1/2 ton or 3/4 ton

[SRadke]

Hey Everyone!
My wife and I are looking to buy a truck and trailer within the next year and need some guidance. I posted in the TT forum with this same type of question and I am getting some good responses, but thought I would post here as well just in case there are more/different opinions here.
We are looking to buy a bunkhouse style TT with a GVWR of around 7,500 lbs. To pull it our initial thought was to us a 2018 F150 2 wheel drive V8. The math works on the payload, towing, and gross weight, but it is pushing the upper limits of what the truck is able to do.

What do people here use to pull trailers like this?

What kind of margin do y'all like to keep between what you are pulling and the limits of your truck?

Would it be better to go with a slightly older 3/4 ton truck than a slightly newer 1/2 ton truck?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[smarty]

3/4 ton, safer and piece of mind

[deltabravo]

Huntindog wrote:
A diesel with that milage is viewed as broken in.

And as far as years go... I have been updating my trucks at about 10 years. The diesel premium has been there for me.

I've had my current truck 10 years. Sadly, it doesn't get driven much. I'd like a new truck to get all the new technology features, but it hardly makes sense to buy a new one when my current 10 year old truck only has 62k miles on it. I'm not one of those old retired guys that sits around home and doesn't travel. I still work full time, and the truck simply isn't my daily driver.

If I won the lottery, I'd buy a GMC. The new Chevy HD trucks are a hideous looking mess

[ls1mike]

Huntindog wrote:
Many people view a gas truck with 150K miles as worn out. A diesel with that milage is viewed as broken in.

What people? Do you have a Facebook page? I will just talk GM here but over at the GMT 800 board which is HUGE compared to this place 150,000 is just broken in on an LS based gasser. There are threads every week about high mileage gassers. You should take a look if you get a chance. This isn't 1960. I am not saying a gasser will out last a diesel but there are literally 10's of thousands of 4.8, 5.3 and 6.0 trucks with well over 250,000 miles on them putting in work everyday on the original engine and transmission.
They have a running thread for gas trucks with over 500,000 miles on them and its a pretty good size list.

[ShinerBock]

Huntindog wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

mich800 wrote:

IdaD wrote:
An HD truck in OP's scenario is a no brainer. It's literally more truck for the same money, and it not only works better for the current trailer but also allows for more flexibility moving forward - and the compromises in moving from a 1/2 ton to a SRW HD are minimal. I think the compromises involved in moving from a SRW HD to a dually are much more significant.

I wouldn't say it is a no brainer. Everyone has a list of priority items. If a 1/2 ton that falls into the category of towing trailer and meets the other criteria better than a larger truck why should they make a purchase that falls short in the other areas.

And I don't subscribe to the mantra here to over purchase as you may upgrade later. If that is the case everyone would purchase a 4+ bedroom home as their first house because who knows if you will have kids or the parents/in-laws need to move in later. And switching trucks is surely easier than switching houses.

Houses appreciate. Trucks depreciate.
Big difference.

While this is true, unless you paid cash, you are still likely to loose your anus because you are paying nothing but interest for the first 10 years which puts you in the negative in the grand scheme of things.

That would only be true, if you had a free place to live for those 10 years.
For us mortals, a house payment took/takes the place of a rent payment.

Same goes with a truck payment unless you get that for free.

I am about to buy my 5th truck. None of them had payments.... Point is, it is possible for many to get in that position, if they manage their finances early on.

It is MUCH more difficult to do this with a house.

At any rate, if you make payments on both a house and a truck, you will pay interest on each. The house payment is a better financial move. Houses generally increase in value. Trucks generally decrease.

