Replacing magnetek 6300 with inverter/charger

[nakedgun]

Hello all,

I have a 1994 coachmen class B RV which I'm in the process of re-modelling. It has a stock magnetek 6300 converter. It has been upgraded with solar and a battery isolator for charging the house battery when driving.

My goal is to be able to use all of the built in outlets whether on-grid/off-grid. We mainly boondock so 80% of the time this is going to be without shore power. But having this as an option is handy.

I've found a relatively good deal on a xantrex 2000 pure sine inverter/charger which I'd like to hook up. My plan was to remove the charger on the magnetek 6300 but re-purpose the AC/DC distribution panels.

Does anyone know whether this is safe? Or is it better to remove the entire unit and add a new AC/DC distribution panel instead?

I have mainly worked with DC systems before (very basic) so still learning. Appreciate any advice or tutorials which might be relevant here!

Pictures of the magnetek panel:

***Link Removed***
***Link Removed***

[2oldman]

Gdetrailer wrote:
Is far more appropriate for today's modern safety standards..

Good for you.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Dang you got in my switch stash. This snap action can be switched at full load. **** fine units.

[Gdetrailer]

2oldman wrote:
Chinese knife switch.

:R :E



Good grief!

There ARE much better and safer more modern switches that one can use..

Something like this?



Is far more appropriate for today's modern safety standards..

That one is three pole rotary cam switch with ON-OFF-ON positions and can handle 20A for a mere $11, it can switch hot, neutral and ground at the same time has "break before make" switching.. Found HERE

[2oldman]

Chinese knife switch.

[wa8yxm]

I should add I had a 2000 watt in my motor home but I used it to power (on the 120 volt side) Televisions Computers. Microwave, Kitchen/bath outlets (GFCI) Normally I ran on shore power but there were times (if I was not using A/C) that I'd lose shore power and not even notice. The inverter was set to UPS mode (instant takeover) later in life it ran into not enough battery issues but it still ran all the electronics no tribble. still could if I moved a plug.

[pianotuna]

Many of us have two inverters. One for loads up to 300 watts. And then another for the heavy loads.

I have a female plug that is powered from the inverter. I simply plug in the male 30 amp shore power cord.

I leave my converter unplugged.

I added a plug for the water heater.

I manually set the fridge to propane.

In your shoes, I would go with the 375 watt Victron.

https://www.amazon.ca/Victron-Energy-Phoenix-Inverter-VE-Direct/dp/B01N0W4H34/ref=asc_df_B01N0W4H34/...

When you expand the battery bank, consider if you need a larger inverter.

[nakedgun]

time2roll wrote:
Romex is a brand name to NM-B wire used to wire houses and many RVs. It is the group of three wires to carry power to where it is needed.

You first need to discover what is connected to each branch. Then you remove the Hot and Neutral to connect to the transfer switch. I think you understand it.

Transfer switch will have a diagram. Only the Hot and Neutral are switched. The ground just flows through always.

https://www.donrowe.com/v/vspfiles/pdf/ts15_ts20_owners_guide.pdf

You could swap in some different breakers if you need to isolate something. Looks like two branch circuits are ganged up on one breaker. That might be the converter.

Looks like a GFCI breaker on the right that I don't see a Hot connection. Maybe some issue is tripping the GFCI and the wire was moved instead of fixing the issue. Or maybe the picture resolution is difficult to confirm.

Thank you. Yeah the breaker on the right confused me too. I'll read up more on this approach. As I understand it, it'll limit us to the outlets on that circuit though.

If I can't figure this out, I was thinking of adding a simple manual 3 phase rotary switch which toggles between the 30a supply line (shore power), inverter output or OFF. This connects to the AC distribution panel power in. As 2oldman mentioned, also adding a spst switch on the 120v supply wire to the Magnatek charger.

So when we want the inverter powering all outlets, toggle the rotary switch to INVERTER and turn off the converter. When we want shore power, toggle the rotary switch to SHORE POWER and turn on the converter. The 99% use case is boondocking and turning on the inverter for small periods, so we're OK with this being a manual thing. Would that also work? We're not going to be using much juice - 2x80w laptop chargers at most. Everything else is DC.

[time2roll]

Romex is a brand name to NM-B wire used to wire houses and many RVs. It is the group of three wires to carry power to where it is needed.

You first need to discover what is connected to each branch. Then you remove the Hot and Neutral to connect to the transfer switch. I think you understand it.

Transfer switch will have a diagram. Only the Hot and Neutral are switched. The ground just flows through always.

https://www.donrowe.com/v/vspfiles/pdf/ts15_ts20_owners_guide.pdf

You could swap in some different breakers if you need to isolate something. Looks like two branch circuits are ganged up on one breaker. That might be the converter.

Looks like a GFCI breaker on the right that I don't see a Hot connection. Maybe some issue is tripping the GFCI and the wire was moved instead of fixing the issue. Or maybe the picture resolution is difficult to confirm.

