capacity from two of them in parallel: https://soneil.com/product/12-efsl-125/

And here's a Lifeline AGM battery very close in size, weight, and identical 250 AH capacity from two of them in parallel: http://lifelinebatteries.com/products/marine-batteries/gpl-31xt/

I wonder how the two Group 31 models compare in price and life cycles?

Also note the relatively high internal resistance of the Soneil battery ... so I wonder if it will charge as fast as the competing Lifeline Group 31?

I guess that a big difference between the two batteries is that the Soneil is manufactured in China.

[Lwiddis]

This and Trojan’s new lithium...exciting times.

[jkwilson]

What parameter seems special for a 110lb battery?

[Son_of_Norway]

How much and how could I get one in Denver?