The house I am in now has more than quadrupled, since 1991 when I bought it. For most of that time, the payments were less than rent.
That makes the interest I paid a moot point. That is what apreciation does

If I were to have made truck payments on 5 trucks over that same time period.... I would not have much to show for it. In fact for much of that time, I would likely have been upside down. That is what depreciation does

I am talking short term. On a $200k financed home with a 5% interest(which is a good rate and the average was 9% in 1991), you will pay $99k in interest in 10 years of ownership on top of tens of thousands in taxes that you wouldn't pay if you rent. Umm, The interest rate I started with is not the one I ended with. I refinanced (no cash out) as soon as it made sense to do so. My final rate was 3.5% for a 15 year loan. In fact, one time early on because of my aggresive prepayments, I was able to refinance into a home equity loan which happened to have a lower rate but with a higher equity requirement! The best move to make when interest rates are high, is to prepay as much as possible and avoid much of the interest.. Also, when you rent, you DO pay property taxes! It is built into the rent payment! A lot of otherwise smart people don't realize this. With inflation over the course of 10 years it will be much higher. Over the total course of the 30 year loan you will pay over $186K in interest. Again, it will be much higher in 30 years when accounting for inflation.

With inflation, $100k in 1991 is equivalent to $188k now so much of your home value did not necessarily go up. It is just a dollar is worth less now. So if you calculate for inflation, taxes paid, and interest paid, your home value would have to quadruple at the end of the 30 year note just for you to break even.

So if you financed a $100k house in 1991 at the average 9% interest, you would have paid $189k in interest. Add that to the $100k you paid and you get $289k total not including taxes. With inflation, that is the equivalent of $544k from 1991 to now. So even quadrupling the houses value will still not put you ahead.This makes no sense at all. Your loan balance does not increase with inflation. Inflation with a home loan is your friend. You pay the loan off with cheaper dollars.

I am pretty much done here. It is a rare person that will make an financial argument against home ownership....

As always, your money, your choice.

I am not making an argument against home ownership. Just because I am stating facts and numbers about something doesn't mean I am against it. I am just saying that many people don't come out on the plus side or as much on the plus side as they think when they do the math and account for all things.

A 3.5% interest rate is unheard of before 2012..
Interest rates by year
Historical home interest rates

The inflation is on the money spent on the loan and interest. The value of that will decrease and it will take more of it to buy stuff. You also have to account for the cost on money and so on.

[sgfrye]

3/4 ton gasser pick one you like the best of the 3 big 3

[Huntindog]

valhalla360 wrote:
I know there will be people who come back and disagree but when you get 10-15yrs out, don't count on getting a $10k premium on resale for a diesel.

Last couple times we were shopping, there was little if any premium at that price point.

Many people view a gas truck with 150K miles as worn out. A diesel with that milage is viewed as broken in.

And as far as years go... I have been updating my trucks at about 10 years. The diesel premium has been there for me.
My present truck was 57K out the door in 2010.
I am getting 31K for it now. That works out to 2600 a year.Or 216 a month. That works for me.

[Huntindog]

ShinerBock wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

mich800 wrote:

IdaD wrote:
An HD truck in OP's scenario is a no brainer. It's literally more truck for the same money, and it not only works better for the current trailer but also allows for more flexibility moving forward - and the compromises in moving from a 1/2 ton to a SRW HD are minimal. I think the compromises involved in moving from a SRW HD to a dually are much more significant.

I wouldn't say it is a no brainer. Everyone has a list of priority items. If a 1/2 ton that falls into the category of towing trailer and meets the other criteria better than a larger truck why should they make a purchase that falls short in the other areas.

And I don't subscribe to the mantra here to over purchase as you may upgrade later. If that is the case everyone would purchase a 4+ bedroom home as their first house because who knows if you will have kids or the parents/in-laws need to move in later. And switching trucks is surely easier than switching houses.

Houses appreciate. Trucks depreciate.
Big difference.

While this is true, unless you paid cash, you are still likely to loose your anus because you are paying nothing but interest for the first 10 years which puts you in the negative in the grand scheme of things.

That would only be true, if you had a free place to live for those 10 years.
For us mortals, a house payment took/takes the place of a rent payment.

Same goes with a truck payment unless you get that for free.

I am about to buy my 5th truck. None of them had payments.... Point is, it is possible for many to get in that position, if they manage their finances early on.

It is MUCH more difficult to do this with a house.