[nakedgun]

Gdetrailer wrote:

nakedgun wrote:

Thanks, all great tips. Will definitely consider the remote switch - didn't know the idle draw was so high on the inverter!


...Now I just need to make a call on the 2000w vs something smaller.

Yes, inverters can have a pretty high idle current, generally the higher wattage inverter, the higher the idle current will be.

It is for that reason why some boondockers will employ a low wattage inverter for low wattage needs (300W-400W for say TV, entertainment) and a higher wattage inverter for heavy 120V needs and only run them when needed.

For extremely low wattage items like charging your phone, tablet, laptop PC consider buying 12V chargers designed to take 12V directly and convert to the needed application.

Pretty much any device that uses 5V USB connection to charge you can buy a cig lighter style 12V to 5V USB charger that will work great and has extremely low idle current draw when compared to any inverter.



$5-$10..

Just need to add in a couple of cig lighter power points..

You can also buy built in 12V to 5V USB charging ports..

$8-$15



For laptops, you can buy a "universal" 12V to laptop power supply, uses changeable "tips" that sets the voltage and current for your laptop..







That one is a 90W universal laptop supply I bought for DDs loaded i7 laptop.. DD liked it so much that she only uses that power supply for her laptop! Bought it back in 2019 and so far, she hasn't broke the power supply yet. Best of all, it can not only operate from 12V but 120V also and even has built in 5V USB charging port to boot!

Found ***Link Removed*** for $35

Just verify that the power supply you choose has a compatible tip for your PC..

Thank you! Good tips. Already installed a USB hub for charging the smaller devices. The laptop thing looks interesting but we have older Macs so I don't think that'll work. The newer macbooks use usb-c and have 12v chargers available. But yeah, very expensive pieces of kit!

time2roll wrote:

nakedgun wrote:

time2roll wrote:
I would skip the big inverter/charger for your described use. 300 watt inverter will work fine. Add a small transfer switch to the branch circuit and use the existing outlets. Replace the converter for faster charging of the AGM batteries.

Thank you. Pardon my ignorance, but the transfer switch would connect the 30a shore supply line/inverter output and feed into the 30a supply line into the distribution panel? In this scenario, is it necessary to disconnect the Magnatek charger to prevent a power loop, or would the transfer switch handle that automagically? A link to an online product would appreciated, so I can investigate more.

Thanks all for your help.

No. Just power the one branch circuit for the outlets. Remove the branch circuit Romex from the breaker and connect to the transfer switch output. The transfer switch input connects to the inverter and that now empty breaker.

Thank you! I'm a little confused though - you'll have to bare with me as I'm only used to DC systems.

In this picture you'll notice there are 3 breakers installed: https://ibb.co/gTGrqnV

I am assuming the first 30A breaker is for shore power. The second one powers some 15/20a circuits - and I think supplies power to the charger below. Last one is a 15a. So in my simple understanding, the first is an input circuit (which feeds the adjacent breakers) - which are output circuits.

When you say "Remove the branch circuit Romex from the breaker and connect to the transfer switch output" - what breaker would this refer to? I am not sure what a branch circuit Romex is. I get that there are live, neutral and ground wires - the top bar is ground, the left is neutral. That's about the extent of my understanding of this thing.

If I feel like the above is outside of my comfort zone worst case I'll run a cord from inverter > shore power hookup and add the spst switch on the 120v line to the converter. It's a little manual but could work.

[wa8yxm]

Your plan sounds good.. more on the Laptops later.
The Magnetek 6300 the front is the fuse/breaker panels. nothing wrong with them save the fuses can be harder to find (not much harder) than the modern blade fuses. the electronics behind the panel ...> Take to a scrap yard and get paid for 'em.

now the inverter/charger. That puppy needs at the minimum 2 pair of GC-2 to be really happy. (You have the Cargo capacity since the stuff you just recycled is about one pair or at least half a pair weight wise) and the inverter needs to be CLOSE but not in the same air space.

Use at least 00 ga cables. 0000 if you can get and fit them. Try to keep 'em short 3-6 feet tops. and for as much of the run as possible tape them side by side (This last from Xantrex support back when they had good support).

I used 00's on my Xantrex inverters.. I'm using lighter cable now but well the UPSewd loads only amount to very few watts (it's my 12 volt converter/charger about the only thing plugged in is a air freshener) so a 200 amp load. not happening.

on the laptop supplies... I've used 12V supplies on laptops and they worked well.... HOWEVER it really messed up a radio if I connected it to the laptop. (no problem if it was not connected to the laptop, no problem if using a 120VAC brick for power) Oh the current Xantrex.. Still powers that radio. no longer in an RV but it still powers that radio.. (Bit of over kill but hey... I had it on hand)

[time2roll]

nakedgun wrote:

time2roll wrote:
I would skip the big inverter/charger for your described use. 300 watt inverter will work fine. Add a small transfer switch to the branch circuit and use the existing outlets. Replace the converter for faster charging of the AGM batteries.

