Trojan t-1275 vs Signature series J150 RE

[landyacht318]

Before winter, I need to get a dedicated flooded house battery, my Northstar AGM-27 has been working hard as both house and engine battery for the last 4 months, and I want to return it to engine starting duty/emergency capacity duty.

The battery I have been desiring and planning on, is the Trojan T-1275.

Recently, I became aware of the J150 signature series which is marketed as a renewable energy battery.

The case size is the same, but for handle differences which make the J150 3/4" wider. I can fit either, but no taller. No t105's, no J185s. Only the T-1275 or the J150, or Smaller. I am not going for any smaller flooded 31 or 27 size ever again. They are rated for only half the cycles as the t1275 or j150.

The J150 weighs 2 Lbs more than the T-1275, at 84Lbs
The J150RE also states it has an Absorption voltage range of 14.1v to 14.7v
The T-1275 says absorption voltage is to be 14.8v. No range, just 14.8.

What are we to infer by this Wide absorption voltage range on the RE line?

I was hoping it would mean the battery would be happier on my low and slow 198 watts of low and slow solar, compared to the golf cart's, 10 to 13% 'recommended' charge rate.

If this were true, would it then protest being fed a 30 to 50% rate from my alternator? My vehicle also will allow upto 14.9v and this is hammered in stone, just as no more solar is possible on my roof.

T-1275 Spec sheet

Signature Series J150 Renewable Energy

The Non RE J150 is also 84 Lbs, 2 lbs more than the T-1275, but also states 14.8v Absorption voltage.
Trojan J150

So, is the RE battery just a different sticker and a lower ABSV to appeal to the renewable energy market?

Kind of like how Condorde markets Lifeline AGM and SunExtender AGM lines while the specs and PDFs would indicate they are the same exact battery?

I know a call or Email to Trojan is in order, but I was hoping for Some MexWanderer pontification on these ponderables.

[westend]

I thought you probably had a cross-hair on the Deep Cycle store but posted just in case.

Yeah, batteries are one of a few things where nomenclature gets fuzzy around the edges. Folks like Walmart skew it further by rating capacity using different AH ratings (20 hr vs 5 hr, etc).

Too bad your rig doesn't have an interior space for mounting a battery. I smile every time I have to access my 6 V bank. They are in a ventilated floor mount box adjacent to the entry door.
Hey, if you have a Ford chassis, Torflex makes frame mount tray for certain models. Just a thought. Would probably be a b*&ch for maintenance though.

You're certainly welcome on the heatsinks. I'm glad they're doing something besides gathering dust. Wish I had a dust-generated energy source, I could power a small city, lol.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Muffin fan some air across those heatsinks and watch the cold front move in. Losing 26 degrees is no laughing matter.

[landyacht318]

Westend,
That is where I got the Lifeline GPL-31XT from in June for my friend's portable power pack. The guy dropped it off at my address fresh from Concorde's West Covina location, and I believe not too far from trojan's distributor in the LA area.

It is who I was planning on using to acquire the T-1275 for me.

American Battery in Escondido is a half hour drive for me, and will repeat over and over. 'A marine battery is a deep cycle battery' as they slap deep cycle stickers on marine batteries. I got my Northstar there as well as the screwy31. I returned a Crown marine battery that had such a sticker on it, and was nearly 10 Lbs lighter than Crown's 31 deep cycle, and performed poorly on my 10 hour 50% capacity test.

The guy who delivered me The Lifeline 31 battery told me about the Deka telecom battery that Niner wound up with. I'm gonna be an observer on the telecom batteries in RV usage. I really want to dip my hydrometer and observe the behavior of the battery in use.

And of course my space for a battery is limited to something in the size range of the T-1275. I could go perhaps half an inch wider, and an inch taller, but no longer, and still this is going to require some fairly involved fabrication to make the room and to be strong enough to support/contain an 82 LB battery with possible forced ventilation to protect from underhood engine heat.

Thanks for those heatsinks BTW, they were extremely hot just a few hours ago as my Northstar AGM was maxing out my Meanwell at 40 amps, as I depleted 61AH out of its 90AH last night. Now the solar can finish the absorption and then float the rest of the day, high amp recharge parameter met.

[westend]

LY,
Have any dealings with Deep Cycle Battery Store in El Cajon? They are an authorized Trojan Dist. and may have both the batteries mentioned in stock. Bring your bath scale or have them scale them for accurate comparison.

You may want to check out their refurb UPS AGM's while you're there. $125 for 145AH AGM's sounds too good to be true. Alcatel/Lucent is what they have pictured on their website.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

There were days with my system I simply shut down all loads. I loaded the Dometic FC140 freezer with reefer food, turned the temp up and let the panels have at the batteries. A small reading light at night.

1.300 bothers me. It's flat out too acidic for temperatures above 32F when 5.0% antimony is involved, unless the newer generation industrial batteries are now constructed with hybrid technology. Adding 2% calcium to the negative plates changes the profile on a battery like this and I mean utterly.