At any rate, if you make payments on both a house and a truck, you will pay interest on each. The house payment is a better financial move. Houses generally increase in value. Trucks generally decrease.

The house I am in now has more than quadrupled, since 1991 when I bought it. For most of that time, the payments were less than rent.
That makes the interest I paid a moot point. That is what apreciation does

If I were to have made truck payments on 5 trucks over that same time period.... I would not have much to show for it. In fact for much of that time, I would likely have been upside down. That is what depreciation does

I am talking short term. On a $200k financed home with a 5% interest(which is a good rate and the average was 9% in 1991), you will pay $99k in interest in 10 years of ownership on top of tens of thousands in taxes that you wouldn't pay if you rent. Umm, The interest rate I started with is not the one I ended with. I refinanced (no cash out) as soon as it made sense to do so. My final rate was 3.5% for a 15 year loan. In fact, one time early on because of my aggresive prepayments, I was able to refinance into a home equity loan which happened to have a lower rate but with a higher equity requirement! The best move to make when interest rates are high, is to prepay as much as possible and avoid much of the interest.. Also, when you rent, you DO pay property taxes! It is built into the rent payment! A lot of otherwise smart people don't realize this. With inflation over the course of 10 years it will be much higher. Over the total course of the 30 year loan you will pay over $186K in interest. Again, it will be much higher in 30 years when accounting for inflation.

With inflation, $100k in 1991 is equivalent to $188k now so much of your home value did not necessarily go up. It is just a dollar is worth less now. So if you calculate for inflation, taxes paid, and interest paid, your home value would have to quadruple at the end of the 30 year note just for you to break even.

So if you financed a $100k house in 1991 at the average 9% interest, you would have paid $189k in interest. Add that to the $100k you paid and you get $289k total not including taxes. With inflation, that is the equivalent of $544k from 1991 to now. So even quadrupling the houses value will still not put you ahead.This makes no sense at all. Your loan balance does not increase with inflation. Inflation with a home loan is your friend. You pay the loan off with cheaper dollars.

I am pretty much done here. It is a rare person that will make an financial argument against home ownership....

As always, your money, your choice.

[valhalla360]

I know there will be people who come back and disagree but when you get 10-15yrs out, don't count on getting a $10k premium on resale for a diesel.

Last couple times we were shopping, there was little if any premium at that price point.

[ShinerBock]

Huntindog wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

mich800 wrote:

IdaD wrote:
An HD truck in OP's scenario is a no brainer. It's literally more truck for the same money, and it not only works better for the current trailer but also allows for more flexibility moving forward - and the compromises in moving from a 1/2 ton to a SRW HD are minimal. I think the compromises involved in moving from a SRW HD to a dually are much more significant.

I wouldn't say it is a no brainer. Everyone has a list of priority items. If a 1/2 ton that falls into the category of towing trailer and meets the other criteria better than a larger truck why should they make a purchase that falls short in the other areas.

And I don't subscribe to the mantra here to over purchase as you may upgrade later. If that is the case everyone would purchase a 4+ bedroom home as their first house because who knows if you will have kids or the parents/in-laws need to move in later. And switching trucks is surely easier than switching houses.

Houses appreciate. Trucks depreciate.
Big difference.

While this is true, unless you paid cash, you are still likely to loose your anus because you are paying nothing but interest for the first 10 years which puts you in the negative in the grand scheme of things.

That would only be true, if you had a free place to live for those 10 years.
For us mortals, a house payment took/takes the place of a rent payment.

Same goes with a truck payment unless you get that for free.

I am about to buy my 5th truck. None of them had payments.... Point is, it is possible for many to get in that position, if they manage their finances early on.

It is MUCH more difficult to do this with a house.

At any rate, if you make payments on both a house and a truck, you will pay interest on each. The house payment is a better financial move. Houses generally increase in value. Trucks generally decrease.