Thank you. Pardon my ignorance, but the transfer switch would connect the 30a shore supply line/inverter output and feed into the 30a supply line into the distribution panel? In this scenario, is it necessary to disconnect the Magnatek charger to prevent a power loop, or would the transfer switch handle that automagically? A link to an online product would appreciated, so I can investigate more.

Thanks all for your help.

No. Just power the one branch circuit for the outlets. Remove the branch circuit Romex from the breaker and connect to the transfer switch output. The transfer switch input connects to the inverter and that now empty breaker.

KISAE TS 15 amp $50

I have and recommend the GoPower 300w for low idle draw (200 mA) and a provision for a remote power switch.

GP 300w SW on Amazon $150

If you mount the inverter behind or near the power center you can make all the connections right there. Use the main battery feed for 12v power. No pulling wire. Just add the remote and get on with camping.

You do need to be aware of any items on that branch circuit to either disable or set to propane only.

[Gdetrailer]

nakedgun wrote:

Thanks, all great tips. Will definitely consider the remote switch - didn't know the idle draw was so high on the inverter!


...Now I just need to make a call on the 2000w vs something smaller.

Yes, inverters can have a pretty high idle current, generally the higher wattage inverter, the higher the idle current will be.

It is for that reason why some boondockers will employ a low wattage inverter for low wattage needs (300W-400W for say TV, entertainment) and a higher wattage inverter for heavy 120V needs and only run them when needed.

For extremely low wattage items like charging your phone, tablet, laptop PC consider buying 12V chargers designed to take 12V directly and convert to the needed application.

Pretty much any device that uses 5V USB connection to charge you can buy a cig lighter style 12V to 5V USB charger that will work great and has extremely low idle current draw when compared to any inverter.



$5-$10..

Just need to add in a couple of cig lighter power points..

You can also buy built in 12V to 5V USB charging ports..

$8-$15



For laptops, you can buy a "universal" 12V to laptop power supply, uses changeable "tips" that sets the voltage and current for your laptop..







That one is a 90W universal laptop supply I bought for DDs loaded i7 laptop.. DD liked it so much that she only uses that power supply for her laptop! Bought it back in 2019 and so far, she hasn't broke the power supply yet. Best of all, it can not only operate from 12V but 120V also and even has built in 5V USB charging port to boot!

Found HERE for $35

Just verify that the power supply you choose has a compatible tip for your PC..

[nakedgun]

Gdetrailer wrote:
You can also add a small inverter and add in a couple of new outlets just for that inverter in a couple of convenient places.

Hint, used a different colored outlet to indicate that it is only the inverter output. You can also use a plug from your added wiring to plug into a inverter, while not as ideal as a hard wired setup it is not a big problem either as long as you are not trying to power heavy current items.

Since you are also planning to mostly boondock, perhaps might want to consider some sort of "remote" capability to turn off the inverter when not needed..

That can easily save you a lot of battery capacity.. Typical inverters can have a no load idle current of .5A-2A.. That is 12Ahr-48Ahr of battery capacity used just to run the inverter per 24 hrs.

Thanks, all great tips. Will definitely consider the remote switch - didn't know the idle draw was so high on the inverter!

2oldman wrote:

nakedgun wrote:
What would be ideal would be to tap the 30a supply line (somehow) with an additional 30a receptacle which the inverter plugs into - just for ease of connecting/disconnecting. Not sure if there's a gizmo for this use case - I guess this is the role of a transfer switch?

Just to clarify - the 120v supply wire to the Magnatek. This should probably be the black wire going into the lower charger unit right?

Yes, a transfer switch would be indicated for that. Smaller inverters won't likely have one. I got tired of Xfer switches burning out so now I just have a big manual knife switch.

I think my Mag supply lines were white and black. Doesn't matter which one you intercept.

Great, that helps clarify things - thank you.

Now I just need to make a call on the 2000w vs something smaller.

[2oldman]

nakedgun wrote:
What would be ideal would be to tap the 30a supply line (somehow) with an additional 30a receptacle which the inverter plugs into - just for ease of connecting/disconnecting. Not sure if there's a gizmo for this use case - I guess this is the role of a transfer switch?

Just to clarify - the 120v supply wire to the Magnatek. This should probably be the black wire going into the lower charger unit right?

Yes, a transfer switch would be indicated for that. Smaller inverters won't likely have one. I got tired of Xfer switches burning out so now I just have a big manual knife switch.

I think my Mag supply lines were white and black. Doesn't matter which one you intercept.

[Gdetrailer]

You can also add a small inverter and add in a couple of new outlets just for that inverter in a couple of convenient places.

Hint, used a different colored outlet to indicate that it is only the inverter output. You can also use a plug from your added wiring to plug into a inverter, while not as ideal as a hard wired setup it is not a big problem either as long as you are not trying to power heavy current items.

Since you are also planning to mostly boondock, perhaps might want to consider some sort of "remote" capability to turn off the inverter when not needed..

That can easily save you a lot of battery capacity.. Typical inverters can have a no load idle current of .5A-2A.. That is 12Ahr-48Ahr of battery capacity used just to run the inverter per 24 hrs.