Squirm and squeal the OEMs may, there is no way an increase from 1.275 to 1.300 is NOT going to accelerate corrosive loss of the positive plate material. I'm not talking about subtlety here. This is major league stuff. Reducing positive antimony from 5% to say 3% impacts cycle life.

Curious. Are these readings being established with a Freas instrument?

[landyacht318]

Thanks BFL.

I consider every discharge cycle a load test, just not one that conforms to a tablet written in stone somewhere.

Minimum/morning voltage at how many AH removed, compare to previous discharges. What variables changed? Repeat, observe, change variable, take Sg readings, ect.

Knowing the manufacture claimed rested 50% voltage level is good too. I have done the AH/20, apply that ~load for 10 hours, remove load and see where voltage rebounds to.

My Northstar AGM does very well on this test. Rated at 90AH, I think it is closer to 100AH, still.

I do not generator recharge. I can plug in, I can choose to not even cycle any battery.

But I want my system to perform well without 120Vac available at all.
This requires alternator contribution, and maximum alternator contribution at that, preferably early morning high amp blasting, having to solar complete the task throughout the day, and perhaps some more alternator contribution after sundown.

So where some will run a generator and choose the highest amp charger their generator can run, to minimize generator run times, well my drives are generally short, so same strategy, maximum amperage into battery. I will not Idle the engine to recharge.

So an AGM battery, one that openly says, there s no upper amperage limit, more is better, fits that maximum contribution desire nicely.

But it does not like a solar only low and slow day after day.

The Trojan T-1275 might not enjoy 55 to 75 amps from the alternator, but it will be happier on low and slow solar.

There are many days where I stay put, don't start the engine at all, and rely solely on the solar.

The T-1275 should be the biggest most true deep cycle battery that can best meet my requirements and fit my intended location. Everything is a compromise, but the compromises I will not make anymore is using a flooded group 27 or 31 and trying to trick myself, with the help of the marketing and the sticker on the side, that it is an actual deep cycle battery.

What I really want to know about, is that 2 pound difference on the spec sheets between the J150 and the T-1275, but either way, either battery will outperform the screwy31, unless it simply self destructs at 75 alternator amps.

[BFL13]

In support of my suggestion for LY to use a T-1275, some data.

I found my old notes on recovering the T-1275s after getting them from the golf car people in 2013 (they were new in 2011) I will show each battery SG from pos to neg, with the battery numbers 4 and 1 as marked on them.

I deducted 0.005 from all the actual new readings, because they were taken with the fluid below the split rings but above the plates, where the older SGs were with the fluid up higher. Eg, when I got 1.300 this time, I show 1.295.

First set of SGs (A.) is from after recovery ( by late 2013) in March 2014 and second set (B.) is from a few days ago.

Battery 4
A. 1.280, 75, 70, 90, 75, 75
B. 1.295, 80, 75, 95, 95, 95

Battery 1
A. 70, 70, 90, 75, 75, 75
B. 80, 80, 95, 80, 80, 75

(When I first got them, their SGs were stuck in the 1.250-65 range when "full")

So IMO this shows something good about T-1275s, especially the way mine get used.

I have not been able to equalize their SGs. I don't have a charger that can do over 15.7v. Mex says there is a world of difference by going just a little higher to 16v. (the Trojan spec for equalizing T-1275s is 15.5 though.) They may just be too beat up from the golf car days to ever get equal SGs. They load test ok, getting 90% of rated after recovery (270AH achieved of 300AH rated as a pair) Haven't done a load test lately to compare.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Westend hit it perfectly.

Judging high amperage positive plate erosion "worth" is a long session ballet with an adding machine. The means has to be justified by the end. Cents or fractions thereof per total kWh rendered. My cost column includes generator wearout, driving for refueling, oil changes - every damned last nickel it costs to keep energy in the battery bank. In my case it is a 55-mile round trip eating 4 gallons of fuel to fill 55 gallon drums. = 14 US Dollars. Oil filters cost a few pennies under five dollars oil costs eight dollars a quart an S series Raycor filter around 11 dollars.

But it is all feeding a horribly expensive set of batteries.

When my son-in-law needs to recharge his LTH ciclando profundo gr 27 boat battery during an outage is when trouble brews - or used to. No way was the Kubota going to roar for that.

Answer? A DC to DC converter with 25-amp capability. Set to 14.8 volts. Charge lead wires are SIXTEEN AWG to control max amperage. His battery has 12-15 hours to suck off the Rolls 24-volt bank before he goes night air compressor diving again. Lobster. Legally with a license. Most of the kWh activity is for lighting.

Just like pure boondocking is utterly different as far as battery maintenance is concerned, recharging potential optimums are utterly dependent on kWh cost and time available to recharge. For a 100 AH flooded battery it would be tough to beat a 15 ampere limit on max bulk charging. Minimizing plate erosion costs nothing. No penalty.

But move that scenario way back in the wilderness and it's a different ballgame - utterly. Slow charging via generator is like leaving white French truffles, Beluga caviar, and Chateau Lafite Rothschild, for the babysitter to snack on. Don't forget the Monte Cristo and Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee using water imported from Tuscany. Daddy Warbucks types can forget all this and head for the 200 dollar per day 5-star golf links hideaway and pop all six slideouts.