The house I am in now has more than quadrupled, since 1991 when I bought it. For most of that time, the payments were less than rent.
That makes the interest I paid a moot point. That is what apreciation does

If I were to have made truck payments on 5 trucks over that same time period.... I would not have much to show for it. In fact for much of that time, I would likely have been upside down. That is what depreciation does

I am talking short term. On a $200k financed home with a 5% interest(which is a good rate and the average was 9% in 1991), you will pay $99k in interest in 10 years of ownership on top of tens of thousands in taxes that you wouldn't pay if you rent. With inflation over the course of 10 years it will be much higher. Over the total course of the 30 year loan you will pay over $186K in interest. Again, it will be much higher in 30 years when accounting for inflation.

With inflation, $100k in 1991 is equivalent to $188k now so much of your home value did not necessarily go up. It is just a dollar is worth less now. So if you calculate for inflation, taxes paid, and interest paid, your home value would have to quadruple at the end of the 30 year note just for you to break even.

So if you financed a $100k house in 1991 at the average 9% interest, you would have paid $189k in interest. Add that to the $100k you paid and you get $289k total not including taxes. With inflation, that is the equivalent of $544k from 1991 to now. So even quadrupling the houses value will still not put you ahead.

[Huntindog]

ShinerBock wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

mich800 wrote:

IdaD wrote:
An HD truck in OP's scenario is a no brainer. It's literally more truck for the same money, and it not only works better for the current trailer but also allows for more flexibility moving forward - and the compromises in moving from a 1/2 ton to a SRW HD are minimal. I think the compromises involved in moving from a SRW HD to a dually are much more significant.

I wouldn't say it is a no brainer. Everyone has a list of priority items. If a 1/2 ton that falls into the category of towing trailer and meets the other criteria better than a larger truck why should they make a purchase that falls short in the other areas.

And I don't subscribe to the mantra here to over purchase as you may upgrade later. If that is the case everyone would purchase a 4+ bedroom home as their first house because who knows if you will have kids or the parents/in-laws need to move in later. And switching trucks is surely easier than switching houses.

Houses appreciate. Trucks depreciate.
Big difference.

While this is true, unless you paid cash, you are still likely to loose your anus because you are paying nothing but interest for the first 10 years which puts you in the negative in the grand scheme of things.

That would only be true, if you had a free place to live for those 10 years.
For us mortals, a house payment took/takes the place of a rent payment.

Same goes with a truck payment unless you get that for free.

I am about to buy my 5th truck. None of them had payments.... Point is, it is possible for many to get in that position, if they manage their finances early on.

It is MUCH more difficult to do this with a house.

At any rate, if you make payments on both a house and a truck, you will pay interest on each. The house payment is a better financial move. Houses generally increase in value. Trucks generally decrease.

The house I am in now has more than quadrupled, since 1991 when I bought it. For most of that time, the payments were less than rent.
That makes the interest I paid a moot point. That is what apreciation does

If I were to have made truck payments on 5 trucks over that same time period.... I would not have much to show for it. In fact for much of that time, I would likely have been upside down. That is what depreciation does

[mich800]

Huntindog wrote:

mich800 wrote:

IdaD wrote:
An HD truck in OP's scenario is a no brainer. It's literally more truck for the same money, and it not only works better for the current trailer but also allows for more flexibility moving forward - and the compromises in moving from a 1/2 ton to a SRW HD are minimal. I think the compromises involved in moving from a SRW HD to a dually are much more significant.

I wouldn't say it is a no brainer. Everyone has a list of priority items. If a 1/2 ton that falls into the category of towing trailer and meets the other criteria better than a larger truck why should they make a purchase that falls short in the other areas.

And I don't subscribe to the mantra here to over purchase as you may upgrade later. If that is the case everyone would purchase a 4+ bedroom home as their first house because who knows if you will have kids or the parents/in-laws need to move in later. And switching trucks is surely easier than switching houses.

Houses appreciate. Trucks depreciate.
Big difference.

You are correct. The housing market is always stable and predictable. Especially over short time periods like less than 5 years.

[ShinerBock]

Huntindog wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

mich800 wrote:

IdaD wrote:
An HD truck in OP's scenario is a no brainer. It's literally more truck for the same money, and it not only works better for the current trailer but also allows for more flexibility moving forward - and the compromises in moving from a 1/2 ton to a SRW HD are minimal. I think the compromises involved in moving from a SRW HD to a dually are much more significant.

I wouldn't say it is a no brainer. Everyone has a list of priority items. If a 1/2 ton that falls into the category of towing trailer and meets the other criteria better than a larger truck why should they make a purchase that falls short in the other areas.

And I don't subscribe to the mantra here to over purchase as you may upgrade later. If that is the case everyone would purchase a 4+ bedroom home as their first house because who knows if you will have kids or the parents/in-laws need to move in later. And switching trucks is surely easier than switching houses.

Houses appreciate. Trucks depreciate.
Big difference.

While this is true, unless you paid cash, you are still likely to loose your anus because you are paying nothing but interest for the first 10 years which puts you in the negative in the grand scheme of things.

That would only be true, if you had a free place to live for those 10 years.
For us mortals, a house payment took/takes the place of a rent payment.

Same goes with a truck payment unless you get that for free.

[Huntindog]

ShinerBock wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

mich800 wrote:

IdaD wrote:
An HD truck in OP's scenario is a no brainer. It's literally more truck for the same money, and it not only works better for the current trailer but also allows for more flexibility moving forward - and the compromises in moving from a 1/2 ton to a SRW HD are minimal. I think the compromises involved in moving from a SRW HD to a dually are much more significant.

I wouldn't say it is a no brainer. Everyone has a list of priority items. If a 1/2 ton that falls into the category of towing trailer and meets the other criteria better than a larger truck why should they make a purchase that falls short in the other areas.

And I don't subscribe to the mantra here to over purchase as you may upgrade later. If that is the case everyone would purchase a 4+ bedroom home as their first house because who knows if you will have kids or the parents/in-laws need to move in later. And switching trucks is surely easier than switching houses.

Houses appreciate. Trucks depreciate.
Big difference.

While this is true, unless you paid cash, you are still likely to loose your anus because you are paying nothing but interest for the first 10 years which puts you in the negative in the grand scheme of things.

That would only be true, if you had a free place to live for those 10 years.
For us mortals, a house payment took/takes the place of a rent payment.

[ShinerBock]

Huntindog wrote:

mich800 wrote:

IdaD wrote:
An HD truck in OP's scenario is a no brainer. It's literally more truck for the same money, and it not only works better for the current trailer but also allows for more flexibility moving forward - and the compromises in moving from a 1/2 ton to a SRW HD are minimal. I think the compromises involved in moving from a SRW HD to a dually are much more significant.

I wouldn't say it is a no brainer. Everyone has a list of priority items. If a 1/2 ton that falls into the category of towing trailer and meets the other criteria better than a larger truck why should they make a purchase that falls short in the other areas.

And I don't subscribe to the mantra here to over purchase as you may upgrade later. If that is the case everyone would purchase a 4+ bedroom home as their first house because who knows if you will have kids or the parents/in-laws need to move in later. And switching trucks is surely easier than switching houses.

Houses appreciate. Trucks depreciate.
Big difference.

While this is true, unless you paid cash, you are still likely to loose your anus because you are paying nothing but interest for the first 10 years which puts you in the negative in the grand scheme of things.

[Huntindog]

IdaD wrote:
The only thing I'd throw out as an additional note on that spreadsheet is that SB is correct that there are some specific variables depending on where you live and how you do things that may move those numbers a bit. But the bottom line is, for most folks the ownership cost difference of gas versus diesel is not material. The area where there is a very material difference is performance, especially towing.

The price of admission to the diesel club is high.
But once you pay it, the cost going forward is very affordable. Diesels hold their value much better than gas. And you get to enjoy the performance as long as you opt to stay in the club.I have a 2020 on order, and was very happy with the price I am getting for my 2011, and I am NOT trading it in to the dealer.... Unless he wants to meet my written offer I have in hand.

My first diesel (2001)cost me 4000 a year over 10 years to own it. The 2011 is going to be about 2600 a year.These figures do not include maintainence.