[landyacht318]

Arrrrghhh, ye are no a poet Niner.

PT, Trojan puts the L-16 in the same category as the T-105 and the J150 at 1200 cycles at 50% DOD.

Their 24/27/31's are rated for half that and are probably the top dog flooded batteries in that size format.

But call me extra skeptical of all marketing henceforth, on each and every product, covering each and every aspect of any claim, with a scornful and blistering contempt for those who write the flowery documentation they actually expect the consumer to believe.

If that conveys my feelings on the matter.

http://www.trojanbattery.com/products/deep-cycle-flooded/signature-line-flooded-2/

[NinerBikes]

landyacht318 wrote:
I have to be really trying to deplete 65AH overnight, so the screwy 31's cycles were mostly in the 60% to 65% SOC range, and I did not get 500 before removal from daily deep cycling.

I don't believe any of those lab rated cycle charts.

Trojans 24/27/31 batteries are Lab rated for 600 cycles to 50%
Their t1275/t015/L-16 are rated for 1200 cycles to 50%

Trojans reliant AGMs say 1000 cycles to 50%.

Too many variables can skew the actual numbers achieved.

I'll do my best to log the future battery's behavior in my usage, but how it will pertain to other's usage is another matter.

What Should I name the future thread, The life and times of the leaded Maroon Balloon?

Life with a Trojan T-1275 RVing full time. Maroon, maybe, 82 or 84# anchor, for sure.

[pianotuna]

Hi landy,

Comparing an L-16 to a "normal" battery is not a level playing field.

[landyacht318]

I have to be really trying to deplete 65AH overnight, so the screwy 31's cycles were mostly in the 60% to 65% SOC range, and I did not get 500 before removal from daily deep cycling.

I don't believe any of those lab rated cycle charts.

Trojans 24/27/31 batteries are Lab rated for 600 cycles to 50%
Their t-1275/t-105/L-16 are rated for 1200 cycles to 50%

Trojans reliant AGMs say 1000 cycles to 50%.

Too many variables can skew the actual numbers achieved.

I'll do my best to log the future battery's behavior in my usage, but how it will pertain to other's usage is another matter.

What Should I name the future thread, The life and times of the leaded Maroon Balloon?

[pianotuna]

On the other side of the coin, an AGM will give him 1000 cycles to 50% or 2000 cycles to 75% (i.e. 25% used).

Inverter use will not consume as much of the battery bank in an AGM as there is lower voltage drop under load.

[NinerBikes]

My opinion... the T-1275 is a known entity. Enough folks here have salvaged them out of golf carts and made them useful again, for a couple of years or more.

Charge with 14.8V, all the time... every day with solar panels. 15.0_15.2V when colder, once every 5 to 7 days for a top charge, for one day. Do that for 2 weeks, or a month, and measure your SG after a month. Has it sagged? Let is sit and charge at15.2V for 2 days.

Did it improve the SG?
Yes? good.

No? Equalize charge. Adjust as necessary, or ask Mex for more or better advice.

Trojan should get you 500 to 1000 recharges, just depends how deep you drop state of charge every night, 60 to 70% SOC in the morning, more recharge cycles, 50% SOC, closer to 500 recharges. Check out the Trojan graph for recharges and depth of discharge to cycle lifes.

We know that you know how to quickly figure out what works best for the battery, after the US Battery Screwy 31 adventures and notes. Or if you've forgotten, go back and review that thread.

Maybe by the time your T-1275 no longer suits your needs, Li batteries will be affordable for us mere mortals.

If you get a good, fresh battery, and you get 4 to 5 years out of it, full timing, daily...You've done as good as it gets.


AGMS, are not so wasteful of amps put in, versus amps supplied, design has much less internal resistance.

[landyacht318]

Did the screwy31 thread really reach 100 pages?

The T-1275 should certainly prove to be a superior battery to the USbattery Screwy31. Trojan's own group 31 likely would do better, but my source for either, the price is the same for the 31 or the t1275.

I was a little late to the maximum SG party with the Screwy31, 2 months after purchase I noticed voltage tanking with not many AH removed and then the acquired hydrometer revealed the Abs duration and height to be too low for too little. the turkey baster also revealed the screwy31 to be a masochist though. 14.9v for 3 hours then 15.3v the rest of the day. That is hideous!

But it did inspire great back and forth and lots of learning on how to find an individual batteries sweet spot in a certain usage, and ~465 deep cycles before removal from service is not too bad. Heck it is not dead yet. I stuffed 27AH into it yesterday so it can power fans and lights and Tv in my workshop.

I hope to treat the T-1275 right from cycle number one, and hopefully it does not need to be top charged every day with a 15.3v float/finish voltage and equalized every 14 days for ~ 2 hours at 16v, like the screwy31 did.

That battery wasted so much juice getting to 1.275+ it was criminal.

I was so impressed with that lifeline GPL-31XT that it is hard to not desire that, but the T-1275 is half its price, 25 more AH, and lets me collect more data.